BasementDwellingRadiant

1. While reading, I found it difficult to care about anything that wasn't happening in Urithiru. The Fabrial science and Fused occupation was too interesting, and the war in... I don't even remember where... was too fragmented to really hold the same weight.

2. The scene with Navani working with the dark-eyed battalion lord(who's name I'm not going to look up because I only have the audiobook), and the scene with Jasnah taunting Ruthar felt too similar and were too close together because of that.

21 hours ago, kaellok said:

Shallan killed her mother in order to save her own life.  She killed her father in order to save the lives of her brothers.  She killed her spren because she was a child, and too young to be making such binding Oaths.  Killing her spren is the only one that has any weight of 'atrocity' attached to it, and I simply fail to see how an 11 year old child can be expected to bear full blame in that instance.  It's a tragedy, for sure, but I don't think it's more than that.

Yes. Wow. It's amazing the difference not having three glasses of wine in me makes when I look at that.

I agree whole-heartedly. The brands flaking off was an incredible moment. And, I loved it.as Ookla said, it tied everything together at the end. Which... is why it hurts me to say this: I don't think it should have happened here. Oh, it makes perfect sense. One-hundred percent, the brands being tied to the fourth oath is perfect. But(and keep in mind I'm saying this without vital information), I think it would have been a little better had they come off with the fifth oath. It could have marked the "end of his arc" so to speak. He would have grown into the person the Oaths wanted him to be. And, in doing so, he would have grown beyond the scars.

However! Had they flaked away with the fifth oath... It might have felt a bit too cliche or cheesy or... whatever word you want to use.

So, yeah. I am completely happy with the brands coming off. It just leaves me without any idea where Kal will grow from here. His inability to let go was his thing. I have no clue what the fifth oath could possibly be now.

Man... this was kinda all over the place...

On 11/25/2020 at 1:08 PM, Autobrecciation said:

Moash is going to be the Gollum/Smeagal of this series. Maybe he takes up Honor and Odium and becomes a different combination: Vengeance. Maybe he realizes Odium has betrayed him in the last moment, prevents Dalinar from grabbing Odium before the shard is splintered. I just hope its better than Spoiler WoT:

  Hide contents

Padan Fain, which ended up being somewhat unsatisfying end for that character for me.

 

Adonalsium, please no! I understand why these kinds of characters exist. Believe me, I do. It's important to show how far you can fall down the rabbit hole of dark darkness and evil evilness. But... I never enjoy reading them. They just become page-skip material for me on re-reads. That said... when you really look at how bad some of the things our leading Radiants have done are... I could see him getting a redemption arc. I mean... Dalinar burned an entire city alive. Venli ushered in the apocalypse. And, Shallan committed parents+spren-acide. Heck... Other than Jasnah(as far as we're aware), Kaladin is practically the only one who hasn't committed some kind of formative atrocity in his backstory that lead to becoming a good guy.

1 hour ago, Valigus said:

we actually know nothing about How adhesion really works

This right here is actually one of my great aggravations with the Starlight Archive. On one hand, the Windrunners are the order we know the most about. We know their duties and Oaths. We know they get the most(and most powerful) squires. We also know what kind of people the honor spree go for when bonding. But... we only know what one of their surges does with any reliability, and a full half of their power set has only been hinted at. We're almost half way through the series after being with the order for all four books. And... almost nothing. Sticking rocks to walls. Creating a windshield while flying to protect their eyes. The biggest hint we've had was when Kal created a pocket in the Highstorm. I can only imagine Sanderson is saving it for a big reveal or high point. Because if he isn't, and adhesion is just meh... Bridge Four's lack of dedicated, on-screen research into figuring it out will feel hollow(at least to me).

A good comparison at this point(at least in part) would maybe be how (SPOILER) Harry Dresden hasn't thought to research what a Starborn is in Dresden Files. (END SPOILER) Granted, it's not quite as egregious. But... the willful lack of experimentation is adding up.

Scene opens on a dark room, light filtering through closed blinds. There is a pile of empty and half-empty soda cans on the side of the desk. A crumb covered paper plate sticks halfway out of the trashcan below. Camra pans to show a bed, a conspiracy chalkboard resting upon it. Curled up in the corner at the foot of the bed is BasementDwellingRadiant, clearly unwell from too long researching WoT lore. "It can't be..." he mutters. "It - Can it? - Is it that obvious? No. No. How?" From the other end of the house, Eric Cartman screams bloody murder. Something about needing pizza rolls and another empty bottle. Or did he say bucket? It's muffled and hard to hear. "Could the hint -" BasementDwellingRadiant mutters again "have been in front of us all this time?" On the Conspiracy Chalkboard is written only one sentence.

Aginor's name before becoming one of the Forsaken was... Ishar Morrad Chuain! Coincidence? I think not!

