king of nowhere

ok, i added the choice in the poll

when did that happen? i forgot that part, or I failed to notice we were expecting her to show up, but by the time I got there, I was so engrossed in reading that I wasn't paying attention anymore. that's why it took me a bit longer than most to figure it out. There is also the fact that while my english is good, I am not a mother speaker, and so if I see some obscure metaphor I don't undertand, my instinct is to ignore it and figure out its meaning from context. Because there are figures of speech that are specific of the language and I'm not familiar with.

The first time I read OB, I realized Azure was vivenna when the people she struck with her blade turned grey, the color of the lifeless. Upon rereading, I realized there were many more subtle clues that could have tipped me. So, I'm curious and I started a poll. When was your eureka moment that you realized she was vivenna?

"the end does not justify the means" is something stated by people having the luxury of better alternatives. when the stakes are smaller, and you have cleaner ways of reaching your goals. on roshar they have neither

they depended on soulcasters to eat. that was the reason they hunted gemhearts in the first place. eshonai herself confirmed it in one of her pows. But then they were never mentioned again. at the battle of narak, everyone fought. all the listeners who had refused odium had escaped already (they also weren't heard of anymore). where were the soulcasters? were someone wearing them in battle? were they carried away by the little few who escaped? are they now taken by odium's army? or maybe they didn't want to risk them in battle, so they were hid in narak, but then never recovered? they just disappeared from the story when they were not needed anymore.

regarding somebody who called adolin a walking clichè (can't find the post, may be one that got deleted), well, there's truth in it, adolin is basically prince charming. However, he's far from a classic fairy tale prince charming. He's inserted into a fairly gritty world. And while he is prince charming, he is pragmatic enough to survive in this world. He has enough grey in him that he's humanized. unlike those old prince charming, adolin is somebody we could meet down the road. It has to do with the deconstruction/reconstruction process. the first fantasy heroes were fairy tale guys, bold and true. those guys weren't very believable, so a deconstruction process turned them gradually darker and edgier. those guys also became too dark to be believable, sparking a reconstruction process. adolin is a reconstruction, he incorporates some of the edges while still being a real good guy. Well, I oversimplified the process, but the core is there; it's like a periodic function, your heroes are too pure, so you make them darker, but they graduallly become too dark, so you shift towards pureness again, in a neverending cycle. As such, the interest for a character depends a lot on where one stands on the curve. If one is moving down from the pureness towards darkness, then adolin is a flat character. If one is moving up away from the darkness, then adolin is a welcome relief from all those characters who seem to come from a prison or mental institute, and they are the ones who look flat.

- pushed his father to confront his visions - showed kaladin a good example of lighteyes - won a half-dozen shards for the kholin - rescued the narak battle - killed eshonai in the aforementioned battle - killed sadeas - rescued adolin and shallan from their heroid BSOD in kholinar. in that specific case, it deserves mention that both kaladin and shallan had suffered a total breakdown and neither was capable of continuing. kaladin was catatonic. shallan was paralyzed with indecision. it took stable and pragmatic adolin to tell her to not trust an unmade and activate the oathgate (turned out to be the wrong choice, but without that specific knowledge trusting an enemy general is not a smart idea) - helped kaladin get out of his despair. - helped shallan a lot. I'm just rereading the part, and I get the strong impression that adolin is the force of stability that is keeping shallan together. so yes, he's just a minor character who didn't accomplish anything relevant anyway

this mathematic allows me to reiterate my point that adolin can significantly be expanded without hampering anyone else: say we take 5k words away from dalinar and shallan to give adolin; now dalinar has 106k words and shallan 101k, they lost less than 5%, their characterization and focus aren't impacted significantly. but adolin at 30k words would be 50% more represented. we don't disagree with brandon on the big picture for adolin; we merely think adolin is important enough that 3% to 5% more space in the book could have been devoted to him. nothing drastic, when you consider it that way. in fact, some adolin fan with access to brandon may try this argument to sway him. still, adolin has one third the pows of kaladin. that's much more than i figured out. doesn't help that even in his pows his focus is mostly external, on other characters, so many of them still don't feel like adolin is really taking the scene.

