Pagerunner

Strictly speaking, no, harmonium can't be separated chemically. It contains influence from both Shards in a single atom. Chemistry, by definition, does not involve splitting the atom; that's the realm of nuclear physics. Now that we've got our terminology straightened out... I suspect that a harmonium atom is indeed a nuclear combination of atium and lerasium. But any mechanism to split the atom would destabilize the Investiture, and you'd be left with regular elements, no special Realmatics. But that's just my intuition as someone who's been at the forefront of this topic, so I'm not saying it's impossible. I don't think Sazed intentionally wrote Mistborn out of the population; one of the first things he did as Harmony was to turn Spook into a full Mistborn. It's a natural genetic progression; lerasium introduces Mistborn to the gene pool, which slowly dilute until you get weak Mistborn, which dilute until you get only Mistings, which dilute until you get no more Allomancy. That, and the genetic interaction with Feruchemical genes (which had previously been confined to a single population that didn't breed with the Allomantic populace), changed how Allomancy manifested. I don't see any reason to think Sazed decided that there shouldn't be any more Mistborn.

Were they the Pits of Hathsin, or were they the old Kandra homeland? The geographical caverns may still exist, but not the atium geodes.

The Island of Stability, as proposed, would involve half-lives of hours or days, as opposed to milliseconds. Relatively stable, but still nowhere near how long harmonium lasts. (Those who say it will be thousands or millions of years of stability are just looking for funding for their new particle accelerator.) Scadrial is not that different an environment from Earth; Brandon has referred to it as an Earth analogue. Aside from some of the screwy magical things (i.e. kandra, mists), Scadrial is very much like Earth; same length of day and year, same weather, same size and gravity, similar flora and fauna once Sazed restored the planet. (The one notable difference is that Scadrial doesn't have a moon.) But, even in a different environment, that won't affect the fundamentals of the atom. Even though different phases of ice can and do occur (because that's a better way to think about it; water doesn't just have 3 phases of solid/liquid/gas, it has many phases that all behave slightly differently and form under different conditions), it's still fundamentally composed of two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom bonded together. You might have molten metals or even vaporized metals on a different planet, but they would still be the same metals we have on earth: iron, copper, aluminum, etc. Earlier in the thread, we had a discussion on fundamentally changing the atoms, because of added forces from Investiture. It went a little too deep into theoretical physics, and it got to the point where I handwave it away because any relative differences in the math are within 5%. Brandon chose real-life metals to use for Allomancy; he has built it using Earth physics. Harmonium has electrons, and reacts with water; that means it must fit somehow into the Periodic Table of Elements, which is structured around the way electrons organize and behave.

