Jump to content

Ripheus23

Members
 View Profile  See their activity

  • Posts

    1318

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won

    2

 Content Type 

Everything posted by Ripheus23

  1. Ripheus23
    @Fractalfire Jasnah had the backing of Dalinar and Navani beforehand, this is all happening when there is environmental devastation and technological development going on that has almost never happened in IRL political history of a similar type, and even for all that we're shown very dramatically how her attempt to impose her worldview failed in Thaylenah at the end. It wouldn't have been hard for masses of Alethi to look at Jasnah and her reputation of heresy, alongside sweeping revelations from all sides about how humankind was the original invader and the Voidbringers were real and the Knights were now good again and so on and on: it wouldn't have hard to know all that and think, even if many of them were still "believers," that she was posing as a heretic for a greater good, or had been positioned by the Almighty to repent when she realized all her successes she owed to him, or whatever so many think when they think things like this about heretics and the like. Politics is titanically unstable, so unstable that there are hardly any nontrivial laws we know about it, nor could we when it depends on the fluctuations of indeterministic free will among millions/billions of people. I'm sure it would be easy to find a real-world case where, "against all odds," some kind of political transformation happened that "no one foresaw" or whatever. I mean, take Constantine's turning point, for example. That's even an ironic example because in the one case, it's the new believer who inaugurates the huge, weird political changes, while on Roshar it's the unbeliever. But so still, I bet that's not even the only possible case, I bet if you look into the lore of Arabic, Persian, Korean, and Chinese history (among others) you'll find various unusual kinds of shifts that have happened. And it's not like we're shown Jasnah successfully maintaining her new freedom-loving order very well or for a long time, the whole frickin' planet gets overtaken by the most anti-freedom government possible, one with a literal god of hell at the apex of the hierarchy, and whatever Jasnah was managing was rather small-scale, all things considered, so for the smidgen of time that she did this, it could have persisted to an okay extent. Like, aren't a lot of the Alethi in the camps, or Urithiru, or other places where they can be managed to an okay extent? And I want to iterate, common Alethi-in-exile aren't going to look at their queen and nowadays think, "There goes the heretic," but, "There goes someone who is working on a day-to-day basis with every being I recognize as either an angel or a god, using powers that I think only angels or gods have," the idea of her being a heretic will have transmuted into some mental background noise. We see this IRL when many people in my land right now seem to think that a certain political leader is working for God despite saying and doing multiple lifetimes' worth of things to the contrary. Another good historical analogy: Japan at the end of WW2. They just had a genocidal empire burn and melt entire cities, including by using the most powerful kind of weaponry in history at that point, yet the emperor was able to command everyone to just settle down, accept the occupation, and with that not only war crimes tribunals that saw executed the old leaders of the realm (besides the emperor, of course) but also a socioeconomic restructuring including, for example, an enormous impetus/compulsion towards democratization.
  2. Ripheus23
    There might be a clue somewhere in the Wikipedia entry on the number. They mention an incidental connection to the Star of David pattern, as well as that it's "reversible" in that 73 is also prime or something.
  3. Ripheus23
    I think that the gas giants might show up as just little beads in Shadesmar.
  4. Ripheus23
    We got some symmetry out of the ketek idea for the book titles. This last one throws it off a little, for me, but makes me wonder then about the back half titles. And then other structural stuff, what about that? I guess some of it wouldn't necessarily work right: having book 6 be the same number of parts as book 5, or making book 10 into ten parts, IDK... The epilogues were about Wit, the meta-prologue was the abandoning of the Oathpact, the recurring prologues were about Gavilar's death. One way to mirror Gavilar's death would be in Navani's awakening. Have this be 6 years after Retribution's Ascension, so 4 years before the back half starts, so "FOUR YEARS AGO" becomes a key flashback heading. Do it from Navani's POV in book 6, to emulate how 5 gave us Gavilar's perspective on his own death (so: it starts out in the Spiritual Realm, where her POV is before she wakes up). Go in some kind of analogy-reverse through to the POV of the person who awakens Navani, to mirror the case of WoK showing the prologue scene from the POV of Gavilar's killer. Having one of the POVs be the Sibling's would be interesting, and I wonder whether they could be the one to awaken Navani? But it could be any number of people, even someone we've not been shown yet. Maybe it could even be Sylphrena who does this, in conjunction with the Sibling, with Sylphrena capitalizing on her status as the Ancient Daughter and possible new oath-accepting spren to be for the Sibling what the Stormfather was before. Depending on how it was handled, what about the scene of the previous Azish emperor's assassination by Szeth? Sanderson could think to highlight how the non-Alethi domains really are just as important to the flow of the story/history, maybe by showing that just like how in the East everyone was up in arms about Gavilar getting killed, there was something about the other emperor's demise that was important on the conspiratorial level too (or whatever). Part of Lift's introduction, and Yanagawn's, is then augmented, etc. I mean, they do worship Jezrien there, and think about what Kaladin and Sylphrena now are. So, Kaladin's true godhood, if it comes to that, could be underscored by an exploration of Azish culture. (E.g. suppose that there is a moment for Kaladin in relation to the Shards, similar to Adolin's miracle/outcome re: his weakness in the context of new Radiants: a moment where Kaladin attains power like unto a Shard's, but without taking up a Shard. For example, depending on what Adonalsium left behind in the appropriate way, then if Kaladin can command the Wind with a certain degree of glory, maybe he can be as powerful as a Shard, without taking up a Shard. Maybe the similarity between "Adolin" and "Adonalsium" is even somehow Spiritually relevant to all this ) Also, will it not be the Sleepless talking on the backs of the books anymore? If not, then who? Maybe the Sleepless will have Wit's role in the epilogues now, and Wit will switch places with them (to symbolize how much he is "outside of" Roshar now).
  5. Ripheus23
    But I mean that if he could go there, he wouldn't need the visions at all, either. There were obvious risks in going to the SR, but under the elaborate and impossible-to-navigate circumstances at that point, something would have been risky about giving him visions, too. More importantly, Mishram was trapped in the SR so there had to be a way to get to the point where they found her. I don't remember if Dalinar and Navani were thinking about that at all, like had they even been told??? but Cultivation had to allow Shallan to get to the SR, along with Rlain and Renarin, to free Mishram. They wouldn't have been able to get to the SR if not for two Bondsmiths working together, along with Hoid's help, etc., yeah? And Cultivation would've known all that? And wanted Mishram to be set free, after all? Or, on some level, she knew that would help.
  6. Ripheus23
    Hmm... So, maybe the Scadrians have a long-term interest in Aviar because of Mraize/the Ghostbloods/Autonomy, but the Rosharans have their own long-term interest because of Lift? Otherwise, we would suppose that a Rosharan faction noticed that a Scadrian one was involved on First of the Sun and tried to intervene, but why? Why would Rosharans have a mission in the interplanetary conflict, where they sent a team/resources to FotS? I guess it could be like micro-managing of smaller nations in geopolitics, though. I guess I'm gonna weigh my opinion towards Lift doing a miracle involving Aviar that makes Rosharans keen on finding out, one day, where those are from. She's got this whole medley of special powers that is going to be put to a lot of tests in the back half, so having one invoke Aviar powers as a key aspect seems possible. During the time until the Heralds return, she might have a chance to be a powerful symbol of healing and resistance to Retribution's tyranny, too, then. So maybe common people will be saved by her using Aviar power in a precise way, like she can engage with the oracular magic to maneuver a delicate situation or something, and it will become common knowledge that Lift used the power of a strange bird to save the day, etc.
  7. Ripheus23
    Unless he ends up in like Crystal-eyed Kelsier mode, maybe he would be more a more symbolic presence? Or did W&T say that Retribution fully incarnated the Cognitive Shadow or whatever? If there's supposed to be some symmetry when it comes to scenes from the front half, in the back half, I wonder about there being a major scene of some kind where the Blackthorn image resonates, on some level, with what Dalinar did in OB? So, something in book 8, I mean. But like at the beginning of OB, if it's that much mirrored? For example, if they had to go to the Spiritual Realm again, to chat with Nohadon for some lore/clues again or something, maybe the shadow would intervene and mess up the vision, like by killing Nohadon. Maybe the peculiar aspect of visions of Nohadon would continue into the future beforehand, but as a build-up to a scene where the Blackthorn takes this comfort from the protagonists.* Or if there was a Stormfather symmetry going on, maybe it would be in that the Blackthorn could impose/manipulate Spiritual visions, on some people some of the time. I mean, Dalinar and Navani's wedding was early in OB, was a big scene, the Stormfather officiated and all that. So, we'll need a Navani awakening scene of some kind, could even be the recurring prologue scene (if there is one of those), and the Blackthorn interfering could be dramatic. Like maybe Retribution sends the being to try to trick or be cruel to Navani, as a tactic in dealing with the resistance of the Tower and the Sibling, etc. *EDIT: reasoning: why/how did Odium zap Dalinar's copy of WoK during the OB battle? For some reason, that scene has always/since seemed to have some esoteric value, in my eyes. But so by killing the oracle of Nohadon in the Spiritual Realm, symbolically, the Blackthorn would recapitulate Odium's destruction of Dalinar's copy of the book that Nohadon wrote.
  8. Ripheus23

