Oudeis

...I assume you know what my next question is going to be...

None of that is evidence. Blood does not have to be red, it can easily be translucent like the rest of it. Even if it's not chemically the same thing as human blood, it's still a kind of blood. Mentioning an injury without mentioning blood isn't uncommon in the books. Vin is constantly getting cut on arms, cheeks, all over the place, without mention of blood. When half of Kelsier's face is caved in, I don't believe they mention blood. Mistwraiths are biologically viable beings. There is, because there must be, some system for nutrients, oxygen, and waste to be moved around the body to where it has to go. It might be chemically different, but the balance of probability is that mistwraiths and kandra have blood.

...Or just a remote deadman's switch, as I said. If you don't get one signal a second, blow up.

The quote, which I will try to find, is that the spike must touch the blood during the act of donation. If the flesh heals around the spike thereafter, that's fine, but the actual act of donation requires blood. When Vin or Wax first had their ear pierced, the spike touched the blood, and the bond was formed. From that point on, mere contact with the bindpoint was enough. The metal is the focus for non-allomantic/feruchemical traits, too. An Iron Spike steals Human Strength. It's possible a "Crystal Spike" would steal a Surge, but I'm reasonably sure hemalurgy, like the other Arts of Scadrial, is and will always be centered on metal. And I'm not dismissing the idea general idea. I think a lot of the details are off, I think that there is one focus per world, rather than one focus per shard (if only because there are ten materials, and ten worlds, but sixteen shards), but I personally am behind the general idea that these are a list of all the foci. Why don't you think kandra have blood?

