Philomath

Just going to be proud that I guessed the last WTCC on clue 2… and I started typing this before Alyx asked us to say if we did. I loved that one. Ha ha. 

My questions after this episode. 

Did Nightblood have any affect on Odium? Can they eat enough to have made a difference in Odium’s level of investiture compared to another Shard? Like how Ruin wasn’t at full strength without his body. 

And thoughts about Shallan breaking her oaths differently. Or how Brandon answered. It has been theorized that the capturing of Ba-Ado-Mishram is what led to dead eye spren and that broken oaths prior to that didn’t cause as much damage. I wonder if there were other radiants early on in their oaths who decided like Shallan to back out and be done. That probably didn’t happen often. But it’s also not outside of the realm of possibility that someone didn’t like what they had gotten themselves into and essentially quit. And this might not have come up as much because it didn’t affect the spren like it does now. 

Do these WoBs have spoilers for the secret projects? I’m currently still trying to avoid those. We’ll see how long it lasts. 

My joke theory for the 4th one after listening to you guys discuss. It will be epistolary with Nazh writing letters to Khriss. She has sent him to check out some things on Ashyn and he gets sick. Is the plan for Ashyn supposed to be magic you get when you get sick still? I hope so because I think it would be funny if that is the case. So Nazh is complaining to her about being sick, but also gets roped into doing things because he has magic now. And some of the “letters” can also be medical charts. “Patient presented with ‘x’ symptoms. Diagnosed with ‘y.’ Oh and now patient can fly.”

I really enjoyed Cytonic. It was fun. But Brandon really did something incredible with the Skyward flight characters and they are missed. I’m glad the novellas are a thing now so we get more of them. To Eric’s point about the stakes being lower…

Between this and the novellas already out, I am definitely excited to for Defiant. 

16 hours ago, Landis963 said:

I notice that the exact wording of that WoB about the Thrill's current incarceration does not specify whether it is in the Physical Realm or the Cognitive.  Indeed, there is an argument to be made that if the Thrill were imprisoned anywhere in the Physical Realm, it would be very easily seen from the Cognitive.  

My thoughts were that if they dropped it deep in the ocean in the physical realm then it is buried deep in hard to cut stone in the cognitive realm. Making it harder to reach in both places. 

Listened to this yesterday and you guys made me cry. Or I guess Brandon did because this book just had so many great parts. And then my husband started part 5 yesterday and was texting me his reactions and I about cried all over again. I have loved your reviews together. Thank you for sharing with us. 

There’s an old theory about Lift that dealt with the possibility of something happening to the Stormfather/high storm that would make getting Stormlight to the Radiants impossible. 

The Dog and the Dragon is one of my favorite parts in the whole book. That entire chapter is beautiful. Definite tears. Also, I need it as a picture book to read to my kids. That said, I read it to them as a bedtime story tonight regardless. Why do you think Wit has such a soft spot for Kaladin?

I definitely agree with Shannon about Shallan. I liked her best in book one. Was bothered by her in books 2-3. And loved her in this one which then changed how I feel about her in 2-3. 
And Alex on GB leader stuff. 

On 

So much to love about this book. Thanks for sharing all your thoughts! Glad to have a place to listen to other massive fans be excited. 

Yes to all ten of your moments! So much mind blowing madness. I’m really hoping that since book 5 is already outlined that it won’t take a full 3 years to get it. Probably wishful thinking but oh well. I am still just trying to absorb it all so I can’t wait to do a re-read and see how I feel after. Every time I re read Brandon’s books I grow to love them even more. 

Thank you for this review. I just got even more excited. I am scrambling to finish my re-read before jumping into preview chapters. Halfway done with Oathbringer. I can’t wait!

You guys are seriously the best. And I love Lucy’s Over the Garden Wall shirt. Part 5 of Oathbringer is truly amazing and makes the whole book worth it. I’m glad she liked it. Can’t wait for Rhythm of War. 