    Ah, well, if Taln is the Herald of War, then per the theme of War as it will unfold in the back half, hmm... There's probably/maybe something to the matter, but I'll be damned if I know what that is.

    Maybe the idea will be to expand the principle of the original Oathpact as reflected in the way Honor had sealed Odium on Braize in an important way. But instead of doing something lunatic like inducing nuclear fusion in one of the gas giants to create a new star for Retribution to over-Invest in, the idea will be to map the shadow of Retribution's Spiritual power, manifested in the duality of the Heralds and the Unmade in concerto, into nine of the outer planets, so Taln's exempted (in honor of him never breaking). That is, Retribution will be re-sealed not on Braize, but in nine of the outer giant planets.

    Other options, though, hmm... I'd assume most that Jes would be the one certainly large enough to be able to be turned into a star. Like, if it was the crazy idea I thought of, about ramming Braize into a gas giant, I'd pick Jes to be the one. But now I don't totally like that image, because it would be like a metaphor for Kaladin killing himself, even if it was also like a metaphor for Kaladin Ascending or some other dramatic thing.

    Or maybe Nale's planet is, indeed, great enough. Maybe this was something deeply known, even: it was long known to Honor that Jezrien's and Nale's worlds could be turned into stars, with whatever other significance this would imply. Maybe theirs and theirs only were such candidates. So not even Ishar's world, definitely not Taln's?

    ... and maybe Roshar/the inner worlds will become a Hidden Elf Village protected from the meddling of all the Shards whatsoever at that point. Like, whatever becomes of the rest of the cosmere, or almost whatever goes thusly, Roshar will (probably) be safe, afterwards. What Taravangian wanted for Kharbranth, what Urithiru and Azimir got, will become the motif of all Roshar as such.

    1. Ripheus23

      Ripheus23

      Maybe Kaladin would face a certain dilemma in the back half: he and Nale learn that they can arrange things so that their outer worlds turn into stars, which will be one thing they might be willing to try to stop Retribution. But Kaladin and Co. will also know that there might be a chance of getting Retribution to Invest, not in one star, but in nine of the outer giants. So the first option would have a higher chance of success but at an immense cost in sheer destructiveness, maybe not close enough to any life forms to be morally questionable on that level, but still in a way that would disturb the order of the cosmere on some deep level.

      And the second option would be more pure-hearted, so to say, except infinitely more difficult to execute correctly. The whole ploy of bonding with the Unmade to balance the power of the Honorblades and the Oathpact with the character of the Unmade as a shadow of Retribution's unity, so then to divest from Retribution unto nine of the outer worlds, would be very hard to achieve, or very complex or something like that...

    2. Ripheus23

      Ripheus23

      OR, more dramatically, hmm...

      Suppose each Unmade was somehow correlated with the Spiritual desecration of an outer planet, by the breaking of the Heralds in the time before the Unmade. Like, the more they broke, the more desecrated their planet became, until finally an Unmade could be summoned from the Spiritual abyss corresponding to those broken worlds and their Heralds. Something like that. Right off the bat, then, which planet corresponds to Mishram?

      Let's suppose, for apparently almost no reason whatsoever, that the four moons of Roshar correspond to four of the outer giants. One represents an outer giant that is no longer in the equation in the same way as the others, kind of like how one of the Dawnshards "isn't like the others." So, Taln's again, I guess. Let's guess that Salas goes with Ash/Shash and Nomon with Nale? Then Mishim goes with... hmm...

      So Mishram wasn't the one the Radiants of old feared the most, reportedly, but that was Sja-anat, yeah? So maybe Mishram was born from the desecration of Ishi, the outermost giant. Which one came from Jezrien's breaking? I guess I'd be theorizing that that's where Yelig-nar "came from." I'd map from my theory about Heralds and Unmade pairings to a theory of Herald/Unmade and planet pairings. Hmm...

      This would also have to do with the level of mind/personhood of the Unmade, then? Forget the size of the outer planet in question, or even the external mass, focus on the density. The denser of those would be the ones symbolizing the Unmade with greater mental powers/presence. Ishi would be the densest, then, so Mishram would be the most intelligent, etc.

      Anyway, so, to be drastic, maybe what Kaladin and Nale would decide would be: we do have to turn our planets into stars, both of us do that is, and only both stars with seven other outer giants will have enough Physical mass/energy to subdue Retribution in the way that Braize was used to bind Odium before. Or, the only way to make a star is by merging Kaladin and Nale's planets, so there'd be one star and the seven outer giants, so only eight planets figuring in Retribution's binding. (I could see some logic to this: depending on the mathematical specifics of the number 4 in the patterning of Adonalsium and the Shards, having an 8-fold super-magical structure established might be a good numerological way to bind a di-Shard.)

