Morsk

I've only studied psychology as my minor.

I have never thought Shallan has DID. Even in Book 1, it looks like she knows what happened but chooses not to think about it. That's just anxiety. When we do learn about her history in Book 2, it looks exactly like PTSD to me. She killed someone and got PTSD. I think it's great that Brandon portrays someone getting PTSD from killing in self-defense, not the more common portrayals of child abuse or witnessing combat. Shallan was also abused, but she had PTSD before her father became abusive. She had it immediately from killing her mother, from a single traumatic event, and didn't even talk for years afterwards.

Looking at Arcanum now, I don't understand the Q&A about whether Rand visited "the Wise Women". I can't make sense of the audio, but that just doesn't make sense as a WoT question. "Wise Women" is a local term for female healers, and not really part of Rand's story. "Wise Ones" is a larger group Rand has a lot of contact with, but there's no mystery about whether he "went to" them.

My guess is the question is asking about the ending:

I'm late replying to this, but I think it's forgiveness Odium can't understand, the same way Honor was unable to consider the Heralds breaking their oaths. And Odium is clever, and tries to work around this by making people do things so horrible they won't be forgiven. But if they're forgiven anyway, he's in uncharged uncharted territory where he can't see the future and his plans fall apart.

It also helps smooth over ridiculous things, like people being okay with Dalinar and Szeth's crimes. If forgiveness is the only way to fight Odium, I don't need as much suspension of disbelief here. (Dalinar forgiving Szeth, I can buy, because Dalinar is so desperate for forgiveness himself that he'd do desperate things. Everyone else, though...)

I haven't seen these other places, where Brandon mentions not being allowed to bring back Eshonai.

How likely is it that fandom killed her, by complaining about Jasnah and Szeth, and demanding more death? I wonder if we killed anyone else besides...

Anime fans are the patriarchy? This must be some black hole created by too many memes converging.

5 hours ago, hoiditthroughthegrapevine said:

I am pretty sure this is the story of Hoid stealing Adonalsium prior to the Shattering of Adonalsium.

I agree, especially because of the Original Sin parallel that I didn't notice myself, haha. That would make it a bit too important to be a Roshar story. Also it's one thing to say that humans committing Original Sin was part of God's plan, another thing entirely to say that human colonists displacing natives was all for the best in the end. I don't Hoid would mean the latter.

edit: Er, I should say I agree it's Hoid stealing a little piece of Adonalsium, that went on to inspire whatever conflict happened afterwards, with people thinking big about stealing the whole thing. But I don't think Adonalsium is going to fit in a single gem a person can wear.

9 hours ago, teknopathetic said:

One thing that blows me away about this is that the story was written by someone of Christian (ish) faith. This story has huge parallels to the doctrine of Original Sin (and other greek/world examples), but the discussion is about how such a sin was necessary and just. I don't know much about the beliefs of Brandon's branch of faith, but this story does not read like a Catholic's (something I am more familiar with) understanding of Original SIn.

I think this is normal for LDS, Brandon's religion. I've only read about it, but it has more positive views of The Fall, either that it was supposed to happen, or that some of the consequences were good and had to happen anyway, etc. This might be a good summary... I mean, it's from lds.org so it can't be that off. I hope.

1 hour ago, Nymeros said:

What's with the crazy laughing fit when he reached the lumberyard?

I don't remember this perfectly, but I think it was dramatic irony. They ordered him to carry ladders for an assault against humans, as a slave to listeners. It's the opposite of how he used to carry bridges. And the person giving the order doesn't realize how ironic it is.

It's my favorite Stormlight book, but it isn't The Emperor's Soul, so 9/10.

I actually liked Dalinar's flashbacks; this is the biggest improvement on prior books to me. With Stormlight 1 & 2 flashbacks, it was "Let's read about a powerless child getting bullied or abused for 100 pages!" No thanks. Especially not for the 3rd time in a row. Dalinar actually had agency, created his own problems, and did interesting things in the flashbacks. The only part I didn't like was Adolin & Renarin fighting the Thunderclast. Compared to all the other action scenes happening at the same time, it was boring.

I do wonder if fandom killed Eshonai, by complaining about Jasnah and Szeth surviving. Did Brandon kill her and give her story to Venli, as a way of placating readers who wanted more deaths?..

44 minutes ago, The Allomantic Metalhead said:

I have Asperger's, and knew for a while (ever since BoM) that Steris was like me in that way, and I was beginning to suspect Jasnah, but I had no idea about Renarin. I am very glad to have people with my condition and ones like it represented. I only recently started Oathbringer.

Resist the spoilers!

Anyway you reminded me of these two conflicting WoBs about Renarin and autism, I thought I'd link:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/227-rithmatist-denver-signing/#e7099

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/72-shadows-of-self-san-diego-signing/#e5714

It sounds like Brandon changed his mind, and is going to increase the portrayal of autism, but we haven't seen much yet. Steris has obvious difficulties; Renarin just gets called weird. There must be more, but we don't have enough time with him to see.