Maybe it was three sentences. The camera never was very good at math.

Seriously, though. This is epic levels of tinfoil hattery.

3 hours ago, Xerun said:

Hmmm I don’t know. Originally I would have agreed with you but as the series goes on I find Lirin to be a bit more annoying then anything. His treatment of Kaladin implies he doesn’t think of Kaladin as an equal who is capable of his own decisions. He wants Kaladin to follow his own ideas without question and is angry and disappointed when he doesn’t. 
 

that doesn’t scream Radiant to me 

Because no parent has ever been disappointed with their child's path in life. He is being too extreme, yes. But, that just means there is room for him to grow, to improve, and to become better. There was a theory some time ago that if Lirin were to become a Radiant, he wouldn't be an Edgedancer or Truthwatcher(the two healer orders), but a Stoneward. And, I can't help but think he fits most of their defining points to a T. Granted, I don't see him being into sporting events or weaponry. But, he is stubborn to a fault in holding to his pacifism and I suspect a good surgeon might need to improvise solutions at times. Plus, he could benefit quite a lot from a path of Oaths focused on Teamwork and getting along with others.

From Sanderson's Website...

Quote

Stoneward oaths focus on team dynamics, on learning to work with others, and on being there for those who need them. They put the interests of others before their own, and will not bend their Ideals for the sake of convenience.

Stonewards are the infantry and ground troops of the Radiants and are renowned as their finest soldiers. (A title that, on occasion, the Windrunners dispute.) They tend to attract those who are most interested in warfare, prowess with weapons, or athletics of any sort. They like a challenge, and in times of peace are seen engaging in (and running) various sporting events of both a military and non-military nature. Many enjoy the outdoors, and you’ll find exploration enthusiasts among them, as well as those who just like the fresh air. They tend to be known for their can-do attitudes and for taking on enormous projects (sometimes more than they can handle). However, most agree that the primary attribute of the Stonewards is their dependability. Though sometimes gregarious, they are never flighty. If a Stoneward is your friend, they will be there for you, and that is a core tenet of their Order—to be there when they are needed. Another key attribute is their ability to take a difficult situation with few resources and make something better of it. Though not known as inventors or creators, they are good at improvising solutions to problems in the moment.

21 hours ago, Azarias said:

They're not shaping the air- they're just turning the air already in that space into stone.

and yeah you're right about the pain

Navani(I think?) notes that air rushes past her into the space of the wall when Jasnah repairs it.

1 hour ago, Aminar said:

 some kind of failed Princess Bride attempt

This is actually a really interesting idea. Did Shallan ever breath in Stormlight after drinking the wine? Both the clear and orange wines had a LOT of detail given to their flavor and/or appearance...

I'm going to go with MURDER. If I had to guess, I'd say it was Ishna, who we already know was trying to join the Ghostbloods, and who the Ghostbloods investigated on Shallan's behalf to discover if she was a safe hire. That being said, she is the obvious suspect. So, I think it's also possible that we discover Shallan actually did do it and her control is even further gone than we believed already.

About 7 1/2 years.  

Seriously, though: If you cut out the waiting time between books it probably took me about three months.

Personally, I prefer to begin by rereading the whole series so that I'm caught up right about when a new book comes out. Then, I binge that book. Once I've done that, I wait about a month to bask in the glory of it, and start again for a slower read where I savor the detail. Repeat as needed. This will probably fall apart as we get more and more books, though.

Given the technological advancement we see in Row, I've been wondering about other possible forms of transportation. And, my brain latched onto one in particular that has struck me as quite a fun idea... though the more I think about it the less practical it seems. Could someone use a heating fibril to make a steam engine. The specifics of the fabrial itself are less important to me since we're getting a bunch of fabrial info in the epigraphs. But, what I'm wondering is: Does anyone have any ideas to secure these trains against high storms?

On 8/10/2020 at 11:41 AM, Spren of Kindness said:

Use Abrasion to move furniture.

Storms! Never again would D&D night end with an army of new scratches on the floor! This is BRILLIANT!

Gravitation to reenact kung fu movie fights where someone gets kicked across the room.

Tension to make bulletproof clothing and become a superhero

Transportation or Gravitation to become the fastest pitcher in baseball

Cohesion to create breakaway walls wherever you want

Transformation: CONGRATULATIONS! It suddenly only takes a moment to make breakfast!

Illumination makes your voice carry wherever you want. You have become quite the ventriliquist!

Regrowth: Hey, I cured cancer!

Regrowth: Hey, I started a religion!

I didn't even need to tie your shoes together with adhesion.

Gravitation made me the strongest man alive! See ma, I can lift over one-thousand pounds with one hand!

Transportation got me both in and out of your new highly-advanced and impenetrable bank vault.