the thing is, adolin has a llot of narrative importance. He was chiefly involved in almost everything important that happened: - he was a strongly influence on his father's decisions about his visions. - he was seen by kaladin defending a prostitute; kaladin specifically recalled that episode when he decided to rescue dalinar's army - he fought at the tower - dalinar relies on him to win shards from other highprinces - he goes to joint assaults with other highprinces - he spars with kaladin - he fights szeth - he starts a relationship with shallan - he is central to the big duel, then goes to prison with kaladin - he goes to parley with eshonai in place of his father - he leads the fight at narak - he duels eshonai - he kills sadeas - he trains shallan in the sword - he is a main component of the kholinar expedition - he takes part in the shadesmar trek - he fights at taylen city Hardly a minor character with a minor part. In terms of relationship, considering there are three main characters, adolin is son to one, husband to another, and best friend of the third. Again, I wouldn't call him minor. He's also brother and cousin to two people who will be main characters in the second half. Yes, I understand that he does not drive the story, but I still argue that after the main three characters kaladin shallan dalinar, adolin is the next most important character. I understand that some people don't really care that much about him and don't think the story would gain anything from expanding his focus, but claiming that he does not matter because he's a secondary character, well, it takes a very peculiar definition of secondary character to say so.

it's not like we don't know much about him. We know quite a lot about him. I'd say he can still be seen somewhat akin to an ensemble darkhorse because we know much less than his position in the story would warrant. especially considering how much we know of the three main characters, and that adolin is arguably the most important character besides those three (really, I can't think of any other candidate who was so much involved in so many key events). Regarding brandon, I don't think he is wrong in wanting to keep adolin in the background, nor that he should push him to the forefront. Adolin still works better as a support, and the story is more interesting with its current protagonists. it's just that he should get some more attention, given his role. Like, one chapter in every ten or twenty outside of climaxes who are devoted to yet another shallan or kaladin pow, give it to adolin. it would keep adolin secondary, but would flesh him out better. Although I'm thinking that brandon is intentionally trying to keep a small number of main pow characters because he fears losing track like the wheel of time.

I'm not sure how much I'd call him a mary sue - after all, he only has one thing he really excels at, and even there he got defeated often enough when circumstances were unfavorable. but he doesn't have any real weakness, that could be a better way to put it. but that could actually be a reason brandon keeps him in the background. if he took more the forefront, his lack of weakness would not go well with many readers. Anyway, those two wob are not completely bad. they say adolin will not take a larger role, but he'll probably keep his current one, which is not all that bad if you look past the lack of focus. He still got to look decently heroic in the past books, after all. P.S. I just recalled the scene in the storming of the palace when he is fighting in formation with the other soldiers, and realized his being a good team player is also a very welcome contrast to a lot of overly individualistic protagonists. I'm thinking of pretty much any protagonist I know, from "I must do everything myself" Rand al'Thor, to "I must go alone 'cause others can't keep up with me" Vin, to "I don't want anyone except my buddy" Vax and Wayne, to "I must protect everyone" Kaladin. Even a highly social player like Shallan or, worse, Egwene, only use other people for their purposes.

Fully agree with that. adolin story is full of expectation that do not pay off. alas, true dat

Probably it is part of the greater plan for her arc that will unfold in the next two books. with kaladin and dalinar doing very well at fighting their demons, brandon needed someone to take a few steps backwards to keep the tension in his protagonists. Well, he was still traumatized during his first viewpoint in OB. It's not too unreasonable in the next weeks he considered the thing some more and found out he actually was ok with it. he came to terms with it, so to speak. dalinar has progressed a lot since those days. I think adolin will forgive him heartily. of course, there should be some angst at the revelation.