  9. Ripheus23
    Might there be some way to reach out to the Wind on the outer, greater planets, at least? I mean, aren't real gas giants really windy? From the Wikipedia entry on gas giants: What if the Godforge has something special to do with the outer planets? The closest outer giant, to Roshar, is Jes, which presumably corresponds somehow to Jezrien, so also now Kaladin. So, the outer giant of wind par excellence. Let's say, it's not the midpoint of the whole sequence of planets, that's more like a pair of the other giants. But it's also an intermediary/transition point, in the sequence. Roshar is the midpoint of the inner planets, yeah? So, let's say Ashyn has unusual gravitational/atmospheric phenomena due to its proximity to the sun, Roshar has three moons (and used to have four) with all the tidal consequences of that and is also a midpoint world in a way, but so there's something about the exact position of Jes relative to Roshar that is a gravitational-turbulence factor in the highstorm? At least maybe historically, like an effluence from Jes, in ancient times, intersected Roshar's atmosphere at the right time, at the right angle, helped energize the initial highstorm sequence? Also Braize gets a unique storm, being the other transition-point planet in the meta-type sequence of all the planets. Maybe Jes is the windiest of the outer giants? If that solar system is like Earth's, Jes would be the largest of the outer giants. Jezrien was given to be the "King" of the Heralds, and we stan our tall king Kaladin, but so here's some more info from Wikipedia: In Dante's Paradiso, Jupiter is identified as the Sphere of Justice. In Latin-Hellenic mythology, Jupiter was the counterpart of Zeus, the highest god in the standing system. Here's an interesting thing I just found in Wikipedia about that: So anyway, let's say that Jes is a major factor, directly and indirectly, in the deep background lore of the highstorm and the Everstorm. So could there be a way to draw a new storm from Jes and to Roshar? At/through the Godforge? Or maybe the Godforge is where, in the Cognitive Realm, the bead of Ishi swims. Like, Sylphrena and Co. (or whoever) have to go find that bead, to Connect aright then to Jes, etc. Or they could find beads for all ten outer giants? I mean, if they did, maybe they could draw power from the storms on all the giants. Make ten new highstorms (one for each Herald) around the core of the Everstorm, or overlapping, or whatever. EDIT: then, assume/guess that Saturn corresponds to Nale, and the grand tack hypothesis could be adapted allegorically to the relationship between Jezrien and Nale, and between the Windrunners and the Skybreakers. I.e. Jezrien/the Windrunners would have their "authority" displayed in the allegory, but we would also have an image of why Nale and his Order were so resolutely confident/committed, because on the level of sheer power they are indeed not so far from Jezrien and his Order, just as Saturn isn't so terribly much smaller than Jupiter, after all. (But unfortunately, there is no canonical lore I'm familiar with, describing the actual sizes of all the Rosharan planets ) EDIT 2: wait a storming minute, what if this all has to do with how the Unmade came to be? Like, for example, a lost little creationspren happens upon the bead of one of the outer giants, Rayse/Odium reached through the pre-Everstorm energies on that gas giant, and through the bead, into the creationspren, making it into Re-Shephir? And so on and on, like, except for maybe Taln's counterpart giant, all the outer giants Connected to/through the pre-Everstorm dynamic on/around Braize (or in Shadesmar, or whatever was/is going in that department, I lost track of the details...). Taln, though, who never broke, therefore corresponds to the 9th of the giants, the giant never Spiritually contaminated by the future reality of the Everstorm, or not contaminated in the same manner. (Impossible argument: how could Taln have done what he did at the apex of W&T? If some of the Heralds' deep power comes from their unique relationship with specific outer giants, maybe his unbreakable spirit is emblematic of the integrity of his corresponding planet, in terms of the prophecy and actuality of the Everstorm, of Odium's ability to channel his power through the outer giants' storm systems somehow. So, Taln can invoke the Spiritual power of Tanat, say, when fighting, and this can enable him to pull off incredible moves like he did in W&T. However, I would then end up claiming that the Unmade were born as part of the desecration of the outer giants, hence why only nine were indeed formed "at the time," since only nine of the Heralds broke under torture, thus infecting the Spiritual aspect of their outer planets with a susceptibility to inter-corruption by the pre/Everstorm. I.e. the Unmade are the undead souls of the outer worlds whose corresponding Heralds broke. But how could that be? I mean, let's say Re-Shephir is confirmed to be a creationspren transmuted into a voidspren or something. I guess having a creationspren be the bead of an outer giant, or rather it would be the bead that had created the outer giant somehow... I don't know, I should probably just think that something about the Unmade and the Heralds and the outer giants and the different storm systems, all interlocks somehow, but I don't know how.)
  10. Ripheus23
    Oh, man, imagine the Blackthorn shadow becoming the Everstormfather or something like being the huge terrifying face in the sky and all that.
  11. Ripheus23
    It's been so long since I read AU, so I don't know anymore what made me think it was Rosharans who showed up on First of the Sun. Scadrians/Ghostbloods would have a reason to look for Aviar aside from any apocalyptic shenanigans, or maybe they look for the birds because they know those're Invested through Autonomy and they're still looking for information about Autonomy, owing to the whole Trell crisis. EDIT: well I'm reading it (the Emberdark thing) now, and I think I remember what it was, because I'm getting the same impression again. It's their armor, I keep reading it like it's Shardplate (all three aliens, not just the third). Or the gun forming out of mist, that makes me think of Shardblades. IDK EDIT 2: OK, this line is getting at me: This seems like a subtle joke about crustacean-like entities compared to humans, like on Roshar. And it's w.r.t. the first two aliens, so IDK. Maybe there are aggressive offworld Rosharans who serve Retribution and peaceable(ish) offworld Rosharans who try to mitigate the influence of Retribution. Maybe that's part of a future compromise: Retribution gets to try to conquer the cosmere but only if he can outmaneuver the other Rosharan class on a world-by-world basis or something. So the first two aliens are his, the third is a singer/listener among the dissidents, maybe?
  12. Ripheus23

    Or instead... If not for the Shattering, then on the cosmic day, all three Realms would collapse into one. As things now stand, either (A) the Physical and Cognitive will merge, (B) the Physical and Spiritual will merge, or (C) the Cognitive and Spiritual will merge. Or there's still a danger of a triple collapse, just not the same kind/level of such a threat. Some factions want to control which collapse happens, some factions want to prevent a collapse altogether, etc.