Interesting; we haven't seen anyone on Roshar taken by the Beyond yet, except I think Jezrien -- "It's taking me!" -- but he's too unusual to generalize from. Characters spent a ton of time in Shadesmar around areas people were fighting, but we never saw it once.

Do we have people hearing screams from murder victims on any other cosmere world? That could be our clue that Roshar is different. I figured it was the Spiritual Realm remembering people after they're gone, and them being connected to their murderer. But perhaps it's more.

I wish I could set Amazon to text me when the book is out...

edit: I spoke to soon; I think it's starting now!

1 hour ago, Harbour said:

Just like the Eve i searched for some spoilers for OB part 2 and suddenly found quite a few of them. Now i feel myself guilty and sinful. Dammit.

Is 17th Shard safe, or would it be best to stay away from here until after the release? I don't know why I'm even in this thread; I have a video game I can play... But I can't stop thinking about Shallan and Re-Shephir.

1 hour ago, Rider of Storms said:

I predict that Shallan chooses the Ghostbloods, and Jasnah is forced to kill her.

She could try. Jasnah would be the second "mother" to try to kill Shallan, pushing her into the arms of Re-Shephir, who's waiting to love and embrace her. It might end very poorly.

6 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

Uhh, Shalladin threads? More like those fanatical Shadolin shippers are taking over the Shard! I AM OFFEND! BOOTS!

It took years to get where we are today. Shallarin used to be the favorite. It still gives more google matches than any other.

4 hours ago, What's a Seawolf? said:

I can't imagine such a reaction unless someone dies or turns evil/is forcibly controlled via forced removal and replacement of a bond.

It could be an explicit and completely gratuitous sex scene. I mean, not really. But I'm going to pretend that's what it is, because it will stall my brain from reasoning out who's at most risk of dying, etc. Only 8 more days!

Quote

There are moments of victory where I whooped with joy

Is this a clue that Parts 2-5 continue to use the word "whooped", enough that it was pushed to the front of the reviewer's vocabulary? Because I noticed it enough in Part 1.

"Re-Shephir, the Midnight Mother, giving birth to abominations with her essence so dark, so terrible, so consuming. She is here! She watches me die!"

essence so dark = Midnight Essence

Strange that someone would have this vision in Taravangian's hospital though. Was Re-Shephir there recently, before going to Urithiru? Or was the vision seeing the death of a second, different person, in a different place?

1 hour ago, aemetha said:

I think what Shallan is doing is something only possible for a character in a fantasy novel with the same or a similar set of abilities. What I am certain of however is that it cannot be compared with DID because of the simple fact that Shallan is consciously choosing it. DID is an unconscious response to trauma, it is not something that is at any point consciously chosen by the sufferer.

I also think it's magical; she's using her powers to cope, in a dysfucntional way. Like an addiction, or personality disorder, but one we don't have on Earth. I don't think she has PTSD because she's too high-functioning. Or maybe "real Shallan" has PTSD, and she uses magic to make personas that don't have it.

Her memory "loss" is just denial; there's no need for fancier explanations. We see her PoV, as she approaches painful memories, then puts them out of mind and carries on as if nothing happened. That's denial. Repressed memories probably aren't real, but if they were, they're supposed to be something the person is completely unaware of. Shallan knows what happened, but avoids it.

If this was Wheel of Time, Kaladin would be dead but we wouldn't find out for 6 books, and when we did find out it would be in the glossary.

If I still lived in the high-crime neighborhood I used to, I absolutely would. Not only could anything left outside be stolen, but a successful theft would embolden thieves to try again, hurting more people. I'd feel a responsibility to keep things away from thieves, so as not to encourage crime.

edit: I hasten to add that I wouldn't generalize this to other "victim blaming". It's simply my experience, living in an area with thefts.

Why does anyone want Shallan to become an alcoholic? Is this something I missed, when I wasn't reading threads for the earlier chapters?

I'm not excited about Adolin facing any "consequences" for the murder. The murder was funny. Sadeas was a boring villain, who'd just threatened to spend all of Book 3 doing the same tedious stuff he'd done in Book 2. One page later, he was dead. I laughed.

I'm hoping he talks to Shallan about it, and they work together covering up the murder. Also they're two of the only people who'll understand each other on this, and be able to talk about their murders. And discuss whether trying for Amaram is worth it, or if murder causes more problems than it solves.

I think they're like Hermes' caduceus, a symbol that she can travel where she pleases, and is welcome anywhere. I think she's styled as a messenger goddess. They might stand for 4 specific things, like trade, diplomacy, ... but I couldn't guess exactly what.

Vedel might be styled after a messenger goddess, with the keys her version of Hermes' caduceus. They might represent diplomacy, trade, etc. And generally that she's welcome anywhere. The Edgedancer oaths seem styled after diplomacy.