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11 minutes ago, RShara said:

Those abilities are part of the spiritweb, and we have a WoB that creating a Lifeless is like creating a fake soul for the person. So I don't think that the abilities carry over. Maybe some memories and such do, since memories likely are part of the physical brain (too), but I doubt any spiritweb-linked powers would. Maaaaaayyyyyybe slightly more likely if the person was made Lifeless with their own Breath, but since only Nalthians are born with Breath, that would make it even more unlikely.

 

i was thinking their bodies would remember the spiritweb. Since continued use of an ability leaves a physical change in the user I thought the breath might be able to work backwards off of that... but what youre saying seems more likely. I guess spiking them should still work though, right?

Like would a mistborn turned lifeless still be able to burning metal? would a lifeless Singer/Parshendi be able to change forms? a lifeless elantrian create aons? If not surely you can spike some of these abilities in. I can't find anything confirming or denying this.

The book describing the heralds as Patrons is what's most fitting. Greatly honored (and probably obeyed), but not really apart of the formal leadership.

leadership was probably different depending on the order. I remember reading that the Windrunners had a "strict hierarchy", which makes sense, but I have a hard time imagining lightweavers like Shallan take orders like a windrunner would. 

i like the theory that the ten fools are disgraced radiants, but I dont think the heralds set them up. seems a little convoluted and petty.  they had the Fused and torture on Braize to be worried about. why bother getting in to melodrama  with people who'd most likely be long dead by time you returned?

13 hours ago, Karger said:

Why not do something more reckoner style and have them use tech to counter the mistborn's abilities and put little or no powered people on the team?

there probably will be modern hazekillers. Armed with special aluminum tech and the like, but I dont see why they cant be both.

8 hours ago, I think I am here. said:

Chromium Ferring. It would be a nice insight into how exactly luck and Fortune work. Probably the comic relief. Lots of luck puns.

Honestly, I think those five are enough. Heck, even in Era 2 we only have MeLaan, Wax, Wayne, Steris and Marasi. But if we want to include 3 more I’d suggest they be side characters.

The chromium ferring is  blacklisted and from every gambling den in Elendel. Luck probably doesnt work that way, but the running joke can be that the average scadrian understands fortune about as much we do or less so.

5 might be enough. I just think back to Vin dropping mistings like it was nothing so i imagine they'll need quite a bit of help. it all depends on the counter measures they'll have developed against allomancers, but i cant imagine theres going to be a time where theres a straight forward way of dealing with a mistborn. didnt brandon also say that allomancy would get stronger in the future?

43 minutes ago, Invocation said:

Probably an A-Tin, an F-Pewter, an A-Bronze, an A-Brass and/or Zinc, F- and A-Steel, and probably F-Connection as well.

interesting choices. I have a hard time imagining A-tin being all that useful in a modern setting. especially since F-tin would let you alternate between senses. How would connection be useful for in this scenario?

I think a Slider would be vital for a team like this.

I've been thinking about the Era 3 cast. Specifically the squad thats going to try and take down the mistborn killer. What team of mistings/ferryings do you guys think has the best chance of tracking and then defeating a skilled mistborn? I'm imagining a team of 8 people, as homage to kelsier's orginal crew (OreSeur does not count  ). lets limit ourselves to 1 twinborn so this doesnt get too crazy. We know one of them is a terris nicroburst girl. Any ideas for the rest? 

"A phantom sense called to him, a desire to continue killing, to revel in the butchery. Szeth rejected it, sick. He had never enjoyed this. He could never enjoy this."

chapter 118

On 1/29/2019 at 0:15 PM, Kon-Tiki said:

Unfortunately, Kaladin and Dalinar are really the only two Radiants we've seen who've been in a position to feel the Thrill. And yeah you're right about the name, but Nergaoul did go to Jah Keved for the civil war in Vedenar

No Szeth felt it too at the Battle of Thaylen, but he just reacted in disgust. You could assume it's because of his shin culture and his experience with murder that caused the reaction.

My theory is that certain radiant orders have a natural affinity/immunity to corresponding Unmade. Windrunners have a immunity to Nergaoul and Lightweavers have an affinity with Re-shephir. It would explain Shallan's success against Re-shephir despite her inexperiance, but being fairly ineffective when confronting Ashertmarn. it would also explain why Dalinar's bond didn't seem to protect him at all from Nergaoul and why he couldn't sense anything wrong with the Urithiru while Re-shephir controlled it's central gemstone thing.

