Cracknut

but you have to keep in mind when these books were written. A lot of what comes across as a trope or as cliche were not cliche at the time.

I haven't thought about that. Though most of the times I don't care about cliches/tropes, I just like whatever I like and dislike whatever I dislike. Even if born as a hero wasn't cliche back then I still hate it, though I'm gonna try to ignore it from now on

You talk about disliking character? I couldn't even muster up dislike for most of Malazan's characters. I simply could not bring myself to care one way or another if any of them lived or died.

Yes, exactly. Thats what I like most about it. I don't care about 90% of characters. I'm not trying to associate with them(though I can). I just enjoy plot twists, badass chitchat and action. Same can be told about First Law though what I like about Malazan is that its also High Fantasy and I really like 'fantasy' there. Its a different kind of fantasy, you shouldn't read it expecting epic good vs evil battle or something like that.

How far into the series did you get/are you?

Finished second book about month ago.

Ty Voidbringer. That was exactly what happened to me. On other hand I had watched Song of Ice and Fire and exactly knew what it was so when I started reading it I wasn't expecting much.

Btw after finishing The Great Hunt I started reading Malazan book of the Fallen and its one of the best fantasy books I've read.

And whyfor is this?

Taste.

1. I don't like it when characters are born as a heroes. With great powers and so on. I like it when they achieve it. Even more I don't like when there are 5 people like that in one little village and somehow they're all friends. Yes its that great wheel weaving patterns that way but still I just don't like that.

2. I didn't liked how Horn of Valere worked, it had feeling of fairy tale.

3. I hated almost every character, especially Rand even though I tried to like him.

4. Rand and Balzamon fighting in the sky.

Other details I can't remember... I'm going to finish it anyway. Hope it gets better.

WHen Sazed used the power of Harmony, he healed the planet and the people. THe underground bunkers were united and he left behind a legacy. Do we really believe that in the world before the empire those under ground caves were really that close together, while the empire happened to seperate them?

I don't think so. If I remember correctly all the people emerged in one place after Sazed fixed world though original caves weren't close. He would've done that to make it easier for people to create new world.

I wonder is like he returned the people to their original state, could he heal the terrismen so that they were no longer eunuchs?

He could've done that. He can't resurrect but he can heal. He fixed bodies of Vin and Elend in the end but he couldn't put in their souls or something like that.

He make spook a mistborn, why not make all mistings and skaa mistborn? It is the power of feruchemistry and allomancy combined which could make immortals. THis is why he make it so all metal arts only used only one now? The thing is what with them basicly restarting, they would need help refounding civiliisation.

If everyone turned into Mistborn there would've been chaos. Also Mistborn were ideal assassins/killers. That was what they did best. They were overpowered and this new world wasn't needing them. Immortality is still possible if you have right pair of abilities. Also I don't think he can create any amount of Mistings/Mistborns he wants.

We know that as the shard holder he had a host of knowledge, why did he he not make books of those to go with his collection? The full knowledge of the three metal arts would ensure alot of advances. THe other holder of shards had to know more, so why not share their knowledge as well.

People would use Hemalurgy. They would start killing each other for power, I'm pretty sure Sazed wouldn't want that. People know what they need to know about other two.

THe lord ruler created plants and microbes that made the vulcano areas more habital, would sazed have seed these forms of life near other vulcanoes that occured, to ensure they act as rememberance for the poor lord ruler?

He took everything away whatever Lord Ruler had done and placed planet where it should have been naturally. Then he created original plants using his own imagination.

Did any kandra or mistwraith survive? they were cave dwellers so potetnial there? Did sazed heal them or eliminate them? If the koloss were preserved, why not he mistraiths and their sentient cousins?

Yes they survived and now they work as Harmony's secret agents.

Every form of magic in the series (Barring Otaratal) is based in the warrens. There are theories espoused by certain characters within the novels as to the origin of the warrens, but they are oft disputed or misinterpreted. Without going into spoilers, I'll let you know that each god (or most of the gods) is the "king" or lord over a particular warren. Each god is attuned to that warren, and the means of access is varied. In the first book we meet Hairlock, who traverses the warrens and basically goes insane because of his dabbling in chaos. Characters can physically enter the warrens, which are realms in and of themselves. They can also channel the power of the warren, basically opening the warren and allowing some of the power to flow through them (This is how the illusionists create illusions, and how healers access Denul, or how some mages channel fire in attacks).