  13. Ripheus23
    Hmm... OK, so the names of the ten gas giants correspond to the names of the Heralds. Beforehand, in terms of the Honorblades and the Oathpact, the Heralds bound Odium to Braize especially. So, a way to bind a Shard is to bind it to a celestial body. What if, and hear me out but what if they have to crash Braize into one of the gas giants, to trigger it to become a second star in the Rosharan system, a star that Retribution has to Invest in? Or, then, by the duality of the Heralds and the Unmade, they can crystallize a massive amount of Warlight contrary to Retribution's desires, infuse Braize with this mass, and that's why they can use it to ignite a new star among the gas giants? Now in Earth's solar system, for example, gas giants are helpful at gravitationally waylaying/intercepting asteroids/etc. Roshar's only known such impact event was before Honor got there, when one of the moons fell. The site of the fall coincides with Odium's/Retribution's Well on Roshar. That moon had something greater than aluminum in it, maybe its unique characteristics have an exotic mirror in the metal at Braize's core. Like, maybe a conduit can be formed on some level, between the hyper-aluminum, Retribution's godmetal, and the metal in Braize. Something to where Ishar and Co. (or whoever) can move Braize like the Lord Ruler moved Scadrial, say, I guess in part by using the power of a Shard's Well? But so as far as remaking the Unmade goes, it feels almost like the Unmade are cosmere expressions of the concept of being "undead." I have a weird suspicion that the Evil on Threnody is some kind of manifestation of something similar to Midnight Essence (some effluence from Odium, mixed with Ambition??? I did find a thread discussing this idea), and so then Threnody is a planet with a huge "undead" theme (the Shades) anyway. So, maybe it would make sense to want to more fully resurrect them? I mean, like, Kaladin and Co. might be thinking, "Let's atone for the sin of what Rayse did in making the Unmade," and bonding with the Unmade helps accomplish that. EDIT: the Coppermind says something about how the Rosharan system has 16 major celestial bodies: thirteen planets and three moons. But there'd have been 17 originally, before the fall of the ancient moon. I wonder if the 17th Shard organization has anything to do with that moon then???
  14. Ripheus23

    Some more guessing games...

    The cosmere, over the ages, will almost certainly become a unified conscious/sapient entity. Part of this process will include whole planets acquiring integrated minds/souls/w/e. If Adonalsium had not been Shattered, then Adonalsium would have utterly dominated the emergent over-mind, and this is what Team Shattering objected to. The general idea was that dividing Adonalsium's power would allow for more "freedom" on that great and terrible day of cosmic Awakening.

    However, having multiple Shards around each other posed an unusual risk in this regard. Like, it increased the danger of a re-assembly of the Shards, maybe not all of them, but enough of them to constitute a new candidate for an overly-dominant over-mind. Honor and Cultivation reasoned that since Roshar was more or less already as fully alive as the rest of the cosmere would be one day, their being there, though, wasn't so problematic. Rayse consistently disagreed, and had anyway come to the conclusion that by killing the other Shards, he could do the most effective thing to offset the whole danger of the cosmere's Awakening. Or, his Shard was volatile enough to want revenge for Adonalsium's killing, and so he was bound to eventually subvert the original purpose of the Shattering regardless.

    Autonomy, then, is interested in arranging for a rather different outcome. The idea of her Avatars is to have personages in place who, during the great transformation, will be able to preserve their autonomy as much as possible. The current interplanetary/logical whirlpool of the various magic systems, which is a major component of what is evolving towards cosmic sapience, provides a great biological/evolutionary testing ground for beings who can establish and uphold their autonomy.

    Ambition was openly, originally interested in being a dominant Shard, an over-mind candidate in some sense, which is why Endowment is glad to be rid of her. Uli Da, being a Sho Del and thus fainlife of a precise kind, had a wildly different theory about how the Awakening of the cosmere might unfold, though, so she probably thought she could handle whatever over-mind kind of role she was aiming for, or at least she might be able to come up with a way to do it if she worked at it for the millennia it would take for the Awakening to happen.

    Ati and Leras thought that by making a planet of their own, they could guide the planetary-consciousness process more effectively. They had to impose an order of divine providence on Scadrial, to be Shards, something about being a Shard means thematically doing things like imposing orders of providential Intent on history. Inspiring religious texts, performing functional equivalents of miracles, etc.

    Whimsy isn't worried if the cosmere goes all Alice/Oz mode. She's holding the part of Adonalsium that both knew and desired the idea of the cosmere transforming into a whimsical landscape of magic and mayhem.

    ... when Scadrial Awakens, it will be through an enchanted planetary AI system. This will reflect the Shardic artifice of the very planet in the first place.

    Sel will come alive via its geographic magic. Nalthis already features actual Awakening, so, hmm...

    Maybe on Vax, people aren't initiated by having cracks in their spiritwebs being filled in by Investiture or whatever. Maybe Vax is a planet that won't Awaken? Or it'll Awaken in some totally other way, who knows.

    ... seeing the future is so dangerous because the more that people throughout the cosmere do it, the faster the cosmere's evolution unfolds. By projecting their present consciousness across space and time, towards the future where the evolution manifests as an over-mind, people chisel away at the boundary between nowadays and "that" day.

    Random guess: Bjendal is far on the path of Awakening; maybe that's how the "primary worlds" are ranked? By how close they are to planetary sapience? With Roshar as primary because it's already Awake?

  15. Ripheus23

    Hmm... What if...?

    Quote

     Dereth further interpreted Keseg's doctrine to mean that mankind should serve a single monarch. ... He is said to slumber in the earth, waiting for a time when the whole world worships him to return and rule the world.[8] This is cited as the justification for the Fjordell Empire's intent to conquer all of mankind. ... Jaddeth rewards devotion in his followers, as well as ambition.[14][16][8]

    And it says that Rayse weakened Aona and Skai by getting them into a state of conflict, then had to transfer their power from the Spiritual to the Cognitive Realm to keep it up from being taken up again, but this was not the optimal strategy and Rayse learned something from/after it, during his battle with Ambition.

    Nothing in Threnody's lore seems to indicate a process of instigating a system of unrestricted monarchy there, does it? Lemme check... I guess not?

    But then on Roshar, we get another epochal history where Odium engages with his enemy in part by trying to establish a world-king. When this happened on Sel, he was able to play off Dominion's Intent directly, whereas in Honor's case, he had to play off Honor's disturbingly corrupted role in the order of the Shards (as bound by conventions), then later on Dalinar's human failings, but either way less directly?

    Hmm... Taravangian wants to be the One True Lord and God of the cosmere, for a different reason than Rayse, but still... He's Ascended from the position of already being a world-king. Or, ironically, the position of being the perversely blessed king of an enclave city who ended up imprisoned/under guard and then prayed his way into getting to Ascend anyway. Twice, no less. Still, he was a king with worldwide ambitions before, and he's really just fulfilled those in a way that even the theme of a world-king has been achieved on Sel.

    Alternatively, is there some correlation between Elantris and Urithiru, Teod and Azimir, now? In the sense that, on worlds where Odium's meddling has led, over the ages, to a huge tyrannical regime dominating much of the world, there are a city of great, and countervailing, magic, and a nation with a historical separation of some relevant form from the dominant empire?

    I mean, though, there's also the Rose Empire, there, and Duladel was independent until relatively recently (from the POV of the OG book). Hmm... But is that an overarching factor in Shardic magic, then? Because it's said that the geographical locality of the Selish systems has to do with the Dor being in the Cognitive, not Spiritual, Realm. Like, this is literally to the point where a guy made a huge line in the soil and that was able to trigger the local magic on a huge scale. The dynamics of the nation/state concept are what are getting magically reified on Sel, as an overflow from a political-magic process that Odium, Dominion, and Devotion fought in long ago, a process of dictatorship and war, much like on Roshar later.