Transformation: And now I'm an architect that doesn't need other people to actually build the project we'r - ahem - I'm working on.

Assuming teleportation, Transportation means no more work commute.

Division lets you tell your math teacher that yes, you do understand the concept. You just don't like writing long division by hand. (sorry Chaos)

Illumination instead of spending money on makeup or select other beauty products

Edit: typo

I found this a little while back when looking for a Knights Radiant 5E writeup:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YEOuc_2eGpXV3_yw8ltHaBE-9hFmKK4H/view

I'll confess I don't remember much about it other than it was cool enough to bookmark.

The major hurdle I see in adaptation would be the self healing. Stormlight healing is nuts if one compares it to D&D. I mean, in book 3 Shallan takes a crossbow bolt TO THE FACE and just keeps trucking along while it repairs itself). And, that's not an advanced Radiant thing. That's ALL of them. Granted, there's a bit of disconnect between that and D&D damage. But, if one were to just take it at face(hehe...) value... The only thing in 5E that I think comes close is the Moon Druid with its ridiculous(but hilarious) in-built infinite hit points(which starts turning on around level 17 if I remember correctly).

Ever since the RoW Preview Chapter Discussion marker disappeared, I'm not sure where to put this. So, Spoiler tag.

What must it have been like to be a civilian in the battle of Hearthstone? To see hundreds of Radiants go to battle for the first time after millennia of myth and religious historical demonization... To see them glowing and flying, fighting an occupying force after offering to take you someplace safe. I can't help but think it would be one of those moments where you'd look back and tell your grandchildren "I was there." But, at the same time, there's been a year of war already. So, how common are stories about Radiants at this point? I know this has less to do with theorizing than it does with pure emotional speculation, but I can't help but wonder.

And, to the admins: If I put this in the wrong place I'm sorry. Please let me know. Though, I'm not sure how I would go about fixing it.

1 hour ago, Sandra said:

You should watch this. 

https://youtu.be/4lRDdxUy5iE 

That... explains a lot about some posts I've been seeing.

Seriously though, Moash can go to Damnation.

Keeping in mind this is supposed to be like the end of a book, does anyone think it's possible for Moash to show up? Could make for an interesting slew of interactions. Not to Kalaral ship(not a big fan of that one), but if Kal ends up defending Rashone, after he already defended Elhokar... What are the chances Moash would try to incriminate Kaladin infant of Tanavast, Dalinar, his father, someone's pet dog, and everybody? Doubt it would happen straight away, but maybe towards the middle-end of Part 1?

2 hours ago, Kuram said:

Lightweavers could probably just hide the barge.  I figure they'll eventually figure out how to bend light around things, or to have the illusion look like the background.  Even if you just make it look like the sky from the bottom.

There's an issue with that, though. Sunlight carries heat with it. And, if you bend all - or at least a bunch - of it around you, temperatures will drop pretty dramatically in your little no light/minimal light bubble. Mind you, I'm not a scientist and the last time I took a science class was in the beginning of college about seven years ago, so I could be wrong about the specifics. Please correct me if I am.

I'd say a combination of surges is more important than specific orders. That said, if you can double-up on certain surges, all the better. And, if the surges work differently for different orders, that might throw a wrench in the works. But...

Lightweavers or Elsecallers: The keys to success. This really depends on the above issue in regards to screamers. How many does Odium have? And, can the sense the "louder" fibrials through the "quieter" illusion wrapped around it. If they can't, than Lightweavers take priority. If they can, Elsecallers become more useful. In either case, Soulcasting is extremely valuable if you need to magic up some supplies to make repairs while on your journey. Assuming the screamers are able to sense what's going on through an illusion, Elsecallers can double as artillery by magicking up things to throw, and applying the Transportation surge to them to give them some scary oomf. (NOTE: I am assuming Jasnah's speed mentioned by Renarin in the final Oathbringer battle was her using this surge) Soulcasting food would also mean you could exchange some space you would otherwise have dedicated to supplies, and do something else with it.

Willshapers or Stonewards: These two are primarily here for Cohesion(making hull repairs much easier), and as infantry if fighting hits the decks. Tension would be good, too, if you need to fortify the hull against attacks that might break inside.

Windrunners: While Skybreakers' Division might be useful... we don't actually know the extent of what it does yet. We only know that it is the more dangerous of their two surges. So, until further information is provided on the topic, safety in numbers seems a good rule. Plus, low ranking Skybreaker squires can't fly, which would limit them pretty heavily to deck fighting while you have fewer people in the air to cover all angles.

Edgedancers or Truthwatchers: Healing is good, though we don't really know the extent of what Truthwatchers can do outside of that. Again, more information would be nice. But, in either case: Healing good. Lack of healing bad. Yes? Yes. Good, we all agree.