Quotes: Hemalurgic decay of Feruchemy: Epigraph of chapter 36 "For example, all of the original Inquisitors were givena pewter spike, which - after first being pounded through the body of a Feruchemist - gave the Inquisitor the ability to store up healing power. (Though they couldn't do so as quickly as a real Feruchemist, as per the law of hemalurgic decay.)" Decay of allomancy, as opposed to other traits: Last few paragraphs of Chapter 34 "Hemalurgy - particularly Allomantic imbues - was much more potent when one could drive the spike through the victim's heart and directly into a waiting host. That way, very little of the Allomantic ability was lost. Doing it this way - killing the Allomancer to make a spike, then traveling somewhere else to place it - would grant the new host far less power." Thought: Does this mean Feruchemy does not drain as fast as Allomancy does? Perhaps because Allomancy is purely of Preservation while Feruchemy is a balance? Sidenote: perhaps "host" instead of beneficiary? Koloss re-use of spikes (I know you've already stipulated to this but I'd like to have all our ducks in a row in case someone wants the reference) First, epigraph of chapter 40. "Originally, we assumed that a koloss was a combination of two people into one. That was wrong. Koloss are not the melding of two people, but five, as evidenced by the four spikes needed to make them. Not five bodies, of course, but five souls. Each pair of spikes grants what the kandra would call the Blessing of Potency. However, each spike also distorts the koloss body a little more, making it increasingy inhuman. Such is the cost of Hemalurgy." At first this seems non-specific, talking about koloss in general, rather than talking about what specifically was happening with Human. However, note at the start where it says, "we assumed". I believe this implies that Elend and Vin and all those people knew someone would have to die to power up the spikes before they could be used, which they couldn't have known if Human was only going to reuse the spikes, without recharging them. From later that same chapter: "The other day, Vin finally got one of them to show her how to make new koloss. From what he did, and from what he's said since, we believe that he was going to try to combine two men into one. That would make a creature with the strength of two men, but the mind of neither." Further evidence, though I admit not incontrovertible, that the intention was to recharge the spikes. Kay, I believe those are all the quotes I have promised/been asked for. Please let me know if I'm skipping any. Onto my personal theory as to the model of hemalurgy, which touches on decay. It is based on very roundabout evidence. Okay. I believe there are three stages to the life cycle of a hemalurgic spike. In its first stage, it is an unInvested spike of metal, like an empty metalmind. It's simply a potential spike. Then, it gets charged, and enters into the second stage. It is in the second stage where decay occurs. The spike itself now contains a trait, but is not yet attuned to a host. (Yeah I'm jumping the gun and using Host instead of Beneficiary.) This imbalance in the spike is when decay occurs. The third stage is when the spike has been paired to a host. I personally believe this part is important, though it's the weakest part of a largely unsupported theory. It does, however, explain some things that have confused people up until now. Next, I will give an example. After this, I will explain some of my underlying thoughts and principles. Vin's hemalurgic spike. At first, it was a bronze earring. Stage one. Then, Vin's mom used it to slaughter her other daughter. Messily. Man, imagine what you'd have to do to a baby to pierce its heart with an earring, and have the baby be alive until that moment... on second thought, don't imagine that. I did and now I feel nauseous. Moving on. The spike is now Stage 2. It is charged, but already decaying. Within minutes, the mom has pierced Vin's ear. Stage three. The spike is now paired to Vin, and the decay stops. This explains why she could leave the spike outside of her body for years, while her bronze would still be almost twice as strong as normal. The spike is now stable, and does not lose any more power. Again, only a theory. Now. Onto the principles. I'm trying to find parallels between my theoretical model and allomancy, and here's what I've got. When in the Well, Vin had to get rid of her earring. We now know this was because it was a hemalurgic spike. And yet, the spike could still be used again afterwards. She didn't have access to its power for a period of time, and she didn't "register" as a hemalurgist to the power at the well, yet whatever bond she had with the spike was unbroken. I'm likening this to a vial of metal sitting on the table next to a misting with no reserves. Let's say a Soother. The Soother has a spiritweb modified in such a way that allows him to use the vial as a catalyst to start an Investiture. However, at the moment, he has no direct access to this power; he'd have to drink the vial to get the reserve. Additionally, he cannot be detected as an allomancer by a Seeker, as he's giving off no bronzepulses. This is how I see Vin, if she were sitting next to a table, and the earring were on the table. The act of becoming a hemalurgic host, the change from stage 2 to stage 3, modified her spiritweb just as it modified the spiritweb scrap trapped in the hemalurgic spike. Her spiritweb now has a bit in it, a round hole perfectly sized for a round peg, just as the Soother has the right spiritweb to use brass, even when he has no brass in his system. Additionally, even though her spiritweb has been changed in a way that allows her to access the power in the spike, unless the spike is inside of her, things like the Mist and the Well react to her as though she weren't a hemalurgist at all, just as a Seeker cannot tell that you have the spiritweb of a Soother, only whether or not you're currently burning brass. So. Put it all together, and what have you got. First, you have an empty spike, a potential donor, a potential hemalurgist, and a potential host. (these don't necessarily have to be three separate people) Second, the act of charging. The hemalurgist places the spike inside of the donor. A part of the Donor's spiritweb is removed, modified, and placed in the spike. The donor has now undergone a series of changes. First, he's been stabbed, possibly in the heart, with a length of metal. This is typically fatal. Second, his very soul has had a chunk ripped out of it. We have no idea what that entails, as the spiritual realm is the least understood of the three. Within the spike, now, there is a fraction of a spiritweb. I believe it is modified in some manner, but I'm not certain how. I do suspect, however, that it's only half the change, and that at this point the charge is vulernable to decay. Third, we now have a spike in Stage 2, a hemalurgist holding a spike, and a probably-dead donor. If he's not dead, he's both physically and spiritually wounded. In my opinion, extremely wounded. And we have a Host, who is as yet unmodified. Fourth is the act of donation. The hemalurgist drives the spike into a bindpoint on the host. More changes occur. The spiritweb of the host is now modified. This might reflect a physical change in the person, such as a reformed brain or heart that allows the organ to function despite a length of metal in it. Additionally, I believe something is changed in the host's spiritweb that allows them to access the power of the spike. Lastly, the spiritweb inside the spike is now also changed. It is attuned to the host, and I believe this attunement seals off the charge inside, protecting it from hemalurgic decay even if the spike is later removed from the body. Fifth is the final, stable scenario. The hemalurgist himself may remain wholly unchanged. The donor remains physically and spiritually wounded. The host now possesses a modified spiritweb with the ability to access the power of this specific spike, as long as it's touching the proper bindpoint, the same way a Soother has a spiritweb with the ability to access the power of a specific metal, as long as it's within the allomancer's stomach (or elsewhere, I know it's possible to burn a metal that is simply in your body, but let's stick with the basics we all know and understand.) There are many, many things still unexplained by this. Re-use of spikes is a big one. Can a spike be reused before the host's death? How is the host affected if the spike is recharged before his death? At which point in the process, and by what method, are specific traits transferred (i.e. if a pewter spike takes the power from a feruchemist, when is specifically gold chosen as the power transfered)? However, this is my proto-hypothesis, for now, until I read more and ask some questions at the next signing. Outlook seems to be that Shadows of Self will at least touch on hemalurgy. Aaaaaand... I see in the time this post has taken me, someone already found the quote. And already mentioned some of what I've brought up here. Moogle: Per Kurk's link above to gold feruchemy reused via pewter spikes, I think that passing it from host to host also involves decay. Perhaps less, but that's not really the point. In this case, Ruin just wanted a spike in Penrod. Granting him a power wouldn't have advanced Ruin's cause. Were there ways Ruin could have kept the power from decaying? Yes. Did Ruin want to do this? Not really, no. Just like he could have taken direct control of all the kandra and koloss on day of being freed, but chose not to.