    Maybe one of the weird basic rules for the Shards is that they have to make it vaguely possible for mortals in their province to be able to Ascend? If they go through a weird enough rigmarole of magic and riddles and prophecies and so on and on? Or, at least, there's a conditional: if a Shard wants to battle another, and it does so on a certain level, it has to try to create a world-regent who will have a corollary chance at getting the Shard? Like, the process of establishing the regent uses Spiritual power through and through, and this puts the regent in the position of being able to take up the Shard. So, it's a risky move: the original Vessel has to manipulate the situation "just right" to prevent that from happening.

    I mean, sure, Aona and Skai have already been killed. It's not like they lingered until the events of Elantris or whatever. So the rise of the Fjordell emperor does not temporally match up to the event of Skai's fall. Still, what if their prophecy is supposed to mean that if they take over the world, their final emperor then will Ascend to Dominion somehow? Ironically, in the process, perhaps dying, because he'd be trying to merge with Skai's portion of the Dor? So it would be that the process for killing Skai, that Odium used, involved creating at least the distant future possibility of a local Selish king becoming the global one, thereby gaining Dominion's profile.

    ... and then, by contrast, the Threnodite situation is way different. Not much information about it, either. Mercy was involved, which is indecipherable information. (Or is it? Damned if I know...)

    1. Ripheus23

      Ripheus23

      Then one of the protagonists would be in a position to take up Devotion's profile, though, maybe... And they'd turn it down, because they don't want Dominion, and they'll live while the holder of Dominion will die? That seems like a gruesome scene for a future Sel novel, though, hmm... Or, both parties will become aware of the possible scenario, like it's a prisoner's dilemma for them to try to resolve? If only one Ascends, they get all the Dor's power and possibly live, possibly die, but the other definitely dies. If both Ascend, they both definitely live, because somehow they can guarantee an equilibrium in the chaos of the Dor, or something like that. If neither Ascends, they both definitely survive too. Or I don't know, it's some kinda dilemma maybe...