Bondsmith: Maybe it's a Dalinar only thing. Maybe not. But, stormlight on-demand for all the above is kinda important. You don't want to get caught out in the middle of nowhere with no stormlight when you need it. They could probably also help with repairs if needed.

Honestly, the only one I'd be hesitant about bringing is the Dustbringers. And, that's more because I don't know much about their powers yet. Putting people who will fire into existence on a wooden flying barge seems kind of dangerous to me, especially with their reputation for breaking things, and if they can't make it happen at a distance. If they have to be touching where they want things to burn, like Malata's little scene with Mr. T... I don't want them onboard. Sorry guys, you are still one of my favorite orders, and last time I took the quiz I had a pretty good chance of matching with you. But, It's just not a good idea. 

Interesting Idea: Assuming Lirin becomes a Stoneward, could he employ Cohesion and Tension as a sort of pseudo-healing technique? You know, reshape broken bones or severed veins so that they are set or connected properly again. Maybe, he could do the same with flesh as well? Then, use tension to make sure they stay that way? I'm... not sure it would really work. But... shrug. Or, just reshape them, and then once the starlight ran out their consistency would return to normal but in their new - repaired - form? That way he could remain a healer, and keep to his code, but also be a Stoneward.

On 7/29/2020 at 9:52 PM, Karger said:

Spark is cool with what allows her to break things but we don't really know anything about Malata.  I am sure smart!Mr T left clever instructions about insuring "his" radiant's loyalty.  I think ash spren are attracted to very disciplined people.  Yeah in the short run those types do less damage but when you want to burn down a city it is generally a committed and disciplined individual that gets the job done.

... like Harry Blackstone Copperfield Dresden?

... Man that's a scary thought...

As far as Malata and Dustbringers are concerned: We don't actually know if she's sworn the third ideal. Isn't it confirmed that Radiants get their blades at different Oaths depending on their Order? For example, didn't Shalan have access to Pattern in blade form before swearing her three oaths at the end of WoR? And, Brandon confirmed she's currently at Oath four. Doesn't that mean she summoned Blade!Pattern after only Life Before Death etc.?

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

On 7/29/2020 at 10:16 PM, Karger said:

I agree that a few none radiant perspectives are critical but I do think giving Lirin an arc that actually pushes Kaladin onward would be a really good way to fix his left over problems with Kaladin and naturally progress both of them as characters.

Agreed! Wholeheartedly agreed!

But, in all seriousness: I could see Lirin in a number of orders. The pacifist Windrunner. Edgedancers... maybe. Truthwatchers. Elsecallers... again maybe. Stonewards is a very real possibility like you pointed out OP. But, and here's the twist I'm gonna throw in just for fun: What if Lirin becomes the next Bondsmith? It has been pointed out that Navani would make a good Willshaper. What if that tone she heard in the Never Nev - I'm sorry, Shadesmar - was actually a Willshaper spren calling out to her? "I will unite" could work as an interesting lesson for Lirin, tying in with that teamwork theme you mentioned. To be honest, I don't actually expect it to happen. It's just a fun thought. But, it would spread the power out a little from just "Team Kolin!"

Seriously though, I really like the Lirin is a Stoneward idea. And, we need more of those.

NOTE: Sorry for all the Dresden Files references, I just finished my reread of Peace Talks earlier... erm... yesterday, I guess.

On 7/30/2020 at 3:00 PM, Child of Hodor said:

There are 9 Unmade, 9 Heralds quit, 9 Fused orders, the Everstorm usually takes 9 days to travel around Roshar, In a Vision Nohadon says the desolation killed 9 out every 10 people. 

9 comes up a lot in the books and it's always for bad things!!

Oh... and Taln is the ninth Herald. I'll just let you guys ponder THAT little detail. It can't possibly be significant, though. I mean, it's probably nothing.

*Shrugs and walks out of room*

2 hours ago, Kalaksbreath said:

I died of laughter when Dalinar called Lirin "Lirin Stormblessed".

*Sticks head back in room*

Same!

*Leaves again*

1) The not Kholin Radiants interacting with their families

2) Anything to do with the Oaths

3) Plate

4a) More about Willshapers (I had zero interest in them until the post that came with the quiz. Now they're one of my favorite orders)

4b) Dustbringer stuff (The Coppermind claims we're going to get more about them this book, and they're also a favorite of mine)

5) Urithiru turning on

6) Bridge Four finding out about Moash

7) Adolin's progression

6 hours ago, Pathfinder said:

I believe what they are trying to say is since a dustbringer is ruby red, then shallan as a lightweaver should be an off red color or a different hue to denote garnet

Yes, this.

Shouldn't Shallan's eyes glow an off-redish variant, because Dustbringers are associated with rubies and their color is red?