All right, lets lay down some chemistry. Alkali metals don't react with water molecules, they react with positive hydrogen ions, H+. Water will naturally dissociate to some degree; some of the H2Os will split, to have an OH- (Oxygen and Hydrogen bond, with the Oxygen having an extra electron) and a H+ (proton with no electrons). These charged particles in water will drive reactions as they strip away or add electrons to other compounds or atoms. (pH, the measure of acidity, is a measure of the concentration of H+.) Alcohols are defined by a carbon chain with an OH group on the end. (All the carbons are generically denoted as R.) It is possible for them to dissociate, to give RO- and H+, but it happens much more slowly, so they won't react as quickly with metals. A sodium-alcohol reaction is much less violent than a sodium-water reaction. So, if the goal is to preserve metal flakes from reaction, you'll put them in something that will slow down the reaction, but can still be imbibed. Stomach acid is more reactive than water. One thing my friends and I used to do would be to put some aluminum foil and muriatic acid in a coke bottle. The reaction would release hydrogen gas (and, technically, aluminum oxides, but we weren't as concerned with that), increase the pressure in the bottle, and cause it to rupture in a very satisfying fashion. Aluminum doesn't react that quickly with water, obviously. On the scale of 'which would be less reactive,' it's obviously oil (which is nonpolar, no OH structure) < Alcohol < Water < Stomach Acid. For most allomantic metals, stomach acid is still safe for the timescales involved during ingestion, although it looks like the shelf life of vials with water might have been too low. For alkali metals, I'd say that nothing above oil is safe for either instance, in your stomach or in your vial. That makes it very difficult to contact ettmetal with your body, since you have so many neutral solutions (blood, sweat, and tears) that will react. The specific tag for an Allomantic metal appears to include both the chemical composition of the atoms, and the chemical composition of the material as a whole. So, if you don't have the right mixture of iron and carbon, you don't get Allomantically pure steel. If you don't have the right number of electrons in iron, and its bonded with oxygen, you'll have rust, not Allomantic iron. Oxides can be affected by iron and steel Allomancy. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to see iron in peoples' blood, which advanced Allomancers can do. But you can't burn metal in that form. So, all that goes to say, I don't think body chemistry has any room for metallic harmonium, no matter how you slice it. Sodium is an important part of our body, but as an ion; same with iron, an actual Allomantic metal. But they are in a different form, which is mostly unusable in the metallic arts. @Valette Renaitre, may I interest you in the proposed atium-lerasium alloy? Harmonium is a nuclear combination of Ruin and Preservation, where the atom has both Shards; this proposed metal would be an alloy, with atoms of Preservation mixed with atoms of Ruin. This would definitely be possible before Sazed's ascension (unlike harmonium, which might not have existed before Harmony), and it would fit Feruchemy being a balance magic between Ruin and Preservation.

Yeah, that's what I referred to as my Anarchist interpretation. Since its getting into motives, and not just actions, it gets hard to rule out any possible interpretations. There are a lot of reasons Autonomy could be creating religions.

"Restricted," not "Restrictive." I've tossed this idea around before, that Autonomy lacks fundamental bounds on its Intent. Ruin wants to Ruin, Endowment wants to Endow, Cultivation wants to Cultivate. But Autonomy wants to Do What I Want, giving the Vessel much more leeway to pursue her own agenda(s). There are several different interpretations to the word 'autonomy' that can be used to infer the meaning of the Shard's Intent. There's the Anarchist behavior seen by Trell. There's the Isolationist behavior Khriss describes in AU. And then there's the Independent behavior, which I've compared to the Chronicles of Narnia ("[Aslan]'s not a tame lion.") The other Shards say, "Don't mess with our worlds," and she says, "Don't tell me what I can't do!" and sneaks her religions in. Until we see more of Bavadin's active influence, I don't think we'll be able to narrow down which (if any) is her true Intent.

The Pits are no more, and there wasn't much going into to recreated world at the end of the original trilogy, since the atium mistings burnt it all away. Marsh has a small stockpile he's using to compound and decrease his age, like TLR did. But it doesn't look like Harmony is manifesting atium anymore. Now, the next book will be titled The Lost Metal, so there are some who think we'll see a return of atium. (Those who don't think it's somehow referring to harmonium, at least.) But since the Shards are combined, it probably follows that the separate metals for the two Shards aren't being made anymore.

Well, time to revise a lot of my theories. Thanks for sharing that - I had missed it.

