Fanghur Rahl

The method by which one enacts the growth and refinement is not relevant to my point; the important thing is that ultimately Cultivation’s end goal is to build up and refine things. The fact that this would often require her to destroy part of it is not really relevant; even Ruin said that sometimes he had to create things in order to ultimately cause even greater destruction.

My ideas are: Objectvity/Dispassion (in between Odium and Devotion). Prudence Jealousy/Avarice Aptitude

Are Shardblades actually made of metal though, or is that just the way they appear? I certainly don't think they'd be made of any element on the periodic table.

'Serenity', now there's a cool name for a Shard. I only just noticed that suggestion now. I don't think it really fills the role my theory requires, but it still sounds really good. For the record, guys, I'm officially conceding the point about 'Apathy' not really working as a Shardic name. I still do suspect that there might be some Shard in between the two passion Shards though. 'Dispassion' or 'Objectivity' being the best candidates in my opinion, even though I think 'Objectivity' sounds really silly used as a proper noun; that's the main reason I preferred 'Apathy'.

Well the other problem I have with it is that it seems pretty clear that a Shard only has access to as much Investiture as their expanded mind directly encompasses, which presumably corresponds to a volume of space roughly as large as a solar system, since we’ve never seen a Shard directly influence anything beyond its own solar system. But even if you want to extend that several orders of magnitude, you still ultimately end up with having an infinite amount of Investiture either crammed into or at least connected to a space of finite volume. And Brandon has on more than one occasion compared investiture to energy and thermodynamics in terms of the rules governing its behaviour (minus the supernatural component of course).

Well, regardless, I still say that it makes it needlessly complicated to think of them like that, even if I granted that I’m wrong and it’s possible to meaningfully describe them as infinite. But I guess that’s just my personal opinion.

Touché. I still much prefer it to go to Sazed though.

Are they? Or is that just what your intuition would tell you? Because as I had this exact thing explained to me once, technically it isn’t twice as large, regardless of what common sense would suggest, because it’s simply undefined. Again, I’m just going on what I’ve been told, for all I know I’m completely wrong about this whole thing. I’m certainly not dogmatic about it or anything.

Admittedly, I’m far from an expert on calculus, but as I understand it, whether or not one infinity is ‘larger’ than another is entirely dependent on how you choose to analyze it; on which so-called ‘measure’ you use. But it’s only a mathematical notion, not something with any kind of actual referent in reality. For example, if two universes are spatially and temporally infinite, then regardless of whatever mathematical hocus pocus someone tries to play, neither is objectively ‘bigger’ or ‘older’ than the other. Like I said, I know very little about how calculus works, but I have listen to lectures by actual physicists that I’ve said something relatively similar to this in relation to the multiverse; maybe I’m misremembering, but that’s my understanding anyway.

That’s the problem; no matter how you twist and turn it, you still end up claiming, directly or indirectly, that one infinitely powerful Shard has more raw power than another infinitely powerful Shard, which is a contradiction in terms (as I understand it, the different types of infinities simply do not apply in this usage, since we’re talking raw power). By far the simplest way of looking at it it is to conclude that the Shards are unfathomably powerful by human standards, but not infinitely powerful. Under that assumption, all the internal inconsistencies and contrivances dissolve.

That’s my point, I don’t see why Sazed + Change-Trinity would also need Ambition, but Honor, Endowment, etc. wouldn’t. That’s the point I was responding to. I don’t see why he would also need Ambition; Sazed’s always been known for his ambition even without the Shard after all.

Yes. Preservation. Ruin had more power than Preservation because Preservation gave more of his power to give humans sentience.

I know. A Shard only has access to a finite amount of Investiture at any given moment due to the limitations of their finite minds; their minds only have a limited range of awareness. That’s why I think it’s extremely misleading to say that Shards are infinite; it’s a little like saying that I have access to infinite material, since if I went anywhere in the universe, I could use the material there while I was there. That doesn’t mean I currently am able to use the material over on Proxima Centauri b though. So if it’s true, it isn’t true in the way anyone would assume if you told them a Shard has infinite power.

I think that’s too much to ask for. lol. At any rate, none of the other Shards had any problem enacting their intents without also possessing Ambition, so I don’t really see why Sazed should be any different.

As it currently stands, as much as I hope otherwise, I think as long as he only holds Ruin and Preservation, it’s entirely possible. That’s another reason why I hope he somehow manages to acquire Cultivation as well; like I said, arguably that would ‘complete’ him.

Planning ahead isn’t really Lift’s thing; quite the opposite in fact.

@DracostarA is right, it’s a term I coined to describe the three Shards whose intents directly relate to change or the lack thereof. Ruin: regression, decay, destruction, disorder. Preservation: stasis, stagnation, stability. Cultivation: progression, growth, transformation, refinement. And I have a theory that part of the reason Sazed has problems is that the two Shards he holds are counter to his true nature and desires, which is a teacher. What do teachers do? They teach; they help people progress in their thinking; they cultivate people. That’s another reason why I think if he got Cultivation as well, it would effectively complete him. But like I said, that’s most likely just a dream.

Honestly, even though I don’t think it’s too likely, my personal hope is that eventually Cultivation will baton pass the Shard to Sazed/Harmony, because to be honest, that’s where I think it should go. Harmony currently only holds two out of three of the Shards of the change-trinity, and I think if he acquired Cultivation as well it would effectively complete him. But honestly, as much as I would like that to happen, I really don’t think that it will.

Well I guess that effectively rules out any creatio ex deo scenarios on Adonalsium's part then, otherwise no one would be able to pick up a Shard.

Plus, I’m pretty sure even a single Shardblade would be worth orders of magnitude more than what any stonemason business (or even a coalition of them for that matter) could possibly make.

That and the other problem is that Nightblood doesn't store Investiture; it uses it. Brandon has on multiple occasions compared Investiture to how energy works in the real world; 'low entropy' investiture can be used to do 'work', while 'high entropy' investiture cannot. Nightblood basically turns low entropy investiture into high entropy investiture as a means to power its destructive capabilities (I don't know if the term 'entropy' is literally applicable here, but Brandon has all but said outright that some analogous mechanics are at play).

At the time, Dalinar had no idea what Shardblades actually were; he thought they were just some kind of highly advanced magitech, not that they were the Spren of Radiants. And given that assumption, it makes sense to wonder why similar tools weren’t created for more mundane tasks as well. But it’s a false assumption, and I have a very hard time imagining that a sapient Spren would be eager to allow themselves to be used in such a way; I certainly wouldn’t if I were a Spren.

I strongly suspect that that’s exactly what is going to end up happening. My personal hunch is that it might end up being Navani, especially if Dalinar does end up becoming Honor or Unity or what-have-you. After all, a big part of Cultivation’s intent is progression and refinement, and Navani is an artifabrian; striving for progress and advancement is kinda her thing. I think the current Cultivation will ultimately either baton pass the Shard, or sacrifice herself in some way to defeat Odium and join Tanavast in the Beyond.

Honestly, I don’t see how it could work. Nightblood may have acquired his sentience by means of Investiture rather than biological structure, but ultimately he’s still just as physical as any human. That and his mind is, if anything, far less advanced than an average human. His intellect is essentially that of a fairly rudimentary (by science fiction standards at least) artificial intelligence.

Not really, it just means that there’s no such thing as a free lunch.