OathKeeper

@maxal, Now I really hope I'm right, just to show you one of the thousand satisfactory growth arcs possible that don't include Adolin surgebinding. JK, I just like that story best for him. Yes, yes I am also thinking in terms of character growth and I still find that the most interesting AND plenty dynamic. I can't imagine all the specifics of what growth that would entail, but then, that's Brandon's job to think up, not mine. But two guaranteed categories would be internal/emotional growth and enormous changes to all of his defining relationships. Again, HE'S INVESTIGATING THE MURDER HE COMMITTED. You still can't imagine any fun development for his character without him bonding a spren? It seems like character growth to you can only be measured in terms of one's ability to kill people or use magic... But seriously come mid-November we'll see if he's surgebinding, definitively not, or if it's open ended for future books. If it's the first, I hope you quote me on this in an I-told-you-so-post. If it's the second, that's what I'll do to you in a good-natured way, I swear. If it's the third, I'll just concede out of boredom with the topic.

I'll be disappointed if Jasnah doesn't take advantage of the facts that 1) everyone thinks she's dead and 2) the most urgent parts of her message have already been discovered. That + elsecalling and she is the perfect intelligence officer for Dalinar. Hope she contacts him privately before coming out in the open. Maybe she can do some recon to check out the Sons of Honor/diagram/ghostbloods

=-O Oh rust. KR have been quite splendidly infiltrated. 70% joking, 30% borrowing @Rasha's tinfoil hat. When I first read ch. 4 my first thought was "What if this is a hint about Navani's intentions?" Then Stormfather points out that she's broken oaths before and well...

I've also thought along these lines. It seems cheap to have spent his life mastering a skill for healing, only to get a power that makes all his experience obsolete, but I guess his profession is somewhat obsolete either way! And it will be nice that he can preserve stormlight while healing by using conventional medicine on the minor injuries. I've thought since WoK that he was an ideal candidate. I think he was plenty broken by how the town turned on him and then his sons being drafted and then presumed dead. Your point about Syl is interesting. That's the best explanation I've heard for why Brandon threw us that clue about her knowing Kal's parents. What about Hesina? She seemed totally unfazed but ecstatic when Kaladin levitated. The description came across to me as being familiar with what's happening.

I was thinking EXACTLY that. I think he spends almost the duration of the book in Alethkar, primarily in Kholinar. The rebellion will put him in an interesting position, being both light eyed and dark. Then whatever his success is in forming some sort of peace, and perhaps tearing down walls of prejudice, he brings that solution to Uruthiru.

@maxal I want to first give you all due respect. Your posts color you as smart, creative, and contemplative. And your reasoning for Adolin forming a nahel bond are solid for the most part. That said, here are a few points of contention: 1.) There's a logical fallacy in your reasoning about probability. All the evidence you give for him being chosen can lead one to conclude that he is far more likely to be chosen than a random other person, but not more likely to be chosen than NOT to be chosen. Think in terms of a rare hereditary trait like a woman bearing twins. If her mom had twins and her grandma had twins, she is more likely to have twins than the average pregnant woman. Even so, the probability of having twins is low, just far higher than average. Adolin is more likely than some random dude, but we actually don't know if he is more likely to be bonded than to not be. We know too little about the process of spren choosing humans to say either way. Sorry to be nitpicky, but I studied stats and probability in college and this fallacy is a pet peeve. 2.) My more important point is based on character arc. I don't blame you for not seeing a good non-radiant arc for him. It's up to each of our imaginations, after all. So here's what I see: everyone around Adolin is growing in terms of magic and oaths. He has to combat feelings of inadequacy more and more as the others grow in competence, including his brother that he used to have to protect. So Adolin finds other ways to grow. He represents to the reader the truth that a non-radiant can be equally involved in fighting Odium. He makes choices relating to his murder of Sadeas. Either he owns up and takes responsibility or he keeps it hidden and is discovered. His relationships are strained. If he's exiled he finds a way to contribute to the cause from the outside. If he's forgiven, he is given an important assignment as highest non-radiant commander. At this point there are a thousand things Brandon can do to bring Adolin to a new place from where he started. We ALL understand how character arcs work and we all want him to have one. You acknowledge that those in the opposite camp from you don't want him to be static, but then you go on to insist that the only way for Adolin to be dynamic is to bind a spren. If you really gave an honest effort to imagine a cool story of growth and change for Adolin, without surgebinding, I bet you could do it. Seriously, take 5 minutes and try it. Dude is INVESTIGATING A MURDER HE COMMITTED. There are a lot of cool growth opportunities for him without uttering a single ideal or oath.