I don't believe that priests have a separate type of magic, they just ascribe the power they access via warren to that given to them by their god. Some gods don't allow people to access their warren, though some can do it anyways. The relationship between priests and their gods is explored a great deal later on in the series, and is more of a compact between the two (Midnight Tides to be exact).

I had idea of gods being 'kings of warrens' but I wasn't sure because there are gods like Rope and I'm not sure what kind of Warren God of Assassin would have. Especially if Shadow and Death both have been taken... Warren of Assassins? Nah, I'll find out that myself. Thanks.

Malazan's magic system is very well thought out, however the limits of the power aren't as readily available to the reader to understand. I loved the books but I wouldn't say that the system is one that is "Worthy" of brandon, just because of the tendency for power creep among the users of the magic. Perhaps it's only because I have read the series in it's entirety twice that I feel that way. I will say that the different warrens having different abilities is very thorough, but the extent of what makes one "powerful" with those warrens isn't very well defined. You have characters like Mallet, who has access to Denul and can heal pretty well, but we know that Quick Ben also has access to that warren, but he isn't seen using it, yet is regarded as exceptionally powerful as mages go.

As a caveat to that statement, the magic of Otaratal is the most well thought out in my opinion. It has defined limits, explicit benefits and a cost (Monetary, the source being limited and controlled).

I don't know much about it yet so... Though what I liked most were Warrens. They're like alternate universes, except they represent only one part of real world(darkness, chaos, etc). It may be worldbuilding though. And I thought there was two types of magic. One that Priests use, that comes from their god, beliefs and prayers. Other one that comes from Warrens and is used by Mages. Or something like that...

Well I'm not sure if anyone noticed this, but it's something that I picked up on one of my recent rereads of the series.

When we first meet our hero, he is Kote the innkeeper, who has changed his from Kvothe, not only that but he tells us that he picked this name because names are important. The exact words were "He had chosen the name carefully when he came to this place. He had taken a new name for most of the usual reasons, and for a few unusual ones as well, not the least of which was the fact that names were important to him".

This implies many things the biggest one being that he chose this particular name for particular reasons and that at least 2 of those reason are unusual. First I'd like to point out that "Kote" translates to "expect disaster".

[speaking to Kilvin]:“Do you know the saying ‘Chan Vaen edan Kote’?” I tried to puzzle it out. “Seven years... I don’t know Kote.”

“ ‘Expect disaster every seven years,’

It took me numerous reads before I caught that little piece of information.

Next I would like to bring to your attention the fact that Lanre changed his name to Alexel, and when he did this he gained power enough in naming to be as strong or stronger than Aleph (who spun the world out of the nameless void and gave everything a name) and Iax (who locked away the name of the moon).This implies that changing your name can drastically change things about you.

This brings me to my next point, that it is is possible to lock away a name. Kvothe even mentions that "The high king's name i written in a book of glass, hidden in a box of copper. And that box is locked away in a great iron chest..." which for some reason reminds me a great deal of Kvothes' Thrice Locked Chest. And even though he says while describing a fictional hero, there's always some truth in stories. We even hear of Iax locking away the name of the moon, sparking the creation war.

This all brings me to my theory that due to whatever happened in his past, Kvothe changed his name to "expect disaster"(Kote), one that he thought much more fitting, and locked his true name away in his chest. When he did this he lost all his great prowess in everything, and it causes everything he does now to end in disaster, as his name dictates he should expect.

This would explain why he is unable to perform sympathy, and why he suddenly couldn't fight off the two bandits with his Ketan. Judging by the description he was trying to perform the modified break lion that Celean had shown him, a moved that was designed to break the hold of a bigger, more powerful, opponent. Sure, you could explain the sympathy as him not being able to maintain the proper Alar, but that doesn't explain: Why he can't write his memoirs, Why he can't play music, and why he can't do Ketan. It also explains why he can't open a chest that he designed, even though he has the keys.

