Fifth Scholar

Glad you guys are having fun but it’s time to put a ribbon on this cycle and ship its victims off to Mandos. See y’all in an hour and a half

The alert line is flavour text. The idea is that, if you’re a messenger opening letters, it’s hard to do discreetly for any length of time

Yes, Melkor and the Corrupted have a doc.

A little over eight hours left! Don’t forget votes and actions.

Your brothers in Eru? blocked kills are reported, yes

Storms. The vote on TUN should still be there. Other than that it should be fine. Sorry about that, carry on >>

“Finrod was with Turgon, his friend; but Galadriel, the only woman of the Noldor to stand that day tall and valiant among the commanding princes, was eager to be gone. No oaths she swore, but the words of Feanor concerning Middle-earth had kindled in her heart, for she yearned to see the wide unguarded lands and to rule there a realm at her own will.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion, “Of the Flight of the Noldor” Ere Manwe was aware, the peace of Valinor was poisoned. The Noldor began to murmur against him, questioning why he had set Melkor to roam free. A smaller number still sued for his clemency, and even the Valar began to speak out. At the festival Nienna proclaimed the imprisonment of the greatest of the Ainur a failure, reasoning with surprising fervour that his time in the fastness of Mandos had served only to further the corruption of his mind. Tulkas spoke mildly against her, but being overruled by the other voices, he held his words and his fists until such a time as the Enemy should reveal himself more openly. Then Feanor, moved by the spirit within him, stirred the Noldor with passionate speech, invoking the destruction of the lamps and the past misdeeds of their old foe. ‘Why indeed, O Noldoli,’ he cried, ‘should we suffer that Melkor, who has ever given us naught but betrayal and sorrow, roam free about these lands, guised in fair-seeming speech? Is it not for his sake that my father cannot join the great feasts of our people, that he watches with sleepless eye over our fastness at Formenos where our greatest works and treasures lie hidden; that our people are stirred to bitter words and self-ruin? Should we not seek him out and put an end to him? Yet the Valar would have us remain in their girdle, while he roams free.’ Thus spoke Feanor in the presence of all, and his indomitable will, fearing not the wrath of Vala or Noldor or creature foul or fair, was such that the Noldor were put to shame, and stirred in their hearts to the commitment of the end of Melkor’s reign. Yet in his words Feanor could find naught but zeal to unite them; and so it was that soon the debate of the Elves turned to factions and dissension. Mandos and Varda looked on, silent, as each brought forward one whom they found suspicious, and ultimately Galadriel of the house of Finarfin was chosen. Desire she had to see the broader lands of Middle-earth, much as Feanor did, yet unlike her cousin she had not yet the words to drive her fellow princes to reason and action. So Mandos took her to himself; and in the depths of the Mountain she dwelt, till the Enemy came forth openly once more. The Wandering Wizard (Galadriel) was Faithful! Vote Count: Wizard (2) Dannex (2) Araris (2) Kas (1) TUN (1) Cycle Two has begun! It will end in 22.5 hours, at 10:00 PM EDT on Tuesday 6 September. Get votes and actions in! Action results are going out shortly. PMs are still open. There is still an exe today. Good luck! Player List: 1. The Unknown Novel as Aegnor, son of Finarfin 2. Araris Valerian as Findor, star-watcher and boat-builder 3. Matrim's Dice as TBD 4. Shining Silhouette as Sircyn, son of Tellyn 5. JNV as Menelir of the Sea and Sky, a concerned wanderer 6. Conquestor as Sethryn, son of the Rememberer 7. The Wandering Wizard as TBD Galadriel 8. da[n=??]ex as TBD 9. Devotary of Spontaneity as Nienna, a Vala committed to criminal justice reform 10. SymphonianBookworm as TBD 11. Archer as Tarell the Toothsayer 12. Kasimir as Tulkas the Valiant

Uhhh I don’t live count votes because they change too much sorry could try to throw something very unofficial together, or one of you enterprising souls could do it

Seven and a half hours left! Don’t forget votes and actions!