The poll isn't going to be reliable, as people attracted by adolin threads are more likely to readand answer it. It's probably skewed in favor of adolin supporters, and possibly haters. Just said that's one of my main reasons for liking him: finally a sane, stable guy! the current trend of heroes always being some brand of crazy, former murderers, suffering from severe psycological issues, or immature youths is disheartening. Ok, I can see the whole "inspire people to overcome their flaws" vibe, but that's not going to work if the good and sane people are pushed in the background. Heck, you make it seem like adolin should be ashamed to have better self-control than most. What's he supposed to do, trash around in anger/joy/despair all the time? Would that solve anything? I'll tell you, I am also the 'take things calmly and rationally, don't make a fuss' kind of person, and my parents, who are much more emotional and make big worries about everything - both developed serious stress problems as a result - tried to guilt trip me about being more like them for decades. So the whole "people should have strong emotional responses" is a pet peeve of mine. People should keep their emotions in check and remain functional, and while it is human and understandable to fail in that regard at times, those who can make it deserve praise, not suspicion. Worrying helps nobody, do what you can to fix the problem and then stop fretting. And especially his reaction to shalladin is to be praised. "I just want my beloved to be happy" is how someone genuinely in love should act in front of the chance of being left for someone else. Then there's also the matter of command and ego. You put kaladin and shallan in the chasm, and they fight for control. shallan reveals she's a radiant to dalinar, and they fight for control. dalinar makes kaladin a captain, and kaladin is as insubordinate as he can get away with, and some. elokhar also wants to say his piece. jasnah doesn't struggle for power merely because she's so good at it that she wins automatically in every situation. Lift does whatever she pleases anyway. Taravangian schemes behind their backs. And I'd like to strangle them all. they just make problems for all, and they can't settle things like reasonable adults, by talking and making agreements. They often feel like spoiled brats. I always liked followers and supporting characters more than protagonists. Finally we have somebody who does not have deep-seated issues. Finally we have someone who is willing to help others achieve greatness without resenting to be overshadowed. Finally we have someone who can think and act like a responsible adult. I'd much rather trust the fate of the world to somebody like that. And finally, in a world of superheroes, we have someone who can hold his own without. He should be in inspiration to alll normal people. That said, I also don't like how brandon keeps him around all the time, while actively trying to push hiim in the background. Like, he is always in the middle of the scene, but he gets very little pow time. He is often on the outskirts of important stuff, but when a main character has to make a scene, adolin get stuffed in a closet so he won't steal the scene. The whole story conspite to put his character arcs, like the murering of sadeas, in the background. By the way, I disagree that adolin got everything. his father was an ax-crazy warlord turned alcohol addict who ignored him for most of his life and treated him like a soldier for the rest. His mother was a good person and raised him well, but she was killed when he was twelve. He grew up surrounded by backstabbing snobbish people. His rank precluded him many friendship. I would say he had just as much reason as kaladin to turn out depressed.

adolin not being on the path to becoming a radiant in no way whatsoever implies the problem lies in his bond to his blade. especially not when we had two characters who bonded spren while having a dead shardblade, and it proved no obstacle.

Well, I have no experience with visual arts and I'm rather poor at them, so I sort of assumed that was a proper graphic novel and there was something wrong with me. Glad to hear I wasn't the only one. Really, a graphic novel isn't a good medium for a story mostly about politics. It should convery action better, but it actually fails totally at that, as I can rarely grasp what's actually going on. And yes, sand mastery was depicted much better in earlier installments. Now kenton just sort of glows. Also the art change was very off-putting. Even I noticed it, and I pay little attention to art. Well, what can I say, I've never been really into graphicc novels, and I was in it only for the story, so the art problems don't spoil it much for me. I lolled at this

This makes me think. The size of roshar continent is roughly that of asia, and the distance between shinovar and alethkar roughly the one between europe and china. So maybe there was on roshar a Cristopherin Chiken who, after miscalculating the distance involved, attempted to reach alethkar from shinovar sailing westward. there was no continent to discover, and he sunk in a highstorm anyway.