You guys are fantastic. I am seriously impressed at the Overlady’s reading speed, ability to predict story elements, and her theories. I am terrible at coming up with theories. I tend to just read through the story fast to enjoy it, then miss all the smaller things until later reads. 

This was great! Can’t wait for more. Though I am a little crushed that she doesn’t like Sazed since he is one of my favorite characters in any of Brandon’s books. 

I just learned that one big reason I get Windrunner over Edgedancer is because I love camping. I love traveling in general and if a hotel is what works best, fine. But I’d prefer camping any day. I feel like the description of Edgedancer fits me better and it is my preferred order. Windrunner is close but a little too aggressive and combat related for me. I’m apparently something of a pacifist. Since they were close in percentage I think I’ll just claim Edgedancer and be slightly weird like Lift. Kind of crazy how one question can be the thing that switches it up. It also seems like most people who get Windrunner or Edgedancer first have the other as a close second. There must be quite some overlap between the values of the two orders. 

One other thing for me. I actually loved the format of this quiz. It was different that other “sorting” tests I’ve taken, but I thought this allowed for a lot more nuance. And I also think that each question really does work for determining each order. Sure some of them lean a little obviously to one sure thing (Spirit vs Letter of the law will definitely affect your Skybreaker score), but each order would and does have an opinion somewhere on that spectrum. I’ve loved seeing people’s results and seeing how two people can have the same top order but then everything else different. To me that really captures the individuality of people and I like it. 

That 5 letter one was tricky. My guess was Edgli. 

Edgli

Odium

Shard

Color

(And the last clue assumes Ian is right about her being a dragon) Human

Thanks for another fun episode! I have fun playing along at home. 

I think it is interesting that Cultivation is trying to help the Nightwatcher (a spren) gain more understanding of humans not through a nahel bond, but by experience and interaction. A little trial and error. I wonder what the Nightwatcher would be like with a nahel bond. Or could she possibly gain the intelligence/understand that other nahel spren are gaining just by giving boons and curses. 

I really liked Grace’s Puuli speculation. That actually really works for me. I always wonder what greater significance each of the interludes could have beyond worldbuilding and that one in particular is odd.

And one last thing I wanted to add because I’m not sure idea this was clarified in the discussion. Lift went to the Nightwatcher after Dalinar. She went 3ish years ago and he went 6 or so years ago. So it is possible for Cultivation to have been involved. But as of right now there isn’t enough evidence to know one way or the other. 

I’m with @thegatorgirl00 Grace on the Wisdom shard and the survival shard being 2 different shards still. The other way you guys interpreted that WoB works, it just wasn’t how I read it. 

@thejopen27 I agree that the ending of Oathbringer is a little ambiguous as to Shallan’s mental health and well-being. And there is a lot of good discussion about Shallan and her personas on the forums. My personal opinion is that the “Shallan” persona is the closest thing to core Shallan or Shallan prime we have. The other personas are splinters off that. And at the end of Oathbringer, I think Shallan chose to assert her dominance over the other personas. Doesn’t mean she’s all the way better or that things are going to be easy for her. But I think she chose to take a step forward such as it was. 

Lots of good WoBs in this episode. I can’t wait for more cosmere stories. Thanks for all you do guys! 

(PS, I really want to take on Ian on WTCC. I love those.)

I think the arranged marriage thing goes along with how many royals/nobles there are. It’s part of the politics. Marriages help seal the deal for alliances, treaties, and the like. 

I will say that I’m not 100% sure Wax and Steris should count as an arranged marriage. Maybe it’s semantics, but they did arrange and agree to it themselves. No one else set it up for them. Sure it wasn’t about love at first and was absolutely a political move, but they were two grown ups who agreed to the union on their own. 

This week and last week’s episodes have made me really excited to learn more about the Listeners/Singers in Stormlight 4. I can’t wait. Thanks for all the hard work you all do to make fun content for us fans. (Also just have to add that I totally guessed the second WTCC on the first clue. I love that part of the show.)