An interesting approach. I'm a little fuzzy on some of the physics - what are your mass/energy analogues for an investon? Photons aren't fundamental particles of energy or mass; they're a quantized amount of light, and not all energy needs to be in the form of light. I think you're on a good track when looking at how someone needs to be cracked to interact with Investiture and have something fill the space. I don't think, however, that the specific manner of breakage in the sDNA is what determines powers, nor does the world in question. Hemalurgy is going to be my go-to; it breaks the spiritweb in a number of different places when adding on, and each of those have a different effect. But, when a Mistborn snaps, all of those Allomantic abilities are also unlocked. A 'rupture' is necessary to interact with Investiture, but I think the specifics of 'wavelength of investeton' is accomplished simply by that: the kind of Investiture they interact with. Same thing for planet of origin: there are multiple magic systems accessible to people born on Roshar in the same fashion (Allomancy and Hemalurgy are both genetic, and intermingle with one another by the time of Wax & Wayne.) They would need different ways to 'rupture' their spiritwebs. I think your third point covers everything required, that the kind of Investiture that interacts with a soul determines the magical effects. The spiritweb itself is comprised of Investiture; when a piece of Shardic Investiture grafts on, it will determine the kinds of abilities that are granted. I think you need to distinguish between the Investiture that flows from a Shard and powers magic, versus the Investiture that interacts with a soul. Spren create the abilities, Stormlight powers the abilities. On Sel, the powering Investiture is weaker the farther you get away, but the enabling Investiture in an Elantrian's soul wouldn't any weaker, I believe. When I phrase it like this, the problem I see with Awakening is this: Stormlight is powering Investiture, but Breath is enabling Investiture. Awakening uses pieces of enabling Investiture. Vasher might need to use spren, the local enabling Investiture, for Awakening. There are two magic systems we've seen useable by people without Snapping: Feruchemy, and Awakening. Those are also our two candidates for worlds where the inhabitants were created by Shards, so their spiritwebs might have been designed to interact naturally with those two magics. I don't remember if it's easy to give Breath to a non-Nalthian; if it is, then that would go along with this theory, and Nalthians all come with a pre-punched hole that Breath can fit into. If there's no additional work required, then it would seem to indicate that a break in the spiritweb isn't required for every magic, only some magics.

Can you source this? I've watched this idea closely, and don't recall having seen anything either way.

It still might not form a protective layer around Harmonium. I've speculated that it releases pure Ruin's Mist (for complicated chemistry reasons). The big picture that I was going for wasn't quite that harmonium has a limited shelf life, although that's part of it. It's that harmonium isn't a part of normal geology - although an alkali metal, it won't exist as an oxide, which is one way (along with salts) that we are able to access and recover these sorts of reactive metals. A large amount of pure harmonium would need to be specifically created by both Shards for some reason, with a mechanism to persist in its pure form, and then Rashek would discover and use it for his solution. I'm not suggesting any of that is impossible - just making sure you're spelling out every step, since the very presence of harmonium needs an explanation.

Khriss identifies a group of sixteen people in Secret History. Currently, Dominion and Devotion don't have Vessels, and they won't achieve sentience on their own, both because of how Odium had 'stuffed' them into the Cognitive Realm. (It's possible Ambition is in a similar situation, but Odium might not have figured that out when he had fought Ambition.) So, it's possible, with work, to leave behind a Shard without a Vessel. But it looks like they all started with one.

They commented a week ago that they're on target for July-ish, and say that they'll have a more detailed release schedule soon.

Hey, there are no dumb questions. Only dumb people, sorry, I meant to say we all have to start somewhere.

So, Lift's abilities are from the Old Magic; they're something unique to her, based on what she asked for. We've actually seen Hoid use Allomancy on Roshar (pay very close attention through Shallan's flashbacks), so it looks like a Mistborn on Roshar would function normally, without any weird side effects. Allomancers wouldn't be powered by Stormlight; they'd still be powered by the metal forming a path to Preservation, to draw power to accomplish Allomancy.

When Nightblood is out of his sheath he's creating black smoke, which will be pushing air away from him. That's bulk mass transfer, while you also need transport of water vapor molecules through the air to the surface of the blade to create rust. I don't think he'd be able to rust, even if it was just because his blade is protected from oxidizing agents by the manifestation of the smoke. Probably not the answer you're looking for, though. Nightblood is very much like a Shardblade, and we've never seen those break, even when a Shardbearer used one as a springboard. (I think it was Adolin in WoR, but I'm not sure.) I'd expect the Investiture to provide additional coherence, to keep Nightblood from breaking or deforming, but that's not a given. Especially if Nightblood is rarely used as an actual sword, in which case he wouldn't need to be indestructible. (Although the sheath is definitely sturdy enough to be rammed through someone's chest.)