Dunno what you mean by cumulative, but each 40% chance of protection against kills is independent. Cannot quote your other questions, but to answer them in bullets: - As Kas said, sword limits are once per game per player per sword. So if Wilson had two Fell Swords, she could kill twice, and if she was then stabbed five times in the back and the swords given to Wyrm, he could also kill twice. - Messenger PM spying only works on messages sent for the given cycle. - Jewels negate all votes a player has, including bonuses from Silmarils. - The Gemstone targets another player, and all actions that would be performed against that player happen to you instead. It does not mess up your target’s actions (unless it’s a Smith self-targeting or something similar).

"Now in his heart Melkor most hated the Eldar, both because they were fair and joyful and because in them he saw the reason for the arising of the Valar, and his own downfall. Therefore all the more did he feign love for them and seek their friendship, and he offered them the service of his lore and labour in any great deed that they would do. The Vanyar indeed held him in suspicion, for they dwelt in the light of the Trees and were content; and to the Teleri he gave small heed, thinking them of little worth, tools too weak for his designs. But the Noldor took delight in the hidden knowledge that he could reveal to them; and some hearkened to words that it would have been better for them never to have heard. Melkor indeed declared afterwards that Fëanor had learned much art from him in secret, and had been instructed by him in the greatest of all his works; but he lied in his lust and his envy, for none of the Eldalië ever hated Melkor more than Fëanor son of Finwë, who first named him Morgoth; and snared though he was in the webs of Melkor’s malice against the Valar he held no converse with him and took no counsel from him. For Fëanor was driven by the fire of his own heart only, working ever swiftly and alone; and he asked the aid and sought the counsel of none that dwelt in Aman, great or small, save only and for a little while of Nerdanel the wise, his wife." - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion, "Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor" Melkor has been freed! QF62 has officially begun! Get your votes and actions in! Also note some important changes to the rules; namely, Melkor has lost C1 exe immunity and has 1 conversion; he now permanently possesses Craft and Cunning; and the Sons of Feanor will now share an anonymous doc rather than a group PM if they chance upon a Silmaril. There is an exe today. PMs are open. Remember that these are one-on-one, and must include both myself and @Elbereth, the Queen of the Stars herself, who has graciously agreed to IM. You may also go to her with any concerns about the game. I am sorry for the 100% Tolkien writeup, as well as the lack of characters for those of you who requested them. I will seek to remedy that tomorrow, as I should have some time with the holiday. Spectators should be receiving a PM shortly. I blame my disorganisation on a hectic evening. Good luck! Player List: 1. The Unknown Novel as Aegnor, son of Finarfin 2. Araris Valerian as Findor, star-watcher and boat-builder 3. Matrim's Dice as TBD 4. Shining Silhouette as Sircyn, son of Tellyn 5. JNV as Menelir of the Sea and Sky, a concerned wanderer 6. Conquestor as Sethryn, son of the Rememberer 7. The Wandering Wizard as TBD 8. da[n=??]ex as TBD 9. Devotary of Spontaneity as Nienna, a Vala committed to criminal justice reform 10. SymphonianBookworm as TBD 11. Archer as Tarell the Toothsayer 12. Kasimir as Tulkas the Valiant

Signups are over! I've got a lot of stuff to organise, so please bear with me, but you should all receive PMs in the next hour or two. Good luck to all! May the Valar watch over you! (or, uh, Eru if you already are one)

Yep! I will send out spec links when the game starts.

Of course! Welcome aboard! And you’ve got till Sunday evening to finalise a character

Don’t let Melkor scare you away, I’m sure his perfidious lies won’t work on you

Welcome! Yes, the conversion count will be public. Alright, all y’all will receive characters D1. I will leave you to the dubious collective mercy of me, my IM, and possibly @Kasimir Edit: Spectators are noted, though if people want to pinch-hit, I won’t say no to that either. Ed2t: Convenient Silmarillion synopsis is enclosed under rule clarifications. If you’d like a less sarcastic and cryptic explainer, YouTube is your friend