Before someone brings up Renarin sensing something wrong, I'll also add that it doesn't have to be a 1:1 correlation (wouldnt add up anyways). Just that some orders are more likely to be successful against certain Unmade than others. For example: perhaps for Skybreakers, instead of total immunity, disgust is their typical reaction to the thrill.

3 minutes ago, Ashspren said:

When I read the scene, I visualized Kaladin being off in the distance, and definitely out of earshot. He's practicing his flying, meanwhile Adolin and Shallan are indoors, inside the palace. 

Nah, they were in some Alleyway. And yeah Kaladin isnt directly above them lol. He cant hear them or anything, but they all have a clear view of eachother.

Big problem with ASK is that some of the imagery is more than a little confusing... Like in the scene where Adolin confronts Shallan regarding her feelings for Kaladin. They go off somewhere private to talk, and we see that Kaladin is not to far off looming over them as Adolin and Shallan reaffirm their love for eachother. Now maybe this is because I'm looking at this too much like a shot in a movie, but the message I'm getting from that definitely isn't "everyone has moved on and that's it". Especially considering how easy it would have for Brandon to have Adolin and Shallan talk in a more private/intamite setting. Of course I dont know if that means anything will continue, but it just seems odd to me.

also

Quote

Adolin wrapped his arms around Shallan from behind.

“It looks beautiful.”

“You look beautiful,” she replied.

“You are beautiful.”

“Only because you’re here. Without you, I fade.”

Brandon is trolling here right? This is bad on purpose right? 

A relatively popular theory here is that Shalash will end up taking up the oaths of the Dustbringer radiants. While I'm not opposed to this theory the assumption that Shalash will become the dustbringer because of her new hobby of destroyering art seems a bit shallow to me... Instead I think Taln could be our dustbringer and Shalash the stoneward.

I think it makes more sense to look at Ash and Taln's current weeknesses along with the divine attributes that define their potential orders (granted we don't fully understand how some of these apply yet).

First off, the divine attributes associated with the Dustbringers are "Brave and Obedient". Taln is a much different man from who he was before. In addition to his ramblings we now know that he's become a coward.

Quote

The last glimmers of his lucidity had faded. Once, nothing would have kept him from the battlefield when other men died. Today, he had hidden and whimpered during the fighting.

-Chapter 121

I don't think its a stretch to say that him working through his madness (with help from Ash) and finding his courage again is all but garanteed. Him overcoming his fear of battle would and swearing the dustbringer ideals fit well together.

The divine attributes of the Stonewards are "Dependable and Resourceful". Now that the 2 of them have reunited I think its safe assume that Ash will be looking after and essentially babysitting Taln through his madness. As a redemption arc, it'd make sense to have one of the people that abandoned him be his rock in his time of need. This could be the perfect thing to get a stoneward spren's attention. Of course knowing Brandon none of this will be this straight forward, but you get the point.

Every spanreed conversation with Tukar

Deep down I think we all know that Kaladin's going to die a virgin  

17 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

This is not true, one of the keys to breaking the dawnchant was that Dalinar slipped into a different dialect during the Purelake vision where they were chasing a corrupted spren (and we got our first view of living thunderclast).

Yeah, you're right I forgot about that. In my defense it was just a quick guess.
 

Like I said before. If you can't explain why the Fused have existed for centuries before the Knight radiant then your theory doesn't work. This is one thing we know with certainty. Your reasoning about a current loose understanding of the timeline doesnt work here.

Anyways this thread was supposed to be about voidbinding and I don't want to hijack it with this topic anymore. If you ever work out what I said above and want to formulate your theory in to a thread, feel free to tag me.  

44 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

we are viewing the history of Roshar through the glass darkly, much is being obfuscated to create the exact uncertainty that we are disputing here.

True, but there are things that we know with certainty 
1. the Dawnchant the oldest known language on roshar

2. It was the language the singers were speaking when the humans first arrived

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/175-oathbringer-houston-signing/#e8356

44 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

The whole point of the Ellista interlude is to show that the Dawnchant, at the time of written records, was used exclusively for writing. Local dialects and languages already existed, they were being phonetically transcibed into the dawnchant because that was the syllabic language that was common to Roshar. All I'm trying to say is that the fused could potentially be KRs, and I don't think the dawnchant or the Eila Stele disprove this theory.

