Jack the Halls

Previously... A young boy named Roman is being targeted by a bounty hunter, the S.O.M. Meanwhile, Roman is recruited by a noblewoman who wants to escape her obligations to an organization known as The Great Library. In this chapter, I introduce my second (of 2) primary POV character. Also, I have attached a short prologue. I actually had nearly this same passage later (but with the rig leaving instead of arriving) but based on comments about the setting, I thought it would be better right up front. Plus, I think it works out thematically as well.

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

Hm... The plot thickens. I hadn't thought of treating the drop box as an alpha reader thing. Double hm...

Haha! People don't wait around for feedback? Drat. I check back here like 20 times a day... lol Couldn't there just be two separate sections in the Reading Excuses tab on the main forum page?

You're talking about alpha readers. In that case, I think the best thing to do is approach someone, one-on-one and ask, "Hey, will you be my alpha reader?" And in that case, you'd give your entire novel in one file. That way the person can set aside a day or three to read through it. I like what Brandon (either him or someone on WE) said about alpha readers vs writing group. They are two different monsters and should be treated as such.

After reading through all the pros and cons in both of these threads, I think perhaps the simplest (and best) solution might be staring us in the face. Reading Excuses 1 (Short Fiction) 3 - 5 Submissions per week. 0 - 5k word limit. Reading Excuses 2 (Long Fiction) 2 - 3 Submissions per week. 10k - 15k word limit. Personally, I need the routine of a weekly writing group rather than posting up stuff at all times. Without that schedule, I'm not sure how good I'd be at sticking with it.

I think what's happening is that it happens so often that it's actually losing its jolt. Once, twice, three times a jolt is good. But when it starts happening four, five, ten, fifteen, twenty, thirty times throughout the course of the story... You get what I'm saying. If I hadn't been reading this for writing group, I would have started skimming every time he started making an analogy because I knew A ) that there would be ever more and more coming and B ) that the narrator was going to admit that the analogy didn't make any sense anyway, so why bother reading it?

I'm in for sure, just confirm. Though, I doubt my feedback can ever be "short".

I tried listening to the audio book of American Gods. Perhaps it was the narrator I found boring? It's happened before. After reading this post, and the opinions of posters whose opinions I trust, I'll give it another try with my own eyeballs. Also, I probably should have clarified sooner, but I didn't mean to imply that Gaiman fans aren't avid readers or that avid readers don't like Gaiman. Both of those types of people already know where American Gods is in the store and don't have to ask me (plus, they probably already own it). There are certain books that are read by non-readers, and they only read those books. American Gods is one of them. Hunger Games right now is another. Harry Potter. These customers for some reason feel the need to point out that they don't read other books. I think it's because people still consider reading "uncool" or something. It's actually a testament to the book that it can draw such a wide audience especially so many years after it was released.

I... Don't even know what to say about this. I'm shocked, though I shouldn't be.

I've actually enjoyed the two Codex books I've read more than the three Dresden books, but I hear book 4 is where Dresden really kicks it up a notch. Bam! Spice-weasel.

- I like that he thinks Ambroj is worse than him and the capping factor is that she kills animals. - These people are in prison, killing other prisoners? Huh? - Why would he be proud of the metalminds' efficiency? - Why does anyone try to escape? Whatever government oversees this prison, it's obvious they don't care. Demanding release from the citizens of the colonies doesn't seem like it would work. - I get the feeling that this guy would know the difference between a metaphor and an analogy. - The prose are much tighter toward the beginning of the story. Around page 8, it starts getting somewhat sloppy. - I feel you jump back and forth between the story and backstory a bit too much. I assume you do this to avoid info-dumping, but instead of having a single info- dump to push through, I get info-splattered throughout the majority of the story. - A lot of the information you give us is unnecessary. That isn't to say that it's a bad thing that YOU know the history of the prison, even the orbit, but it should be in a separate file and not in the main text. In novels, we have the luxury of world building, even adding details that don't add to the plot in some way, but in a short story, you can't do that. My advice is to go back through and cut every piece of information that isn't directly pertinent to the plot of this story. You can probably cut back on at least a 1/3 of the pages, and your story will be better for it. - Him defending his analogies and whatnot feels more like YOU defending YOUR writing. Having it once or twice works well with the character, but you don't want to fall back on it too much. - I don't get a sense of setting. It's a prison. Then a junkyard. Then... Where? I don't know. How is it he can just wander around and yet Ambroj has to be stuck in a cell? - Why does he care about Ambroj if she's going to her death anyway? Also, you build her up like she's going to be important later, and then, poof. I have to admit, it took me by surprise, which is good, but I feel we spend too much time with her considering the poofiness. This goes back to the aforementioned unnecessary information. - Why are there human guards at all? - About halfway through that I don't know what the metalminds even look like. - What is the garbage? What do these prisoners actually do? I'm confused... Like, he escapes just by walking away? No big deal? I mean, he notices the lack of guards and stuff, and he seems happy to be out of there, but then later he's just searching for food? In the below freezing cold junkyard? - The word faggots feels out of character. Despite his crass and negatively sarcastic nature, I don't seem him as the type that is particularly hateful, if that makes sense. - The end of page 14, where the walrus reveals himself to be psychic, was really well done. - The analogies and similes and metaphors. There are WAY too many. How many different things did he compare the people who run the prison to? They were meat, then eggs, then rats, and a few others I believe. This happens throughout. He makes some sort of reference with everything and everybody, which isn't so bad, but when he's making two, three, or four different comparisons (like with the walrus guy at the end) it becomes too much. - Was he not trying to escape? Did I read that wrong? This walrus guard, is he a guard or not? Why does he trust the walrus? Is the guy sitting at a table eating or something? Was he specifically waiting for the narrator to come? I know there is another half to the story, but right now I don't really understand what's going on. I don't know. Maybe it's because this story feels like it starts multiple times. First I think it's about killing Ambroj. Wait. Nope. Then I think it's about escaping. Wait. Nope. Then it actually starts with him meeting the walrus guard.