They've been releasing updates on their Kickstarter; they're running several months behind schedule. I believe it's due to all the extra art they needed for all the stretch goals they unlocked; I'm not exactly sure, but I know they said a while ago that they wouldn't make April.

Bethlehem, PA. I have met other PA Sharders, but I guess they haven't added themselves to this thread.

It's one possibility, although we've only explicitly seen Connection so far in Connection to a region (which is how Allik was able to speak the Northern language) and an artificial form of Connection in Secret History. This seems more like a drab not triggering life sense, which might have more to do with the Cognitive Realm. But either way, I don't think Brandon will make heavy use of this, because you're almost describing the Gray Men from the Wheel of Time. They were assassins so featureless that you would look right past them and not notice them, even when they're getting ready to kill you. Although it would be a cool use of feruchemy, I suspect Brandon might stay away from things that are such obvious parallel's to Jordan's work. (For instance, I don't think some Knights Radiant will be able to use Gateways exactly like we see in Wheel of Time. But we should hopefully see more of that in the next Stormlight book.)

I'm glad someone got something out of my paragraph about ice cream.

I'll admit that it's hard to say conclusively what is or isn't possible, but I'll lay out in more detail what I understand as the difference between Shattering and Splintering, and where I view magic systems as originating from. Magic systems and Investiture are all 'of' a particular Shard, with Adonalsium also fitting that bill before the Shattering. Magic systems are an outgrowth of a Shard Investing in a world, and when the magic system is used the users will draw energy from that Shard in a manner determined by both the world of origin and the Shard itself. These are typically not limited by location in the Physical Realm (with the exception of the Dor); when Hoid used Allomancy on Roshar, he drew power from Harmony in the manner determined by the interaction of Harmony and Scadrial. The source of power can change (Stormlight looks like it has serious potential to power both Awakening and Sand Mastery, if people can figure out the tricks), but the presence of the magic system, the structure that defines what is possible and how it's accomplished, needs to be tied to a both a Shard and a world. So, why don't I think Adonalsium can be a magical progenitor, even though Honor still can? It has to do with the difference between Shattering and Splintering, which as I understand are not interchangeable. Both are similar in that they involve the power of a Shard being divided up. But I think the large-scale implications on the being that has been divided are different. In Splintering, the pieces do not lose their original association with the Shard's Intent. Even though Honor has been Shattered, the spren are still pieces of Honor (or Cultivation, or a mixture of the two). That investiture, even though it is separate from the bulk of the Shard, knows it's still part of the Shard. This is the case on Elantris as well, where Seons and Skaze are still part of their Shard, but don't provide enough of a Cognitive relief valve. And somewhat similar on Scadrial, even though there has been no Splintering taking place. But harmonium contains two kinds of Investiture in conflict, which contributes to its instability. It's not a metal associated with Harmony; it's a metal associated with both Ruin and Preservation, which still have distinct flavors of Investiture even though the Shards themselves are held by the same Vessel. At the Shattering, they didn't just divide Adonalsium up into pieces; they created sixteen new Intents, the Shards, which could interact with planets in the same way that Adonalsium did to create magic systems. There were Splinters of Adonalsium before the Shattering, which still survive in some way, but Splinters cannot create magic systems, only Shards can. And Shards are not Splinters of Adonalsium. Surgebinding isn't of Stormfather, it's still of Honor, even though he's been Splintered. (Again, maybe of Cultivation as well, depending on what we see going forward. For the sake of this illustration, Cultivation's exact participation doesn't matter.) Let's compare it to ice cream. You've got a big tub of boring unflavored ice cream. You take pieces out of it to make cones; we'll say that's using the magic system. And then you can also fill quart containers that you put in the freezer that people can buy individually; those are Splinters of Adonalsium. There's only one thing on the menu, one 'Shard' that can create magic systems by interacting with planets or create Splinters. But then, one day, you divide your big tub into sixteen smaller tubs, and give each of them their flavors. That's the Shattering; you've created new flavors of Investiture. You change your menu to include sixteen flavors, but you have to take off the unflavored. There are still quarts left over (Splinters of Adonalsium), but you can't hand out cones anymore, since the Adonalsium tub no longer exists. (i.e. Adonalsium can't power magic systems). A quart isn't enough to add corresponding cones to the menu; a Splinter isn't enough to create a formal magic system. So, what happens to people like Hoid, who are still eating 'unflavored' ice cream? Well, I'll need to alter my metaphor, since it's starting to break down. Magic systems aren't flavors anymore; they're specific dishes. You can take vanilla and make a banana split, you can take mint and make a shamrock shake, you can take pistachio and make something that nobody wants to eat (no offense, pistachio fans). I think it's possible that, after the Shattering, the 'unflavored' ice cream in a magical banana split has been replaced with vanilla; the Yolish magic system is powered by another Shard, but the dish itself remains largely unchanged. The other alternative that I see is that the counter no longer serves banana splits, and Hoid brings his own bananas and runs around swiping other peoples' ice cream, then dousing it all in chocolate syrup so he doesn't taste whatever flavor it was he stole. That would be using localized Investiture to power a magic system. His spiritweb holds the ability to Lightweave, but the normal way of powering it (directly from Adonalsium) will no longer work since the Adonalsium tub isn't at the counter. That's what Vasher does, as well; where he comes from, he needs to eat rocky road, but it's expensive. So he goes to Roshar, where he can get chocolate for cheap, but he hasn't figured out how to make a good chocolate-and-brownies recipe like he used to have back home. (He can consume Stormlight to survive, but not use it to Awaken.) So, if you've gotten lost in my rambling or just feel a need to go get some ice cream, here's all I'm trying to say: Shattering will destroy a Shard. Splintering will not destroy a Shard. Because Adonalsium was Shattered, and no longer exists, it can't power a magic system. That's how I distinguish between the two cases; because Brandon has used different terminology (Shattering vs Splintering), there must be differences. I don't think the pieces of Adonalsium left behind are enough to replicate the planet-Shard interactions that create magic systems in the first place.