I concur with KillerSquirrel. It's shown that Elantrians do heal faster on their own than most people do, but not instantaneously. Living longer than most people wouldn't be terribly difficult when your organs tend to be healthier, you recover from injury, and presumably resist disease better, let alone constant access to plentiful food and near-perfect medical care. Moogle, I see you trying to sneak in your personal supposition that all Investiture slows the aging process. I've read your theory and while technically plausible, it's almost entirely unsupported and is basically a stab in the dark. If you've gotten new WoB or evidence from the text since last time we've discussed this, please link me to the latest discussion and I will concede the point.

First, so many kudos for an incredible methodology. I am pleased and terribly proud of it, and I hope your system does become an adopted standard. Second, I do have a minor clarification. "When as spike is reused it is also important to get it back into a body as quickly as possible (as seen by Human rushing to make a new Koloss as quickly as he could with the spike)." From a later epigraph in the book, and from something Elend says a few chapters later, the spikes were not going to be re-used as-is, he was going to kill four wounded soldiers to recharge them, then use them on a fifth person to turn him into a koloss. ((This space reserved for in a few hours when I will not be rushing to get to work, and will have time to find the quotes)). The reusing of spikes is something of especial interest to me these days. That I know of, we only have two instances where we even suspect that a spike was re-used between recipients, without being recharged first. The first is Wax's earring. The second is the pewter spike which granted gold feruchemy to some Inquisitors. Very little is known about both, and I think it's worth noting that in both cases, there was interaction at some point with someone who was currently holding the raw power of a Shard, so it's possible they are both idiosyncratic cases of what I call "Direct Shardic Intervention" (DSI). In a few hours, when I catch a beat at work, I will return and find those quotes. If I'm still the most recent post, I'll modify this post to include my own personal theory about the model of hemalurgic theft, decay, and bonding. Lastly, some people wonder about how decay works on feruchemical powers. There is a brief mention in one of the epigraphs in Hero of Ages, which I will also find when I've got a moment and post here. In brief, it implies that the decay limits the speed with which the hemalurgist can draw out health. The quote is far less specific and helpful than I could wish. p.s. As part of your methodology, can we please all agree on some terms? Up to three parties are involved in hemalurgy. There is the man holding the spike. There is the person whom the trait is removed from. There is the person the trait is given to. The person the trait is removed from, it seems obvious to refer to this person as "victim". One of the other two should be called "hemalurgist", but which one? The person benefiting from hemalurgy, or the person who actually performs it? And what, then, do we call the other person?

In a world where cadmium was a thing, people making bombs would probably adapt and just put a simple backup deadman's switch in almost every bomb, or some other delicate thing that would unbalance when manipulated temporally, that would simply set the bomb off as soon as it was out of phase with the rest of the world.