Now even while Feanor and the craftsmen of the Noldor worked with delight, foreseeing no end to their labours, and while the sons of Indis grew to their full stature, the Noontide of Valinor was drawing to its close. For it came to pass that Melkor, as the Valar had decreed, completed the term of his bondage, dwelling for three ages in the duress of Mandos, alone. At length, as Manwe had promised, he was brought again before the thrones of the Valar. Then he looked upon their glory and their bliss, and envy was in his heart; he looked upon the Children of Iluvatar that sat at the feet of the Mighty, and hatred filled him; he looked upon the wealth of bright gems, and he lusted for them; but he hid his thoughts, and postponed his vengeance. Before the gates of Valmar Melkor abased himself at the feet of Manwe and sued for pardon, vowing that if he might be made only the least of the free people of Valinor he would aid the Valar in all their works, and most of all in the healing of the many hurts that he had done to the world. And Nienna aided his prayer; but Mandos was silent. Then Manwe granted him pardon; but the Valar would not yet suffer him to depart beyond their sight and vigilance, and he was constrained to dwell within the gates of Valmar. But fair-seeming were all the words and deeds of Melkor in that time, and both the Valar and the Eldar had profit from his aid and counsel, if they sought it; and therefore in a while he was given leave to go freely about the land, and it seemed to Manwe that the evil of Melkor was cured. For Manwe was free from evil and could not comprehend it, and he knew that in the beginning, in the thought of Iluvatar, Melkor had been even as he; and he saw not to the depths of Melkor's heart, and did not perceive that all love had departed from him for ever. But Ulmo was not deceived, and Tulkas clenched his hands whenever he saw Melkor his foe go by; for if Tulkas is slow to wrath he is slow also to forget. But they obeyed the judgment of Manwe; for those who will defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel. - J.R.R. Tolkien, "Of Feanor and the Unchaining of Melkor" The Noldor find their hearts gladdened by the fair land of Valinor and the craft and skill of the Valar. Song bursts forth continually from Taniquetil, the palace of Valmar basks in the glow of the living Two Trees, and even the twilight hours are sanctified by festival and rejoicing. There seems to be no bounds to the bliss or the endeavours of the Noldor, and the greatest of these first Children of Iluvatar already seek to prove their cunning and reflect the light and joy of the holy city. Yet amidst this, the most ancient foe lurks; he who first broke the lamps of Valinor and plunged Middle-earth into darkness, whose fastness in the ancient strongholds of Utumno and Angband was never fully plummeted and rooted out, whose new clemency poses an existential threat to the cooperation of the Noldoli and the Valar. Melkor, He Who Arises in Might, roams free again. And Arda may not escape the doom of his coming a second time, unless the Noldor themselves can resist his lies... Welcome to QF62! The rules for the game may be accessed here. They are also, in slightly less organised form, presented in the spoiler below. Changes to the rules based on playercount, if any, will be announced C1. Please participate if you can, as it will be more fun with everyone joining in. If you intend to spectate, or would like to co-GM to help with writeups or PMs, do tell me that as well, and I will accomodate you as best I can. (Eru, that sounded so much like a line from a syllabus. Can you tell it's the start of the school year? ) This game will begin in a week's time, at 10:00 PM on Sunday 4 September at 10:00 PM EDT (-4:00 UTC). Unless circumstances change, this will also be the standard rollover time. My IM for this game will be edited into this space once I receive one, and as usual, you may go to him or her with any concerns you may have about the game. Thank you all! I'm looking forward to a fun Tolkien game, so please RP and have fun. And if you want help with a character I will make one for you I will help you find something you like Good luck! Player List: Quick Links: Rule Clarifications:

I don't know how imperative time is as a factor, but if you give me, like, 48-72 hours, I can get an updated ruleset (or several) sent to committee if @Illwei wants to defer. If she doesn't, so much the better, I'll not stress about it and claim my slot later