Oh my goodness, it says it right there in the corner of the screen. Thanks for pointing it out; now I feel pretty foolish. I'll stand by my comments about controls, though.

Two mentions of GRRM. One saying 'You don't need to go so far on sexual themes as ASoIaF.' Once to illustrate how surprise deaths can heighten the emotion, and I can't think of a better example than Martin. That really is his calling card.

What, is OP not allowed to have an opinion on what would improve Brandon's books in their mind? Or just not allowed to mention it around you guys? Many of their points (religious views of characters, hidden sexuality, and overuse of resurrection) are all things Brandon has engaged with in detail on Reddit when people have posted similar complaints. Nothing here that deserves downvotes. They're well-considered ideas, backed up with plenty of explanation and comparisons that are designed to give concrete examples. I'll disagree with the fundamentals of the opinions, and honestly I wouldn't enjoy if Brandon followed the advice given. My preferences for discussion range more towards in-universe theories than these sorts of metatextual analyses, so I'm not particularly interested in engaging with the topic at hand. But let's not flame a brand new user for sharing thoughts. Welcome to the Shard, @Rockobar. Normally, the level of detail you put into your post would get a much better reception around these parts. I guess you've just managed to find a sensitive topic to make an entrance on; by all means, don't let it stop you from visiting other parts of the forum.

The metal that was used in Bleeder's spike was from a Shard we knew in 2015, which excludes Ambition. Now, there are cases where Trell the Shard might have gotten a hold of another Shard's god metal, and Trell is actually a Shard we haven't seen (or not even a Shard at all). But, based on the Taldain essay in Arcanum Unbounded, Autonomy is the current front-runner for Trell's true identity in many of our minds. But there are still people who will suggest Odium or Dominion are actually behind Trell.