I didn’t hear the exact quote about the Lord Ruler and hemalurgy being what made his most dramatic effects, but is it possible it didn’t mean effects from him, but his literal creations of 2 different species from humans? Changing all feruchemists into mistwraiths which then are hemalurgically changed into Kandra is a pretty dramatic effect. 

So the Stoneward’s ability to warp the rock into the stairs. Is that only possible because they have both Cohesion and Tension? Cohesion to make it flexible first and Tension to harden it back up? Or would a Willshaper be able to do that with just Cohesion?

While you were talking about Lightweaver Oaths I noticed that Shallan’s oaths are a little strange. We think of truths as being super introspective about “who you really are” but Shallan’s truths for the most part have been things she has done. She could have said “I am a murderer” as one oath and covered both parents deaths, but instead they are separated out into two different oaths and actions. I guess that’s just more proof that Lightweaver oaths are incredibly flexible. 

3 hours ago, Brightness Jencee said:

“Just a note...I the the Storm Father’s visions were completely unrelated to a nahel bond. Dalinar didn’t bond the Stormfather until well after he can completed the entire vision cycle. Gavilar didn’t have to have bonded the Stormfather. I think he randomly sent visions to a few people to see what would happen. When Dalinar spoke the oaths in WoR, the Stormfather’s response seems like he had not allowed himself to be bonded since the recreance.  Just my personal opinion. Here is the scene:

“Dalinar looked to the sky again. “I have been commanded to refound the Knights Radiant. I will need to join their number if I am to lead them.” Distant thunder rumbled in the sky, though there were no clouds. “Life before death!” Dalinar shouted. “Strength before weakness! Journey before destination!” I AM THE SLIVER OF THE ALMIGHTY HIMSELF ! the voice said, sounding angry. I AM THE S TORMFATHER. I WILL NOT LET MYSELF BE BOUND IN SUCH A WAY AS TO KILL ME ! “I need you,” Dalinar said. “Despite what you did. The bridgeman spoke of oaths given, and of each order of knights being different. The First Ideal is the same. After that, each order is unique, requiring different Words.” The thunder rumbled. It sounded . . . like a challenge. Could Dalinar interpret thunder now? This was a dangerous gambit. He confronted something primal, something unknowable. Something that had actively tried to murder him and his entire army. “Fortunately,” Dalinar said, “I know the second oath I am to make. I don’t need to be told it. I will unite instead of divide, Stormfather. I will bring men together.” The thunder silenced. Dalinar stood alone, staring at the sky, waiting. V ERY WELL , the Stormfather finally said. T HESE W ORDS ARE A CCEPTED. Dalinar smiled. I WILL NOT BE A SIMPLE SWORD TO YOU , the Stormfather warned. I WILL NOT COME AS YOU CALL, AND YOU WILL HAVE TO DIVEST YOURSELF OF THAT . . . MONSTROSITY THAT YOU CARRY. Y OU WILL BE A R ADIANT WITH NO S HARDS.”

Now that I said this, there’s probably a WoB somewhere that says Gavilar bonded the Stormfather...you all said that as if was cold, hard fact. 

I agree with this. I didn’t think the visions were linked to bonding the Stormfather and don’t see why he couldn’t send them to multiple people at once. He essentially does this in Oathbringer at Dalinar’s request. 

As to some death rattle discussion. In reference to “the day was ours but they took it.” This one made me think of the battle before the Everstorm. The Alethi technically won that battle but were too late to stop the storm. 

And the last one from the King of Jah Keved. I think it would be interesting if Taravangian was overhearing a death rattle about himself. The night reigns obviously being Odium. But “the choice of honor is life” fits with Taravangian’s ideas to save who he can. So he views it as honorable to do what he must to save those he can given he sees Odium’s reign as inevitable.