  16. Ripheus23
    The front half Archive was a very thorough examination of the moral/political philosophy of dictatorship, if not totalitarianism. Unfortunately for Team Towerlight, Roshar is now going to be dominated by a totalitarian system. This in spite of the fact that Dalinar himself was able to expertly resist Odium's machinations on this score, since Retribution went and took a shadow of Dalinar anyway But so Hoid, for example, at one asked about the possible need for a hard ruler in some circumstances. He did not expect Dalinar to surrender Honor to Odium, he half-expected Dalinar to hold the Shard of Honor against Odium and in the imposition of a dictatorship on Roshar, alongside the possible destruction of Roshar (since Hoid said something to the effect of being willing to watch that happen, if it came to it). So even Hoid was confused/mistaken about the ethics of dictatorship. Dalinar was not, in the end. He knew, flat out, that becoming a murderous dictator of the world would be evil, so evil that no matter what else, he could not become that. He could not trust himself to have become so redeemed that he merited holding a Shard. No human mortal ought to think themselves uniquely trustworthy for the task of being the ultimate ruler of humankind. No one should be this universal, terrible king. No one is good enough to be worthy of ruling everyone else. Virtue is not a competition, and trying to make it out like it is will actually lead to a drastically worse situation, physically and morally, than if a more conciliatory strategy were pursued. Sidebar: part of the allegory of Roshar and the True Desolation is ecological desolation, as a symbol for environmental destructiveness on Earth. On either planet, the cumulative evil of history has desecrated the structure of the atmosphere, to the point where there has been "climate change" at threshold levels of impact. This is not the reason for the subplot I am about to predict will arise in the back half, but I mean it's illustrative of Sanderson's familiarity with political and environmental science. Theory (not crackpot): the ostensible Big Bad's power is, by name, Warlight. His tone is the tone of War. War is the enemy. So what are Kaladin and Co. gonna do, go to war with War? That seems like it might not work, like it would be a self-defeating process. Besides which, and Sanderson being the pathbreaker that he is, it would be a quite nifty aspect of the back half, for Sanderson to depict the philosophy and history of nonviolent resistance, restorative justice, and similar themes, reprising his depiction of the philosophy of authority in the front half. Having a theological totalitarian regime in place, where the evil god is actually provably real to boot, is a great opportunity to showcase how some processes of nonviolent resistance have interacted with destructive systems in the real world, except then clad in the raiment of the cosmere here. IOW, what if, during the Last/True Return(???), Kaladin and Co. lead, not a rebel army that repeats the fantasy that has consumed so many fantasy-genre fans for decades, the one about being an armed rebel against the evil regime that effectively rules the whole world, but instead they nonviolently resist Retribution's system, including by being in Jesus-inspired scenes of literal Physical healing through divine power? (There's a moderately reasonable case that can be made, I think, that the Christian movement that lived under the Roman Empire, i.e. prior to Constantine and Nicea, was engaging in a long-term, and apparently quite effective, strategy of nonviolent resistance to that empire. That they did not, with their victory, establish then a freer state than they did, not by a long shot, is frustrating (to say the least), but we don't have to absolutely idealize nonviolent resistance movements any more than we already do various sides during various historical wars. Still, I don't see why Sanderson has to reject his religious background as a source of thematic inspiration, not by any means whatsoever, and so though there are other ancient narratives of divine healing, and Sanderson might very well be confirmed to know many of those besides the Christian one, I do think that having Kaladin as a healer, say, would be meant so that we would look at him as the effective counterpart to our concept of Jesus, but on Roshar.)
  17. Ripheus23
    To undermine the Intent of War? I mean, like... Tanavast talks in militaristic terms, of an "arms race." So, the cycle, which was a predestination-shadow of Retribution, featured the development of the Heralds and the Unmade as the development of weapons systems in the War. Reconciling the Heralds and the Unmade would be a key component in resisting the Intent of Retribution, for this would be to Physically stop a major part of the war. Now what I wonder, though, is why the cycle was like that? For some reason, I think that I assumed beforehand that the Unmade preceded the Fused, and were simultaneous with the Heralds. So the Unmade were a response to the Heralds, they were designed to match the Heralds in a way that the Fused could not. Then the Knights were made to match the Unmade, with Sja-anat becoming the most feared by the Knights even so? I mean "qualitatively" nor "quantitatively" matched, to some extent: it doesn't seem like just any Knight could be equal in power-level to any of the Unmade, but groups of them might've been the "arms race" logic that Honor and Ishar were going with. For an awful alternative analogy, though: the Fused are like the first nuclear weapons systems, the early fission bombs; the Heralds are like the higher end of those; the Unmade are like the first fusion weapons systems; the Knights are like the nuclear submarine networks. But so does it make more sense to try to specifically reconcile the Knights with the Unmade, then? Granted, Nale and Kaladin for example can express being a Knight and a Herald as one. On a higher spiritual level of the story, maybe there'd be a reason for the Intent of War to be defied not only in the area of the Heralds and the Unmade, but in the other areas, too. And in ketek terms, there's a special pairing of the Fused and the Knights, thematically, anyway, like if the "arms race" were a ketek, the Fused and the Knights would be the outer mirror terms, while the Heralds and the Unmade would be the reflection at the center.
  18. Ripheus23
    Crackpot theory: Lift will double-bond the Sibling and the Nightwatcher to help Sylphrena become the full "Stormdaughter". So, one of the major arcs is Lift meeting up with Sylphrena and Kaladin at the Last Return(???), to lead them to the Valley, on an initial segment of a huge, deliberate quest to regenerate the highstorm system to help re-cultivate Roshar's proper ecology. A next major arc is Lift and Wyndle interacting with the Nightwatcher, with some dramatique having to do with the Nightwatcher being reluctant to assume the bond, or there being an unusual magical obstacle to making the bond, or they figure out Sylphrena has to approve the Words (why, though???* the Siblng didn't need to wait on the Stormfather???), or who knows.** To be honest, I shouldn't even grace this with the name of "theory," or even merely "hypothesis" or "guess," maybe more like "early-2025 fever dream" I used to think it was semi-confirmed that the Ones Above were future Rosharans. I don't know why I thought this, but if it was true, or rather at least if the Ones Above include some Rosharans, then I'm assuming that Rosharans at large at some point see their "chickens," maybe including Lift's/Mraize's (or descendants of these?), getting up to some extreme shenanigans that make them go, "And where do these storming birds come from, exactly?" *EDIT: maybe they need to train Sylphrena in the art of accepting oaths (she can do it, but she could also do it better...), and using the bonding of the Nightwatcher as an example would be a great way to do this? Not necessarily contrived, but for some reason my sense of Lift's personality doesn't fit this image well enough, though. Also, has Lift not sworn the Fifth Ideal of the Edgedancers? I don't know why, but my memory is crazy-blanking out on this, so I don't remember if she has. If she hasn't, we have some reason for a major book 6 scene where she does this. Maybe it takes her so long because it turns out that not swearing it is one of the few things still restraining her aging at all. Like, it seems like her aging is happening anyway, but maybe part of the final Ideal of her Progression is to let go of being a child "completely" and step fully into "maturity"??? Or, better, she transcends the old dialectical standard of naivete-vs.-maturity, finding a way to have an innocent heart and be truly, deeply mature at the same time. In this, she undoes the image of Cognitive War in her heart, thus furthering the Spiritual process of undermining Retribution's Intent. **I was going through the Coppermind and it says: Given what we now know about the Stormfather's will, what does this mean??? That Lift was meant by the Nightwatcher to take up the Shard of Honor?????? Or to prevent anyone else from taking up the Shard? (Well, THAT would turn out to have not worked, at all...) To make Gavilar into a good person? (I ask that thusly: when Lift was given per powers, Gavilar was still alive, and still in the eye of the Stormfather.) To interfere with the contest of champions somehow? (Did she end up doing that w.r.t. Gavinor, sort of???) Something else (probably)?
  19. Ripheus23