I'd like to go again on the 9th, too. I'm wondering. How should I go about this writing group thing. Even if I went every week until the end of my novel (which I wouldn't expect since that would just be unfair) I hope to have it done and possibly submitted long before I'd be submitting the last chapters. What would you guys suggest?

I posted this on accident in James' thread somehow. Oops! Personally, I don't think the naked above the waste thing is a big deal. You're writing YA, not Middle-Grade. Let's face it. If a YA reader's mommy is still making sure the content of the book is "not too mature for my baby" then... Well, that's not the type of reader you should be writing toward anyway, right? What I find somewhat hilarious about our society is that this chapter is full of violence, and yet what draws the red flag? One line describing a warrior woman's clothing. It reminds me of a time when I was watching some really bloody war movie with a man and his small daughter. I couldn't believe they were letting her watch it, what with heads exploding and stuff, but she seemed used to it. When there was a KISSING (not sex, not nudity, but kissing) scene, the man covered his daughter's eyes until it was over.

Oh crap! My bad...

Personally, I don't think the naked above the waste thing is a big deal. You're writing YA, not Middle-Grade. Let's face it. If a YA reader's mommy is still making sure the content of the book is "not too mature for my baby" then... Well, that's not the type of reader you should be writing toward anyway, right? What I find somewhat hilarious about our society is that this chapter is full of violence, and yet what draws the red flag? One line describing a warrior woman's clothing. It reminds me of a time when I was watching some really bloody war movie with a man and his small daughter. I couldn't believe they were letting her watch it, what with heads exploding and stuff, but she seemed used to it. When there was a KISSING (not sex, not nudity, but kissing) scene, the man covered his daughter's eyes until it was over.

- I like that you open with a dreary scene and then do a couple switches right in a row by a) having him fight a girl, and then having the girl be a bad chull. First I think, based on the world "girl" that he doesn't want to fight her because of a Rand al'Thor type reason, but then we see that he doesn't want to fight her because she will destroy him. Nice. - Another good touch was having him make a fist the wrong way. However, this begs the questions, what kind of Watch is this that just lets in anyone who fights one of its members? By the end of the chapter, you make it clear that they don't even have to win. There is no training program? I think it would be much more believable if you had to work your way up to the fight. - I don't like the blow-by-blow nature of the fight. The first part, where his fist hits him when he tries to block, is great, but after that... I imagine she would basically destroy him before he even knew what had happened. And he definitely wouldn't feel each individual pain as it happened. In fact, I imagine he'd be down and out cold after the second blow, if Irna is really as good as is implied. - Why does she help him up? She's showing off up until she kicks his chull. Based on that, I figure she would have just walked back to the other watchmen, getting high-fives as she went. He certainly didn't do anything in the fight that would have gained her respect, unless not backing down counts (and I don't think it would with her, from the little I know of her). I don't know. It doesn't feel true to her character. - The arrow was surprising, but then it gets confusing. Are they just standing around where arrows might fall randomly? Why are there only two arrows? It all becomes quite muddy here and I don't know what is actually happening. What are the other guardsmen actually doing? Perhaps you meant to do this, to keep it muddy because Coil's mind is muddy (like the guy in white) but... I don't know. Where did the arrow come from? What is this wall? How did he get into the Watch if he lost? Confusion abound. - Another thing was him recognizing Irna. What? Why didn't he recognize her sooner? - I didn't get a feel for the setting either. Basically, I was picturing Castle Black, but I'm not sure if that's what you were going for, or if it just came across that way. - Why wouldn't Hael tell Coil about how Boar will take a fall?