Go team! This game was a little frustrating for me on a few levels—first, the pure elation at getting thrown in a doc with Kas and Devo (awesome teammates who completely carried btw) was tempered immediately by the realisation that we had pretty much nowhere to hide among talkative players except Mat—and then Mat caught onto Kas C1 and we had to kill him to avoid detection. Even though they didn’t exist, we were also scared to death of the second copies of the scan and roleblock lenses, and it kinda ruined our focus in the elim doc for awhile. Anyway, C2 was underway, and then my infinite time available rapidly contracts to almost nothing as my parents announce we’re making a surprise visit to my relatives coming from Oregon. I have almost no time in the next few days to post—with Kas’ and TGK’s textwalls, I’m barely keeping up with the thread—and then I get my last chunk of time over halfway through, Kas and I do our preplanned staged brawl, which works out okay until I poke TGK with my vote which attracts suspicion. I can’t really put it elsewhere, and then I get voted on from TGK for “distracting the village with meta discussion” (not my intent, I would rather actually be a bear in school in the Montanan wilderness than voluntarily begin a meta debate mid-cycle), Joe for defending Wizard (lol) after he’d done nothing but read me village, and Devo so that we didn’t go down together if she saved me and I died later. Meanwhile I’m watching all of this, but have no time to actually respond to anything, and just die instead. RIP. Not usually the end to my silver tongued play. I definitely deserved to die since I was evil, of course, but it was a little weird getting caught for “the wrong reasons” (even though getting caught for the right reasons would have been much worse for the team ) Anyway, rant over, game was a blast when I was alive, and I was super lucky to play with Kas/Devo/Archer who were good prolific teammates who actually distanced correctly, and carried from there. Thanks to Elan for GMing, and all my PM partners for being fun. Wish I could have done more with Grischuk, but that’s (thug) life. A few parting thoughts: Devo - 5. exd5 JNV - a parting wave, and Kas - since they’re your favourite, a preview of our next PM:

No knocking down my stilted fallacies, it’s rude And maybe it’s another case of bad logic, but in my mind, when it comes to voting and wanting results, I take the caveman approach of high numbers good. This doesn’t really apply early in the cycle—you want to keep options open—but later on, you put pressure not only on certain people, but also on voting populations as a whole, by clustering. One vote on a few people? Okay, my vote will equalise that, no problem. Two votes? Three? All of a sudden I have to find people to agree with my ideas, or push back against already-formed blocs. I was trying to push us into that stage of the Exe yesterday because that’s when people start committing—to voting or not voting, to hopping on bandwagons or steering off on side-trains. If Ash and Luck were functionally equivalent, I, in your shoes, would have kicked the stakes into what I view as a higher gear. Your explanation makes sense on an intellectual level, but instinctually it’s never something I would have done. okay, yeah, fair. In a world where you’re telling the truth, I’ll concede that the claim makes sense. bro unlike you not everyone types at 240 WPM. I’m on mobile and that post was in one tab for like an hour, and I wasn’t about to go hunting the “new reply” button as I saw them come up because that has a historical record of eating my posts, and it’s already past midnight far as I knew your vote was on me. I’ll admit I’m not comfortable either with your switch, since your focus on me has kinda surprised me so far, but have you considered that if we separately decided to vote on the same player, you’re maybe tinfoiling on me too hard? Maybe? Just because you have never personally seen village!Fifth in thread with actual time on his hands does not mean you can testify to his nonexistence I would rather be wrong now so I can be right later. Kas and I might not be having a very village bro game right now but I stand by him on this, if I am forced to continue this nonsense I will lock myself in an asylum and give the key to HH and tell him to check in on me in ten years >>