Anyway, just thought I'd share. And sorry for the disorganization. >.<

I agree with you but I believe in another version:

He hasn't locked his name in that chest. He locked everything that connected him to Kvothe. His sword, cloak, rings and most importantly his lute(Maybe his name too but then I can't come up with any way he could open that chest). Then he changed his name to Kote because something bad happened to him after he talked to Cthaeh. Names are important and changing names is dangerous. When he changed name he lost all his abilities. Now there are several problems/facts:

1. Chest can't be opened without 'high level' naming skills.

2. Everything that can bring back old Kvothe and his naming skills are locked inside that chest(except music).

3. He can't learn naming anew because he changed name. Kvothe meant 'to know', thats why he learned everything so easily. Also he's new name can be making it even harder.

4. I think only way for Kote to wake up real Kvothe in himself is music. Thats why every book starts with Silence of Three parts and strongest silence is Kvothe's. Because he doesn't has music anymore.

Every magic system from Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss. Especially Sympathy.

Malazan's magic system looks pretty cool so far. Finished second book last week.

0. Stormlight Archive (Won't chose between kkc and sa before both series are finished)

1. Kingkiller Chronicle

2. Mistborn

3. First Law

4. Demon Cycle

5. Night Angel

Malazan book of Fallen is going to be somewhere in top 5 too though I can't tell where before I read all ten books.

Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan

Tried reading it. Writing style was boring. Not really much fantasy for epic fantasy genre... I like books with black and gray morality/gritty realism but it wasn't as good at that as others I've read. Average book, Nothing best about it. I liked TV series though.

Writers tend to put their philosophy into their works. Brandon's is subtle, but he's deeply religious. Specifically he's mormon. One of the big things evident in all of his work is that there is always hope for those that try hard enough, that things get better. This is tied to his religious beliefs. As is a belief in free will, which is a part of what I just said.

I think I get what you're saying. I don't agree with it, but that might just be a difference in personal philosophies. While i'm not religous per-say I do believe in free will, and thus when I see something with future sight I tend to assume it is designed in a way that allows for free will unless the author says otherwise. Given Brandon's views I can't see him writing in a way that robs people of free will unless it's an important point within the story, which the exact metaphysics of Atium are not.

Nah you don't understand me... Idk it may be my English though. Last try:

Whatever you do. Free will or not. Its whatever 'future' is/was. Not because some god wrote down your future, not because theres some great prophecy binding you to it but because you chose to do that, you did that. It was your future whatever you did. You can't change 'whatever that is', not because you don't have free will, but because choice made with your free will also is part of that future.

Before I reply you should learn to us 'the' if you want to be easily intelligible. It may be unnecessary technically(the word being invented by Shakespeare from what I recall), but it makes your posts very hard to read and thus having a discussion with you very very annoying.

I don't buy Zane's overconfidence. Vin doesn't see the future. She predicts the future based on things happening in the present. Using Atium works the same way. You see things in the present that allow for knowledge of the future. Atium does not see the future it sees a possible future, or in the case of someone burning the right metals, all possible futures. Where it gets that information is implied to be based on thought. I say this because it never seems to account for the actions of anyone but the person being seen(hence not showing a person dying despite the fact they do within the allowable future window(until the fatal wound has been delivered.).

Now philosophically your explanation of how to "change the future" might make sense, but again, given Brandon's personal philosophy and the fact Vin tricked Atium, it does not stop free will. If what Atium showed can change then there has to be a way to change it. That change happened once. Thus it takes extraordinary levels of something to change what Atium saw. Those things are either A: Inhumanly fast perceptions(which is what is described) or inhumanly fast speed(which both were operating at to begin with. Those perceptions would be tied to mental speed. The last options are Atium and Electrum.

I'm sorry for my bad English.