I can't believe nobody opened a new thread for it (and if somebody did and I failed to notice, direct me to the proper place and delete this thread). On twitter there is a small video that's supposed to represent a chasm. It says that there is a full version on facebook. Is there a way to access that full version if one does not have facebook himself? And are there comments? I think the bottom looks too flat, the rest is great

I considered making a dalinar-related sequence, but I'm no good at it. I mean, I wouldn't even be able to stick a drawing of dalinar on top of another image without leaving white spaces all around, because I only can copy-paste rectangular parts of a drawing. So I'll try to describe the scenes. Bear with me. 1) Image: a couple is about to marry, dalinar is officiant. Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar likes every chance of uniting people 2) Image: a political map showing the various nations of europe, and dalinar with a flag of the european union Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar does not approve of brexit 3) Image: Dalinar sponsoring a tube of glue Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: radiant super glue: binding things since the first desolation 4) Image: Bill Clinton and Sarah Palin, with dalinar putting a hand on each of their shoulders Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar won't ever give up on a doomed cause 5) Image: a broken egg's shell, with dalinar trying to glue the pieces of the shell back together Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar takes this whole "unity" thing a bit too far 6) Image: on the left, dalinar with two bits of string. On the right, dalinar having tied them into a knot Text: UNITE THEM! Caption: Dalinar always tries to be helpful

I liked the political intrigue and the shallan madness plots. Part 5 was way too over the top and dragonballish to me, like one of those movies where the plot is sacrificed to special effects, though it was still a page turner. goes to figure different people like different things

meteorites that large exist, but they don't leave an island behind. no, they would melt the whole crust of the planet, and they may even throw enough stuff into orbit to make a new satellite. they certainly destroy all life on the planet; maybe a few extremophiles bacteria can survive in some sheltered locations, but i wouldn't count on it. And afterwards there would be a crater as big as half the planet behind.

can't agree more. During my PhD I worked with some dangerous stuff, including stuff that can cause cancer and arsenic compounds, and I was cool with them. I'd be very afraid to work with hydrofluoric acid. Once a guy dropped a glass of hydrofluoric acid on his trousers. he disrobed and showered immediately, he was in a chemical lab and was immediately helped in the best way available. One week later they amputated his legs. Two weeks later he died anyway. For comparison, once two workers fell into a tank of nitric acid (one of the most corrosive ones because the nitrate ion is a strong oxydizer) and they remained inside for a few minutes and they both survived. that hand was probably exposed to some low-concentration vapors of the stuff, and the guy got away with little. If aluminium investiture had anything to do with hydrofluoric acid, a lot of peoople would be poisoned by it

"Because of its strong affinity for oxygen, aluminium is almost never found in the elemental state; instead it is found in oxides or silicates. Feldspars, the most common group of minerals in the Earth's crust, are aluminosilicates. Native aluminium metal can only be found as a minor phase in low oxygen fugacity environments, such as the interiors of certain volcanoes " Barthelmy, D. "Aluminum Mineral Data". Mineralogy Database. Archived from the original on 4 July 2008. Retrieved 9 July 2008. I am a chemist myself, I know aluminium is very reactive with oxygen, but finding some of it native in low-oxygen environments makes sense. As we have different texts contradicting each other, we may dig deeper in research, or agree to let it be a maybe. At this point I don't know for sure but it makes at least enough sense that it may happen in theory Regardless ofwhether it actually works in real life, they had aluminium in the final empire without electricity, and I think I remember (probably mentioned in one of the era 2 books, because I can't find it in arcanum) that they dug aluminium from the ashmounts, so brandon at least believed my same source (which is on wikipedia, so it would be easily found by a writer wondering how a preindustrial society can have aluminium)

i toyed with this idea, it's one of the possibilities. It would however imply there is a second investiture sink element native aluminium can be found in some volcanoes in low-oxygen environments, so rosharans may have discovered it; it is further backed up by claims that during the final empire aluminium was mined from the ashmounts. Except there are no volcanoes on roshar, so there can't be that source of native aluminium. Maybe they got it from an asteroid and learned to soulcast it, or maybe it was a worldhopper, or even an herald

yeah, that's part of my point. They know aluminium. if the legendary metal was aluminium, they'd have recognized it as such. if those plates had been aluminium, they''d have recognized it as such - especially since ardents are learned. it seems a real stretch to assume otherwise. that's half the discrepancy. The other half is that if they have a legend of a metal that blocks shardblades, and they have this metal that can only be made by soulcasting, it's hard to imagine nobody would have actually tried to see if maybe the two metals were the same. good thinking that they could have more carbonaceous chondrite meteorites in the rosharan system. it would make it a bit less rare.