Yes this is true, but you said was that there were no written records before the Aharietiam and we have more than enough proof to know that this isn't true. I mentioned the dawnchant intially because it seems more plausible the KR wouldn't be speaking it, but I'll admit that that claim is hard to prove so I'll drop it.
 

My main argument is that the Fused pre-date both the KR and the Oathpack. For your theory to work you have to adress that. The most plausible case I see for this theory is that the insane Fused are the former radiants, but even that is really speculative.

44 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

If the dawnchant was phased out before Aharietiam why can Navani use the utterings of Dalinar in the throes of his vision to crack the Dawnchant if he isn't in fact speaking in the dawnchant?

Not sure. Honor prepared the visions so maybe it was intentional. You yourself have said that the people all over Roshar were speaking in different dialects and languages yet, no matter where he goes, Navani hears it on the other side as ''The Dawnchant''. 

3 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

The I-2 Interlude with Ellista shows that the Dawnchant was the written lingua franca after Aharietiam, prior to that there are really no written records

Nope. We know more about the Dawnsingers now then Ellista did in that interlude. Besides that not what she said... She said that by the time of the Aharietiam people had already stopped speaking the Dawnchant for milennia (she assumes that it was written by humans, but by part 4 we know that isnt true). Also, where are you getting the ''no written records'' thing from? The Dawnsingers wrote the Eila Stele (the oldest know document on Roshar) so that can't be true

Eila Stele

Quote

These Voidbringers know no songs. They cannot hear Roshar, and where they go, they bring silence. They look soft, with no shell, but they are hard. They have but one heart, and it cannot ever live.

It's probable that humans adopted parts of the Dawnchant later on to form their modern day languages though.

16 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

The desire to exterminate all humans might be because these cognitive shadow KRs have been broken by Odium, because of their high level of investiture they linger longer in the Cognitive Realm before transitioning to the Great Beyond, and because they are Invested with Odium (they are his people)

Maybe its possible he started doing this later on, but that's definately not the origins of the Fused. Like I said before we know that they pre-date the KR.

also doesnt explain why the Fused care some much about ancient Singer culture...

23 hours ago, Awesomness said:

Passionate about beauty and nature ---> ?? some almost forgotten trait

This isn't really true. The first thing she does in Kholinar is study and document the corrupted spren. She the documents the apperance of the spren in Shadesmar too.

22 hours ago, Diomedes said:

Veil or Radiant don`t seem to have any artistic talent as shown by the mixed sketchbook

I don't know about that... Veil draws sketches perfectly fine, in WoR, for Mraize. You could say that at the time she hadn't factured in to Veil yet, but we dont really have a specific moment for when Veil was ''born''. I think that time (I think it was her 3rd or 4th apperance) is good enough to say she had become a person in Shallan's mind.

To be fair we don't really even know what voidbinding is yet. Are Listener forms with voidspren voidbinding? If so how would they fit in to the voidbinding chart we have. I think it's safe to say Renarins future sight is voidbinding, but what about the Fused? they've been using the conventional surges so far. Maybe anything involving Odiums investiture is considered voidbinding?

23 minutes ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

I have been speculating that the Fused might not be Ancient listeners, but rather KRs that have been corrupted by Odium

that wouldnt make sense for most of them. We know that the Fused have existed longer than the KR orders themselves; Venli has to speak to them in the Dawnchant (the ancient singer language); they express disapproval towards the new singers for acting like humans; and you know their desire to exterminate all of humanity...

The Stormfather told Dalinar that the Heralds were warned by Honor not to linger after a desolation ended. At first I thought this was just about putting the oathpack in danger, but perhaps this affected their psyches as well? Jezrien is broken at the end of the last desolation, but he still seems a lot more stable there then 4 thousand years later.

17 hours ago, FuzzyWordsmith said:

And I'll be honest, Syladin was probably a better ship than Shadolin, all things considered.

Well it'd be more entertaining at least, but that's not hard.

Thank Adonalsium, that ship is dead.

32 minutes ago, A Dopey Spren said:

And is gambling and hookers considered honourable? Hmm... 

I don't know about gambling, but considering Sly's enthusiasm getting laid seems to have the honorspren stamp of approval

What other possibilities are there?