You misunderstood me. I agree with first post. With enhanced mental speed it would've been easier to detect changes in Seer's body. But what I'm trying to say is that you can't change future without seeing it first. Not because its written in stone but because whatever you do, it is/was 'future'. You do it with free will or not you can't tell you changed whatever was going to happen or not, but most likely you did whatever you must have done according to future, if that makes sense. Also whenever you see future, it changes. You don't do anymore what you would've done otherwise and it starts chain reaction affecting whole world... in different degrees but still. Yes Atium shadows may not be 100% true but at least 99.9% because as far as we know every other time characters burned Atium everything happened according to the future it showed. Though I find version where 'Vin saw future through Zane's action' more awesome and interesting then 'just fighting skills'. Though I don't know how does Brandon's personal philosophy affect all of this.

She didn't see the future. She saw muscle twitches that hinted at his action. This is something done in fights at high levels. Atium burners will rarely if ever fight someone with that level of skill because anybody that good knows to run anyway or has an Atium countermeasure. Mental speed already allows for this to an extent by speeding up the ability percieve said twitches. But its rare in fights to do other than what you think. I suppose one thing to look for would be how Atium sees someone dying midfight... If it shows the person dying it is the future. If it shows them doing something despite the fact they are about to die its thought. I don't think there are any scenarios like that in the books though. Maybe at elends final stand...

Yes but I think Atium doesn't shows people dying only if Seer is the one who is killing. Because Seer changes future by using knowledge of future in his own advantage. And again about 'fighting skill and mental speed and so on': Zane's reaction was to future, not present. He was blocking attack that wasn't even launched yet. It happened because he was too confident in his own powers. Therefore he actually gave Vin information about future and as I said in posts above, only way to change 'future' is to know exactly what it is.

Lets say you're going to punch someone in face and he had no way of knowing that you were punching him in face(if not knowing the future) and before you even tried hitting him he covered his face. Of course you change your course and hit him in stomach. Its totally under Seer's powers to change 'future'. He can even tell his opponent before he does something that he knows what he's going to do and tell him what his reaction will be and how it will end. If that happens before Seer's opponent does something he's action will change even if he won't think about it and we'll get another set of shadows.

Its not WoT type 'future'. No string that lead you somewhere not caring about your will. It just shows whatever is going to happen. Without 'Atium' or any other way to look into future there is no way to change it. Whatever you do, whatever happens, that will be future. Will it be your free will or not.

Go watch movie named 'Next'. If I remember correctly it's explained well there.

And? Free will changes future? How would you know that your free will isn't 'the' future? You can't change future if you don't know exactly what it is. Otherwise whatever you do was always the future. Atium burner doesn't binds you to some future you don't want to be real. It just shows to seer what will be, is it someones free will or not. Only way to change that is to actually know the future.

I didn't meant that there is no free will and everyone does whatever written in some book of fates or w/e. I meant that free will won't help you to kick seer's chull.

Wow I hadn't made that connection but that definitely makes sense and that totally sounds like a Nightwatcher curse/boon situation! The only thing I'm not sure would work is that the Heralds decided not to go back to Damnation, so they kind of just decided to not accept the curse. Hmmm... If this is in fact true, then could everyone who recieved a curse from the Nightwatcher "decide" that it is no longer in effect, thus Dalinar could suddenly remembers shshsh again?

Yeah I thought about that exactly after posting it... Only explanation I came up with is that both, gift and curse was on all ten of them and as long as at least one herald endured hell(Most likely for all of them - '450-4500 theory') others could just walk away and stay immortal. Though its weak because I don't think heralds planned abandoning one of them or anything like that and as far as we know Taln's death was just an accident... Though if it wasn't... I hope Taln will get his own book.

There is no free will. Atium sees future. You can't trick Seer if you yourself can't see future. When both sides have Atium both see each others future therefore big number of shadows are created. X sees Y action in future and reacts, then Y sees X reaction and changes his action, then X sees how Y changed his actions and reacts again and so on. When Vin fought Zane she saw 'future' through Zane's actions and that in itself altered future.

'Future' isn't something written in stone. Every time Mistborn burns Atium he changes future. But you can't change it without being able to see future.

Giving humans immortality but also requiring them to spend most part of their immortal life into hell sounds like Nightwatcher to me. I don't think she's just a Spren, more likely splinter of shard of bargain or something so she could've had her own part in Oathpact.