First, since I wanted to take a look at this last cycle and didn’t have time, Kas made a long voting theory post which I actually pretty much completely agree with. I will note two things about it, though: one, that my LG87 “stab vote” on Araris was purposely misconstrued because I wanted an excuse to stay off the main Exe drama and just conveniently distance from a factionmate instead, and two, that my Ash vote was trying to apply pressure in the same way you describe a stab vote. As we saw over halfway through the cycle, the random system of pokes meant that nobody felt that he was under any duress, as four of five votes spread thinly at one each indicated. Doubling up on Ash made the threat of his death real, put someone in the lead to generate actual discussion as to why people were (or were not) voting the way they did (as evidenced by Conq’s reply to my ploy), and moved the Exe forward. After Ash posted two very short posts, I didn’t see a reason to move my vote, or a better target, other than perhaps you which I wasn’t about to pursue with no time left in the cycle and a consensus more or less already forming. Now on to stuff from this cycle. I still need to read it in more depth to figure out what’s going on but these are what jumped at me. Might I remind you that you were the first on Ashbringer? If we’re going to complain about starting pushes, maybe we look there first—I followed you on and stuck to the idea when you had abandoned trying to apply pressure to him. And yes, I was redirecting you to Ash, because he was a target of existing pressure and, to some extent, existing discussion, and none of the reasons to want him dead had really changed at the time. Luckspren was out of the public eye, yes, but I don’t know if your eventual vote on her did much other than spread existing votes out even more. We ended up exeing Ash and sort of getting a group of people on the same page, but it was last-minute as you noted, and I’m not sure the wider focus actually helped the village—we got no clear alternative to Ash, and thus no good wagon discussion towards EoD. Consolidating earlier might have changed that—you had the opportunity, and didn’t take it. I think that’s pretty much what that complaint boils down to. As for being Voidstormed, I doubt this clears either you or the Voidstormer, mostly because (as I doubt someone holding a newly acquired tracker’s lens would say something about it) your claim can’t really be contested (and please, if you have actually taken a lens from Kas, for the love of Edgli don’t claim to make a point >>). Assuming you are telling the truth, a Voidstormer is in an awkward position of being a lens I would see as unlikely as being in Elim hands—as I’ve speculated in a few PMs, I’d think they’d have some more permanent ones—as well as a lens that Team Evil would love to use C1; they gain nothing from sitting on it, and have the chance of stealing repeatable tracking or roleblocking from the village. So I don’t know what to make of the VS. I suppose it could just as easily be said that a villager wouldn’t see a reason not to use one, though. This is a really long way of saying that I find both your claim and your vote odd. Okay, this is a more classic Kas post Barring some absurd gambitry on a Kas/Luckspren elim team, your scan results sound helpful—I’d agree that Luckspren would be more likely to submit a kill as someone low-profile (though, if I am reading Elan’s rules correctly, the Order seems restricted to some/one elim(s), as only the kill is mentioned as being an explicitly faction ability, so not sending in a shatter might not have any bearing on her desire to do so, merely her ability). If there’s an elim on the Ash train, it’s probably Devo—Conq has seemed genuinely village in PMs (though take this with the Shai’tan gut that comes with all people who try to pocket me privately) and seemed to join the train out of actual suspicion/desire for information, whereas Devo…is her usual inscrutable self. At least to me. Which means I kinda don’t want to string her up just on a handful of weak PoE assumptions. If she’s evil, we should just kill her teammates anyway and then I’ll have a fighting chance against her. (Sorry, Devo ) Understand the spending too long thing, it’s a curse sometimes >> I have a question for both Novel and Wizard, though (and anyone who cares to answer): out of last cycle’s non-voters, who is most likely to be evil? I have very mild bad gut on TUN from this cycle but am not sure if it’s lingering LG87 side effects so I’m minded to hold my judgment. His more recent frustration seems to be genuine, which isn’t necessarily AI, but it does make me minded to back off him a bit—there are probably more fruitful targets anyway. Hmmm. As someone whose philosophy is always “vote if able,” conscientious objectors to voting kind of bother me. At the risk of rehashing a very old debate, voting is the lifeblood (death blood?) of the village—it’s a source of information, a mechanism of pressure, a tool of analysis, something that forces commitments and decisions and real stakes. Staying out of it isn’t necessarily evil by default—there are good Village reasons sometimes to not contribute to Exe voting—but Elims stand a lot more to gain from the neutral stance that it provides. Yes, voting might put you under suspicion. That’s how it works. We all get thrown into the suspicion pool and tear at each other until someone is dead, then look at the autopsy. If too many people stay out of that fray, even early on, we get less info to work with. Maybe you’re less bloody, but so are the Elims. So jump in, TGK.

I am here rather hectic Saturday, which can be blamed partly on @Hemalurgic Headshot and partly on my family coming together to do a DIY project (my arms are sore). Will also probably not be on for much of tomorrow as I’ll have church and then travelling to a relative’s house so that’s fun too I guess. multiquote coming in a second (read: an hour or two)

This is long and I’ll get back to you when I can actually afford to write an essay but I am happy with my vote on Ash. His posts haven’t given me any reason to move off him, even within the parameters you define. Happy to kill Ash, unless he produces a very good post in the next 5 minutes

Well, we do need to kill someone, and so far none of the Exe targets have been particularly responsive save Matrim, who is no longer under threat. I would eventually like @Kasimir to explain why he went onto Luckspren and not back onto Ash, but I’m not gonna vote him for it (especially since he probably won’t be back). Overall I have no problem leaving my vote on Ash, especially if he has been on the Shard, and if the Exe develops elsewhere I’ll look at reasons to switch. Nobody has really been pinging my gut so far except Kas and Mat (very lightly), which is weird, so I don’t know if people should say more or if I’m just not paying as close attention to things as I ought >>