    I tried looking for other threads on this kind of idea, I seemed to mainly find tangents about how the Unmade don't correspond to Radiant Orders. Anyway, those threads would've all been outside this subforum, so here goes... Outside thematic argument: one of the best scenes in The Wheel of Time was Having reread the second WoT book not too long ago, I couldn't help but be struck by how much of a good, solid "Jordanlanche" the ending to that was. The style was hyper-reminiscent of Sanderson. Since he wrote, well, the ending of WoT anyway, I think the sheer coolness factor in the end to Winter's Heart gives him a reason to be inspired by that scene. So, a set of scenes that would work for a corresponding thematic reason, in the back half of The Stormlight Archive, would be to have nine of the Heralds bond to the Unmade. I will assume that Taln, in honor of never breaking, would be exempt from this process in direct terms but would symbolically participate in it, in some other way. Person-by-person argument (NOT complete!) Shallan: Re-Shephir? First, why would Shallan even end up a Herald? I think there could be a reason for her to do so in the sense of (A) wanting to fight alongside her mother (I know, I know, she could do that anyway, but c'mon, we gotta believe in the power of family and friendship sometimes, storm it!), and (B) because of Shallan's and Ash's being artists. Moreover, I think I've seen this theory proposed before. So anyway, Re-Shephir was imprisoned by a Lightweaver before, and interacted significantly with Shallan in WoR, after all. Also, might be a former creationspren, so the same type as Shallan's armor. Chanarach: Chemoarish? Because Chemoarish is the Dustmother, and Chana is Shallan's mother after all, and anyway Chana is also the patron of the Dustbringers. And the names have a little good symmetry. Ishar: Mishram? Ishar is a Bondsmith, Mishram is basically on the same kind of level as the Stormfather, the Nightwatcher, and the Sibling. And they've both partaken of Odium's well. Also, his name is off by only one letter from being directly inside of her personable name ("personable" meaning "a way of saying her name, using just the last set of syllables, that indicates some kind of fondness/familiarity"). Kaladin: Yelig-nar? This is my favorite argument for this crem that I've come up with. Basically, Yelig-nar is the Unmade that most resembles the Everstorm in terms of its (the storm's) being the gateway for the Fused and so on. It's even known as the Blightwind, and Kaladin is the Herald of the Windrunners. And Kaladin fought Amaram, of all people, in juxtaposition with Yelig-nar. Absurd guess: Nale: Nergaoul? Absurd because I'm going just off a vague name similarity again. On the other hand, it would be fun to see Mr. Uptight start hyperventilating under the influence of the Thrill. No clue about Vedel, Kelek, Battar, or Pralla, or then Moelach, Dai-gonarthis, Sja-anat, or Ashertmarn. "What's the point???" First off, if the Heralds would bond the Unmade as spren, maybe they could make Splinterblades akin to the Honorblades but in a way that could be combined with the power of the Honorblades like As for why they'd need to do that, I haven't come up with an explanation as to why it might be possibly useful overall. I have a sense for why it might help Kaladin specifically, but other than that, who knows... It makes "visual" sense, maybe, like eighteen people/spren wielding eighteen divine swords would seem like it would have to be able to cause something plot-altering? So anyway, I'm guessing there'd be a scene at the end, where Ishar, Mishram, et al. are at Odium's well, using the alloy of Honor and Odium's godmetals in the process of manifesting the Voidblades(???)/Warblades(???). (I'm fluctuating between an image of the Unmade themselves having Splinterblade forms, vs. crafting entirely new such Blades in conjunction with the power of the Unmade or whatever.) Now, I think it might not make sense for Kaladin to be anywhere besides the Godforge, with Sylphrena, at that point, though. I mean, it wouldn't make sense in the context of this theory (there's a zillion other ways this all could go down, I can't storming believe we have to wait twenty more years to know how it turns out!). And I'm guessing this along with a guess that the Godforge is the Cognitive site of the Origin, and Kaladin and Sylphrena are trying to regenerate the highstorm. So, this is where Kaladin getting Yelig-nar might be exactly helpful, as (part of) a critical way for Kaladin to interact with the Everstorm during the process. So my endgame prediction is currently: Jasnah in Spiritual Kharbranth Kaladin, Sylphrena, and Yelig-nar at the Godforge Shallan, Ishar, and Mishram, and the others, at the evil Well Random point: for some reason, and for what it's worth, the more I think about it, the more Shallan reminds me of Nynaeve.
  20. Ripheus23
    I wasn't sure, at first, how to parse the thing on the back about "now the power of Honor has begun to ask questions" or whatever it says there. And I'm not actually saying to apply the Big Bad trope to this case: I think on some level, Sanderson wants us to move away from interpreting various specific agents as Sauron- or Shaitan-stand-ins. Yes, he'll have antagonists on the narrative level, but he'll constantly try to hammer home how warped the protagonists are, morally, also. I think Jasnah's debate with Taravangian in W&T is a good example of this, and so is the whole vision of Tanavast and his dark, treacherous past. So, that's my crackpot interpretation: if you at least hypothetically apply the Big Bad trope to the Stormlight Archive, you end up with there having been TWO Big Bads "all along": Odium, the obvious one, and Honor, the totally-not-obvious one. And I mean Honor as Tanavast, as the Stormfather (who however seems to have atoned for his ways, at the cost of accepting his desolation as a sacrifice in Dalinar's gambit), as the Shard, and as a component now of Retribution, the most dire being in the known cosmere. At the same time, we are shown Dalinar being shown a vision of the Honorshard as a growing child, so I don't think we're supposed to treat Odium-the-Shard or Taravangian, either, as uniquely "most evil." If Honor can grow and learn, so can Odium, albeit with greater difficulty. Yet so I think the prophecy of letting slip the blade against a child might have had as much to do, metaphorically, with what happened with Gavinor as what could, or even did, happen between Dalinar and the Honorchild: there was a prayer in place that Dalinar would let the Shard go, perhaps unto its destruction, or then its further radical Splintering. Maybe that might have been an "even better" decision than allowing it to fuse with Odium, who knows, but again, I think that we have to be able to hope that Taravangian is, if not entirely redeemable in some mundane sense, yet capable of repenting, among other things. One is minded to wonder whether the solution to Retribution will be to convince it that it has, as a Shard, betrayed itself, so that it Splinters itself completely in the end. Bonus crackpot theory: the Unmade will figure in the final confrontation, not just as perhaps one or another of the "final-area monster class," but as precipitating Retribution's willingness to punish Taravangian, even at the cost of its own existence. They'll be some of the "fault lines" in the Shard's Spiritweb, hammered apart by the gavel of eternal punishment. They will live, though, and what's more, the myriads of new Splinters will all be themselves alive, and innocent, so that in their new life, they can represent the true atonement for the sins of both Honor and Odium, and Tanavast, Rayse, and Taravangian. (Weird to see now that I put those names so close to each other: why is Taravangian's so much like that of Honor's first Vessel?) ADDENDUM 1. I think Sja-anat has objective reason (much as we all do, I suppose) to think that there was something very wrong with Honor/Tanavast/the Stormfather, and so of all people, that she might have had some anticipation of Retribution seems perhaps most plausible to me at this time. At least, if I was going to try to rank the plausibilities, here, I might bet on that Ryshadium (or Ranyhyn, as the case may be...). That is, she would gamble on the possibility that a di-Shard of Warlight would inherit Honor's horrible habit of Splintering himself a bejeezus number of times, and Odium's history of Splintering himself a few times, such that Retribution (or whatever she thought its Intent would be) would Unmake itself eventually, so that it would free from itself, by its self-division, spren ripe for her Enlightenment. She would be, so to say, the Herald of the "freespren"(???). 2. Do we have any indication, even in the terms of suggestive gaps in the lore, that zillions of Unmade of some sort or other will be roaming/rampaging across the cosmere in the future? Arguably, the above theory works better if, in fact, the newly-minted Unmade/retributionspren* aren't figures of incalculable nightmare, both individually and collectively. I've also seen some Coppermind stuff about Midnight Essence showing up outside of the immediate Rosharan zone. Now we need some clues as to what Shallan will be up to in the end, and Re-Shephir has been hypothesized to be a former creationspren, like Shallan's armor. So: what will Re-Shephir's role in Sja-anat's plan be? Or BAM's, for that matter? And while we're still sort of on the subject of Shallan, what about the if-mistaken conflation of another Unmade, Chemoarish, with the Nightwatcher? For the Nightwatcher is another one I'd bet on, to play a crucial Sanderlanche role at some point in the back half. I think Lift might be in the lead as a "fan favorite" for a Nightwatcher Bondsmith, I don't know that for sure and I do think it would make for a great scene, but so I wonder if we'd also have Shallan bonding with Chemoarish in a similar way? *What the heck are these gonna actually be called? Punishmentspren? Faultspren? Sinspren? Guiltspren? Warspren???
  21. Ripheus23