But it clearly doesn't do that. If Atium saw an unchangeable future then Vin couldn't have tricked Zane's atium. Now, that could be her own natural speed and her mastery with Pewter allowed her to trick the atium, but I doubt it. If so Feruchemical speed should easily obliterate Atium users. The way the scene is written implies extreme mental speed being involved.(As well as physical speed.) Either way Atium visions are not set in stone, this has been proven.

Atium visions are not set in stone if both sides see future. Vin saw future through Zane's actions. Feruchemical Zinc would make it easier but it wouldn't work all the time even if physical speed matches between Feruchemist and Mistborn (though I'm sure Feruchemists can be a lot faster then Mistborns/pewter Mistings). Because it was Zane's mistake, he was too confident in his abilities. Seer can act in last moments, then even if his opponent reads his actions he won't have enough time to do anything. I don't think Atium gives special reflexes and forces Allomancer to act according to those reflexes. Tt just enhances Seer's mind so she/he can calculate where he should be, what he should do to successfully avoid/counterattack when its needed.

I don't think Shardblades worked that way from the beginning. And I don't think Midnight Essence is working that way whatever that is.

Its last desolation because people have forgotten about Voidbringers and they're not ready. Maybe Odium is stronger now but thats not the point to it. I think when there were ten heralds bound to Oathpact Desalotaions happened every 450 year. Now when there is only one Herald it took 4500 years so thats why humans have forgotten Desolations. + Heralds lied to them that they won.

“Ishar believes that so long as there is one of us still bound to the Oathpact, it may be enough.

There is a chance we might end the cycle of Desolations.”

If what I said above is right this quote makes sense because Heralds knew it would need more time to happen again but they knew in the end it would happen. They were just trying to deceive themselves.

Oathpact is a bit simpler imo. Honor had Shardblades(Maybe even back then it was Odiums but Humans back then lived with honor so it wasn't used the way it is used now. And it may be Odiums longshot to corrupt humanity), Heralds and Knight Radiants. Odium had Voidbringers. Midnight Essence was something else entirely. Desolations were matches between Odium and Honor. Honor needed Heralds to be 'immortal' so they could be there for every desolation but his abilities weren't enough for that. Odium on other hand, hated heralds and would torture them for centuries just for fun. So each time humans won, he(and maybe honor too) took those 10 guys and tortured them then resurrected them so they could fight again. Odium couldn't attack humans while heralds were in 'hell'. It wasn't about how much time heralds spent in hell but amount of pain they took. So when 9 heralds left, one left there had to take all of the pain and it took more time. After more then 4500 years Taln came back and soon last desolation comes.

There are other two shards and I'm pretty sure they would have to do something with all of this but we don't know much about them so nothing can be said for sure at this point.

Read 5 out of 6 books and in the end I was hating it. Why? Because main characters are unbelievable and story is repetitive. In each book when Hadrian needs his sword, he has left it somewhere or someone stole it or he had to give it to someone or he lost it somewhere and so on. Not to mention in each book one or both characters get imprisoned in some way. Why they get imprisoned is even more lame: They won't harm soldiers of evil guy because soldiers are innocent and its better to get killed(Book starts with this, and they would've been dead for sure if not for hand of god) than kill innocent men. Most irritating part about that is that Hadrian and Royce are described like good guy villain and bad guy villain. Srsly? Villains? These guys are Asian Good Guy Gregs...

Which books have you read?

No it doesn't includes Wheel of Time.

Just read the chapter where Mat summons Heroes with Horn of Valere. I thought they would be bound to one who sounded the Horn but they came to Rand and Balzamon told Rand that he sounded Horn. I'm really disappointed at this point because I really liked idea of Mat having all the coolest heroes bound to him... Could anyone explain how Horn works? or its just the way author wants.... sry for my bad English.

p.s I never posted here because I'm really bad with English(Reading I can handle but Grammar is a mishterioush thing for me when trying to say something)... though I'm a big fan of Brandon Sanderson and I think i have read every topic about his books here so I'm not really new here