Yados hit the major points. I don't feel like either of the chapters has a focus. I like what Brandon said about determining where a chapter begins and ends. Ask yourself, What does this chapter accomplish? What is this chapter FOR? Furthering the plot is not enough to justify a chapter. I'm told that the world is horrible, but I don't see it. I kept asking myself, Why is that there? Like the tapestry that A doesn't notice but that we get a detailed description of. And why is Z even present at this conference that could be considered treason? I highly doubt, in this bloodthirsty world you describe, that the entire conversation in chapter 2 would happen in Z's presence at all. Not to mention, it seems like it's already decided that Dalen is coming to teach Z, so why do they talk as if it isn't already decided? Something else that threw me out of the story were the adjectives, especially non-specific ones like "great" which you use about 10 times in the first few pages. It's hard to really critique further because I'm not sure what the scope of this story is yet, or what your planning to do. I feel there is probably information here that can be held back until a later chapter, but I can't pinpoint it at this time. For all I know A and Z both have huge and different character arcs, and both princesses as well. Based on this alone, though, I don't see the need of A at all, or the barren princess. Another thing I have to point out is the redundancy. For instance, considering the length of the chapters, you only needed to explain that the firstborn gets a Krathsteel sword once.

I really like this idea. Now that I'm "done" with Touching Metal (or at least in the drafting stages), I've been working on another novel that is only a basic outline right now. So... Yeah, totally.

Here's the second chapter in my current novel Touching Metal. Previously... A man in a Hawaiian shirt (with his newest wife in toe) is at a carnival food court, staking out his target - the young vendor of a nearby corn dog cart. Frustratingly, he is powerless to act against his target until his benefactor gives him the green light.

Thanks for the feedback, guys! I feel like this chapter will be much better when I go back through and make the necessary changes. Also, I feel like my next chapter is better because of it as well. Hopefully, we can get some more back and forth going once we get to the later chapters, but for now, suffice it to say that you've been very helpful. Thanks again!

Sorry about the late reply here! CJ makes some good points that I reiterate simply for emphasis. Pages 1- 4 - I don't want to beat a dead horse, but I think you really need to hang a lantern on this whole language thing. In Doctor Who, the TARDIS translates. In Farscape there are translator microbes. I don't think those would work for your story, but they're time travelers right? Why couldn't they go forward in time, pick up Rosetta Stone v 345 that helps you learn a language in a week or something? - Why wouldn't he just go look something (like Stocism) up that he didn't understand so that his journal would be more accurate? I say this because you sort of breeze over the Stoicism part. - Descriptions. They show up and talk to Zero. What does he look like? What does his home look like? One of the main things I like about time travel stories is feeling like I have been transported in time. This happens with all of the people they visit in this chapter. - I like that it's the same book. Pages 5 - 9 - I feel more description about the interior of the house is necessary. I imagine his room is very important to him because he probably spends a LOT of time in there, so it would be important to him. Yet so far we have yet to get a mention. Stuff like the part about the water later. - How come I feel like you should have scenes when they are traveling? You specifically state that it takes a while to get to a different time, yet it feels like they are jumping in and out without a wait. - Like in the first part, I feel like both of your encounters with Greats are somewhat redundant. The information, or lack of information, seems redundant. Personally, I feel like if you just had Socrates, one of the first two in this part, and Shakespeare (my favorite part by far), that you could get across everything you have so far in about half the pages. Pages 10 - 13 - The Mom thing is good, but I'm going to have to throw out a show vs tell here. Show us him trying to call her mom earlier and have her correct him. I also feel like there should be a reason that she allows him to call her Mom now. Like, she should see something in him that she didn't before. Or something. - We get a little bit more scenery inside the house here, which is good. The fact that the clothes are in a pile is a good example of showing instead of telling. I'm able to deduce that Mom is either a) overly preoccupied, or at least messy. (Though she does scold him about a messy room, so...) - Small question. Why aren't these Greats inventing books one they see one? - Does he have some sort of recording device so he can transcribe? - So it isn't all in his father's hand? I'm still a little confused why it took them 5 years to get on this trail. - The bacon part is great. Pages 14 - 19 - I like that he seems far smarter and more mature in this part. Picking up on Bacon wanting a bribe, for instance. - Why is it unlikely that there is another time machine out there? Pages 20 - 26 - As to what C said about the journal-style. This is a journal, yet I don't really know anything about Isaac or how he feels about all this. I don't even get the impression that he wants to find his dad. The part about his mom getting on him for not cleaning his room is the only real mother/son aspect to their relationship that I've seen so far. And I agree that their adventures seem rather dull, especially since they seem to only stay in one place for a few minutes, tops. If the boredom weighs on Isaac, and it shows in the journal, it might be a bit different.

I'd like to submit chapter 2 on July 2 please.

I just read Monstrumologist by Rick Yancey. That was a good, quick page turner (and blood curdler). Have you read Pratchett? He's always the safest bet for me when I want an in-between book. Really, it's almost like every other book is just an in-between book since I always come back to Pratchett. I'm also really getting into the classic SF. I'm reading Venus Plus X by Sturgeon (what I'm told is "literary" SF) and I got done with Gateway by Pohl. And, of course, you can never go wrong with some Bradbury. Good stuff.

I read on the computer so I can switch between files and write my thoughts down as I read as well as after I read. It doesn't matter what format it's in to me, but I have no problem submitting my future works in the format people most want! I mean, I don't see why I couldn't send it in multiple formats, either. So PDF seems popular. Any others? I know PDF is impossible to read on my Kindle, but I use Calibre so .mobi is doable, as well as any other format.