    Wouldn't it have been pointless for Cultivation to give Dalinar the relevant visions if he could have just gone to the Spiritual Realm? Wouldn't it have been pointless for Odium to choose Gavinor as his champion at all if he had been able to choose someone else instead? Anything can be made to seem pointless, or better "not uniquely necessary," when the full range of alternative possibilities is in view. If Dalinar had kept the Shard of Honor, we'd be complaining about how the scene was too much like when Vin took up Preservation, and so on and on. No matter what Dalinar did, he would either have a useless Shard, or one that hated him and abandoned him regardless then. I think something we're supposed to get from the spirituality of the scene is that Honor, both as Tanavast before and an unhinged Shard now, is part of Roshar's problem. Odium isn't the sole "Big Bad," Honor is too, in its own way, and all the righteous panic of the Stormfather before, and the sorrow of Tanavast in the Spiritual Realm, was a "red herring" to make the Rosharan situation out to be like the Scadrian one, with a "good" Shard and an "evil" Shard opposed one to the other. I mean, imagine if Odium didn't take up Honor, and Honor abandoned Dalinar, and was just evolving by itself. The corruption internal to it, and possibly all the Shards, would still have proceeded apace. Like all the other Shards and their Vessels seemingly will, it would "go insane" and continue to commit enormous sins, just like Tanavast did. Remember, the modern Knights generally felt horrible vicarious guilt on learning about how humanity had been the first of the Voidbringers rather than the singers. And now we know that Tanavast finalized this travesty in the betrayal of BAM. Do you think that either the Storm father or Cultivation would have actually been much inclined to show Dalinar the scene of Honor's key crime, after all? And that's not even taking into account the glaring possibility that the very Shard of Honor was itself created by the murder of Adonalsium, in part by Tanavast, a man who we can well assume had some moral obligations of some kind, to Adonalsium. Maybe he hadn't ever sworn a promise to God, but there's a reason why different Vessels were granted, and accepted, their particular Shards, so I do wonder whether Tanavast, back then, was keen on oaths and vows, or at least some attitude/concept adjacent enough to those to explain why he felt that the Shard of Honor would befit him? EDIT: and don't get me started on how crazy Tanavast's privilege was. All the Shards are bound by conventions, so he was given indirect authority over one of the major limitations on the Shards' powers. He settled on Roshar, a world that would hold Dawnshards and had been born of the especial providence of Adonalsium. He had a dragon-goddess for a wife, and through them there exists a being which is itself like a child di-Shard, the Sibling. I mean, they have their own Light, and having a signature Light is one of the emblems of being a Shard, so in a way, the Sibling has a pocket of di-Shardic power. Honor was the key aggressive figure in Odium's imprisonment in the Rosharan system. If any of the Shards had a certain "priority" over the others, at all, as such, it would have been him, but so in the form of a murderer and possibly weak-willed hypocrite who would be willing to betray the people of Roshar again and again in so many different ways. How many people died, really, because of what Rayse did before he got to Roshar, vs. because of what Tanavast did as usurper-lord of Roshar?
  22. Ripheus23
    Basically yes. My prediction is that part of the final showdown with Retribution will be in Spiritual Kharbranth, where Jasnah will reprise her debate with Taravangian, the intensity and force of the debate will invoke the logicspren on a huge scale, her weapon-spren's type of unique physicality will help mediate the energy of the logicspren from the Spiritual Realm down into the Godforge in the Cognitive Realm, which energy will then be channeled into the Physical Realm at the Origin, and so "meanwhile" Kaladin and Sylphrena will be at the Godforge/Origin to witness this, they will play their appointed roles in shaping the storm of the logicspren (along with others playing their appointed roles in other environments), and by means of this convergence, the highstorm will be reformed. Spitfire guesses: the Wind, Lift, Dawnshards, Ishar, and/or etc. will contribute importantly to the process, but I have little insight into e.g. Ishar's narrative role in the back half (I've heard we'll get Herald flashbacks or something, but for him? I think I've heard for Taln and Ash, but maybe not him, I don't know...). By contrast, I have a strong sense about what Sanderson is doing, on the philosophical level, with Jasnah, and having her be the book 10 flashback POV will mean, I strongly assume, that we will be getting personal insights into her irreligiosity/rejection of deity. Since WoK starts in Kharbranth (from Shallan's POV, but also Jasnah's implicitly), I think for the sake of the super-ketek "logic" of the ten-book pattern that Sanderson at least has a narrator's motive in setting part of the final confrontation in Kharbranth. Since one of Jasnah's opening moves in her character presentation is her discourse with Kabsal about the symmetrical cityscapes and their being "evidence" of God, it seems like it would be "fitting". Bonus crackpot theorizing: Jasnah will become a dual Radiant, bonded also to a mistspren for the sake of the Heraldic value of the Palanaeum, and so that the role of mist and concentration(spren) in the manifestation of storm conditions (and as a callback to the value of mist in, err, the Mistborn books...) and the focus involved in logic, will further feature in the process of regenerating the highstorm. (See also: The Coppermind entry on Pralla, where it says, "In the Vorin culture, Pralla is associated with number 5" (so e.g. the fifth book in the back half???.) Random extra guess: the unusual physicality of the inkspren will be juxtaposed with Ishar's disturbing experiments into spren physicality generally. Maybe Ishar will try to reopen Honor's (now Retribution's?) perpendicularity, partly by way of Connecting with Jasnah's inkspren, to facilitate the highstorm-reformation process? Perhaps with Honor and Odium merged, summoning the residual form of Honor's perpendicularity would go hand in hand with drawing on the old well of Odium's godmetal (under the Shattered Plains??? did I read that part of W&T right??? I don't know...), and since Ishar partook of that well already, well... Caveat: there are a zillion potential apocalypse-level variables in the Stormlight Archive, so figuring out which arrangement of which values would be the most "realistic" seems impossible for me. I'm going mostly on vibes, narrative vibes yes, but still... Since I'll have to wait a zillion years for book 10, seems also like the best I can do for now * * * Super-extra silly "logic": where is ink itself found most? I don't know where the concept of ink on Roshar comes from, I don't think they've ever said anything about octopus-like creatures there, among other things. For now, all I can say is that there is a lot of ink in books, especially in the place with the most books in the Rosharan world, the Palanaeum. Just imagine: the legends say the City of Bells gets the purpose of its name from the ability of the bells there to signal impending highstorms. Will Retribution keep up the ruse, so to speak, making a ghost of the highstorm pass across Spiritual Kharbranth, providing one component for a true restored highstorm thereby-the-by? Or will the bells be silent until the true new highstorm is born, and this will be an aspect of the final confrontation: a scene where they say that the bells are ringing again? Next edit: here's a fluffy pastry of a WoB (rich in fluff, light on dough!): So, we have a weird juxtaposition of inkspren and mistspren already. Here's some more fluff:
  23. Ripheus23
    My own use of profanity/slang has mutated so much in the mere 34 years since I started speaking that I would hardly be surprised to find out that someone living an unnaturally long life on multiple planets had changes in their own word usage too. Incidentally, IDK if they edited this in other printings, but the first run of RoW had a ton of uses of the word "though" without a pertinent comma attached (I think that was what I noticed). I think it was in the descriptive parts of the text, not the dialogue parts, but so the point is that Sanderson's own word usage changes over time (I didn't notice him write like that either before or since RoW), it would be possibly even more unrealistic if similar changes didn't happen for his characters...
  24. Ripheus23
    My two spheres about this generally: on a formal/mathematical kind of level, we can differentiate between forms of opposition/contrariety. For example, a term X might have an additive opposite -X, or a multiplicative opposite 1/X (c.f. division itself as repeated subtraction "tending to zero"). A might be opposite B on the same list as B is on; or A and B might be on entirely different lists, with the lists themselves being opposites (we consolidate each list as some Y-term, then put Y and Y' on opposite ends of a meta-list, and so on and on). So, we can find conceptual/thematic oppositions of various kinds, between various Shards. You can find good narrative evidence (so to speak) that this or that opposition is given here or there, but you'll have to be careful to avoid formal trivialization of the "proofs" (making sure that the premises you're using don't accidentally lead to a bunch of random other oppositions/pairings, etc.). Passion (as Odium) vs. Reason, for example, makes good IRL-historical sense. But Odium vs. Devotion (as Love) also makes sense, etc. (and I think that there might be a WoB about that very case???).
  25. Ripheus23
    Since you asked for LDS-related thematic info, I pretty much just want to say that the whole Spiritual Kharbranth thing is insanely frickin' disturbing (in a good Silent Hill-y way) if Sanderson's religious background is factored into the equation. According to LDS writings, when Enoch was translated by God, he wasn't translated by himself but he sanctified his entire city enough to where God translated that city and all its other people with Enoch, too. IIRC the same kind of result is attributed to the virtue of Melchizedek and his city of Salem. I think the resumption of these cities to the Earth might even be relevant to some of the LDS' apocalyptic texts. I think there's WoBs or what to the effect that Nohadon was partly inspired by the story of another righteous king in LDS writings, Benjamin I believe (maybe part of where Nohadon's other names come from???). On the one hand, the city of Nohadon's Radiant Knights (his own was Kholinar yeah? I don't remember) is not taken up into the Spiritual Realm, but it (Urithiru) is set apart from the loss of Stormlight and the dominion of the Everstorm, and implicitly due to the bounty of the Sibling, who is established as a good-side character. However, what happens to Kharbranth, I mean like even the way its Physical presence was omitted, by a flood, that evokes Biblical/related themes. Whatever city was obliterated in ancient history and on the then-Shattered Plains could also be represented as "translated" in an inverted sense, which scene is also indicated most in this volume of the SA.
×
×
  • Create New...