Could Elend, with duralumin, Push on aluminum? What about Vin, when she drew in the Mists the first time, to Push on Rashek's bracers? EDIT: Could the Inquisitors not see aluminum? If there was a box filled with aluminum dust, would they see just an empty box? Or would they be able to track a hole in their "vision"? If Vin had realized no allomantic lines traveled to aluminum, could she have made an aluminum knife and thrown it at Inquisitors?

1. Hemalurgy is of Ruin, so his focus is Metal, just like Preservation. I believe, and I believe it's the general consensus, that every world has a focus, not every Shard. 2. Why does Bloodsealing have nothing to do with the Dor? Where, then, does it get its power from? 3. You ask why not shadow, spirit, or blood... Mr. Sanderson tries to follow the laws of physics when he can. Bones are already a physical object, something constructed in a way to provide bipedal movement and arms for attacking. Animating it would, theoretically, be easier than trying to provide the power to force blood or spirit into a physical, solid, specific shape which could be sharpened and used as a weapon. Everything else you say is even more speculative. All this aside, you may have a good underlying point. There are 10 Shardworlds, and according to the Stormlight Ars Arcana, 10 essenses. We know the focus on Scadrial is metal, and it seems very likely that the focus on Roshar is Crystal, and the case could be made for the Nalthian Focus to be air. I think we don't know enough about Sel to say what the focus is there, though I'm gonna browse this list and get ideas. It would be very, very interesting if the focus on every Shardworld were one of the 10 Essences of Roshar... has this idea been expressed elsewhere?

...Sort of a one-trick pony, though, because either he does, in fact, dismantle the bomb, in which case there was never any danger and he simply wasted time, or he doesn't dismantle the bomb, in which case his power only saved people once. This also assumes every bomb is a timer bomb. If the bomb were on a wireless deadman's switch, putting it out of phase with the trigger would probably set it off immediately.

I'd be surprised if there are metals that store "opposites" like that... it seems like for a trait to be feruchemable, it has to exist on a single axis, with one obvious positive end and one obvious negative one, and you have to "store" the positive. Like, you can already "store" weight, so I'd be surprised if there were a metal that let you "store" lightness. So, I wouldn't expect there to be a metal that lets you "store" injury, so if you get hurt you just store the broken arm in an unobtainiummind, then throw it away and be healed forever. Maybe godmetals?

This new year, by the Jewish calendar, is 5775! That's a palindrome! Happy Roshar Hashanah!

I heard someone say that about Kelsier once. "Oh, I'm not God. God was my butler."

Willshaper. I honestly couldn't quite tell you why. We know next to nothing about them, and have literally the one faintest hint what Cohesion does. But they love to explore, and it's just a feeling I get.

I feel like we have the answer to this question and it is Yes, though I cannot now recall where I heard this or why I think it...

Can you Awaken that which pierces a human body ? Could Vasher Awaken TenSoon's bones ?

If Sazed is the Hero of Ages because he is a champion to guard over mankind for all of time, does that make Vin the Hero of A Couple of Hours?

Opacity.

There's a game called Ingress. Long story short, otherworldly beings allow humans to perform fantastic feats by absorbing glowing energy which appears naturally in the world around you. Even though this sounds NOTHING like Stormlight Archive, I've found that most of the Orders have their usernames taken. Basically I sorta wonder if anyone who plays that game reads this forum, and if the other Orders want to acknowledge each other. I just started playing, and I managed to snag Elsecaller. I've met Truthwatcher and Edgedancer, and I know there's at least a Windrunner and Willshaper. Anyone out there?

Okay. I'm going to remain healthily skeptical until I see a WoB, but I acknowledge that this is a perfectly valid theory.

Were they non-sentient beforehand? They weren't terribly clever, but they were definitely self-aware.

It's only assumed that Wax's earring lets him burn Pewter, fueled by the Mists. There's very little in the way of evidence, this is at best a hypothesis. Also, there's no reason to assume any specific rate of decay; the curve could simply be much steeper than you assume, and then most of the problems with the math are gone. Finally, a thought occurred to me today. We know Wax's earring came from an Inquisitor's spike. Do we actually expressly know it was never re-charged? For all we know, two days before it was given to him, it was used to kill someone and steal the hemalurgic charge, or Harmony could simply have used the half of him that is Ruin and charged it for free. Or... this literally just occurred to me, so I haven't yet explored it to see if it makes sense, so it's a total brainstorm. There's a WoB that Sazed is doing "something" with all the extra Investiture of Ruin, to match the Investiture Preservation invested in humanity. Maybe it's this? Maybe he put all that extra energy into the hemalurgic spikes, so Pathian earrings aren't like typical hemalurgic spikes, they're being directly fueled by Ruin's power? It sorta fits the flavor, and it's a safe enough place to leave all that extra power without a lot of risk of it being evil. One of the biggest flaws that immediately occurs to me; while it's difficult to measure units of Divine Power, I still feel like it would take a LOT of charged spikes, even assuming each spike has more Investiture than the average human, to balance all the energy that must be invested in all of humanity. I state again, this is a brainstorm that literally occurred to me since I started typing this reply, so I gratefully welcome any and all challenges that might help me refine my theory, or put it to bed entirely.

I sorta noticed all the Hoids, but just sorta assumed it was just a name he liked so re-used, I didn't even consider that it was all the same man. I went to his website to see what other books he had (I'd read at this point the Mistborn trilogy, and Elantris), and he had a link to this place. Mind. Blown.

...randomly selected numbers are random. The general point is, I think, still relevant. Earring: That's more-or-less exactly my personal theory, though I can think of no evidence for that. Basically the idea that there are three stages to a hemalurgic spike. Stage one is simply a blank spike with no charge. Stage two is after it's slain someone and gained a charge, but before this charge has been given to someone else. It's during this phase that it constantly loses power. The third stage, then, is after the spike has bonded to someone. It only grants the benefit when piercing flesh, but even when unattached, it remains "bonded" and the charge is stable. There are a few flaws with the idea, or at least a few questions remaining. Wax's earring is made from bits of an Inquisitor's spike, meaning he's at least the second person it ever bonded. Does that mean a single Charged spike can bond twice? Does it ever return to Stage 2? Does the first person have to die before the spike can re-bond to someone else? If Elend had taken Vin's earring, while she was still alive, and stuck it in exactly the right spot of his own ear, would he have gained double-bronze? Tangent: This makes me wonder something else. We know Wax's earring is from an Inquisitor spike. Does that necessarily mean it was never re-charged? After the Inquisitor died, and it was broken into pieces, it could still have been used to kill someone else and re-charge. It's been debated and never resolved how exactly the Koloss worked. The text in the books is very unclear. Either the same iron spikes, with their initial charge, were used to turn a new person into a Koloss, or the spikes were all recharged by slaying people and THEN used to make a new Koloss. This might be a good question for Brandon, as it's difficult to see why the answer would possibly be secret, and yet it's very unclear, and might tell us a lot about hemalurgy if we know the answer. Wax's earring being recently re-charged would answer a few of the questions people have had about how it has kept a charge for 300 years... EDIT: Other random thoughts. I think I want to retract my phrasing, and not call the spike "bonded." I'm trying to liken it more to allomancy. There are certain things that react to Vin in certain ways because she's using hemalurgy, like the Mists and the Well, which react differently if she simply removes the earring. If the spike were "bonded" you'd imagine there'd be some residual trace of Ruin that would make her still scan as a "hemalurgist". I'm thinking of bronzepulses. You cannot tell that someone is a Misting, only that they are currently burning. So, basically, Vin, with her earring on the table next to her, is like Vin, with no metals, with a vial of bronze on the table next to her. Her spiritweb is still that of an allomancer. Unlike most people, she has the potential to take that vial and use it, at which point bronze could detect her. She has the potential to read as an Allomancer, but it's inactive, the way your computer is protected from power surges if you leave it turned off. It can't do anything, but that's a form of safety, itself. I think that, similarly, when the earring is on the table, her spiritweb still has the potential for hemalurgy. The act of spiking adjusted them both. It manipulated the Spike to "close off" the charge, stabilize it, bring the spike to Phase 3. It also manipulated Vin's spiritweb to make her the lock that fits the key, but without the spike it's a static, stable change, like a misting with no metal. I dunno. Just one man's opinion.