Interesting! I misspoke earlier by the way. I don't think the Ardentia use the word Odium. I think they just say it's evil or associate precognition with Voidbringers. I think Taravangian is very much in line with Cultivation's forward-focus while Dalinar is learning primarily from the past. Back to Renarin though, this could cause serious conflict between him and Dalinar. And it might mean he was staring after Adolin not only because he could see the lie, but because he could see the effects that lie might have on Adolin. I also imagine Rosharan Precognition to be like in Dune, where you see all the potential paths an action can have and their relative probability to each other. Like "If I punch that dude, most of the potential paths of the future include him punching back, a few lead to him just storming off, and a tiny sliver of a chance that he offers me a pie in return". I don't like the idea of the future being set in stone as one linear path. This also fits best with Renarin's episode first time in the oathgate, as well as Taravangian's general attitude towards the future.

Precognition being of Odium is Vorinist garbage in my opinion. Honor said in the last WoK vision that he cannot see completely into the future, that is Cultivation's specialty (I'm not in a position to quote). I think that the double eye of the KR is set up with the top half favoring Honor and the bottom half favoring cultivation. I've read and agree with the theory that spren are on a spectrum of honor-cultivation, most sharing qualities of each. I think along with this, honor focuses more on the past and cultivation more on the future. So where bondsmiths are the top pupil in the double eye and truthwatchers are the bottom pupil, they focus primarily on the past and future respectively. I think the visions of each order are synergistic byproducts of their relative surges. What do you all think? Am I nuts?

Or maybe...just maybe it was Tom Riddle's memory...

See, but nobody is wishing him to be static. I want him to grow, I just don't think magic is necessarily the only way for a character to be dynamic and grow. In fact, in Adolin's case, I think him coping with the challenge of being surrounded by KR and not being one will be a fascinating to read about. One of his most important flaws is his adolescent pride. So let's explore how he handles being the least poweful in his family for a bit. Does will he humble himself and let Renarin shine or will he grow jealous? Nobody is saying he's fine or should be left where he is. Just that surgebinding isn't the only alternative to that. As for the in-world probability of a spren choosing him, I won't contend your points. You make a sound argument.

I'm not in the hardcore "Adolin-must-not-surgebind camp", but my reasoning is all story related, and has nothing to do with how the magic works or his compatibility with a given order or spren. I just think he's most interesting as the highly-competent non-surgebinder.I think @yulerule said something along the same lines. I won't complain if this turns out not to be Brandon's plan for Adolin. It's just the character arc I picture him being on.

I promise that I'm aware of the advantages of shards. I have, in fact, read beyond the prologue of Way of Kings, thank you This isn't a theory I'm perfectly confident on, but neither is it wholely without merit. "...doesn't make any sense in any way" is a bit harsh, don't you think? 1.) The dead shards are a symbol of the recreance, reminding the live spren of the siblings the past KR killed by breaking their oaths. 2.) Having the trust and companionship of as many spren as possible is humanity's only chance at survival. If dumping their dead shards--useful as they may be--is the key to winning more spren to the cause, it's a small sacrifice. Maybe all the spren will turn a blind eye to their dead siblings being tortured and used as weapons around them in battle. Maybe it won't impede their ability to trust the humans. I'm just saying it's a real possibility that as the KR expand, they and their allies will have to abandon the dead shards. I know we haven't yet seen a way to release the dead spren from their suffering, but I can't see how that's any indicator that one doesn't exist.

I agree that he won't be a KR, but why must some remain to wield the dead shards? I kind of think the Stormfather or else the collective bound-spren of the refounded KR will insist on doing away with "monstrosities". In fact, I wonder if there's a way to release the dead spren. It seems cruel to keep the shards around.

I confess to being a Shallan-hater and as such I can only picture her as Irritation's champion, were such a shard to exist I don't know why I didn't think of Lift! I was thinking more about who Taravangian would pick than Cultivation but you make a good point about the nightwatcher.

Mark Hamill would be PERFECT for Taravangian. He's got that bored-murderer look in his eyes but he could also come across as a bumbling philanthropist when convenient.

Storms no. Samuel L Jackson only ever plays one role: that of Samuel L Jackson. What about Gary Oldman? Or Ken Watanabe? I just thought of a some improvements on my earlier suggestions: Navani- Gina Torres Sadeas- David Costabile

I read somewhere on here a theory that Dalinar asked to be like/replace Gavilar. I like that theory.

Ok, I've been wondering this since reading WoR and I'm sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere. I imagine it has. But would Stormfather be opposed to Dalinar using the honorblade Kaladin won off Szeth? I mean it's not a dead spren and in no way violates his oaths...

Agreed! I apologize in advance to those who disagree with me on this point, but I will be so crestfallen the moment I read Shallan's name at the top of the chapter heading. She's by far my least favorite POV. But since her first chapter is probably looming in tomorrow's release, I'll just hope she's teaching Renarin to lightweave, rather than navel-gazing and trying to be witty. Man I wish we could replace her POV with Jasnah's or Eshonai's.

May I refer you to Orlando Bloom's Legolas in The Hobbit BoFA? Kidding! Totally kidding. Please don't explain why that's a bad idea. I just wasn't taking this whole casting thing very seriously. I promise I have no intention of submitting my casting ideas to any studio. You are, of course, right about getting the age right IRL.

I don't mean we'll go the whole book without a Highstorm. I mean they'll come less often or there will be a particularly long period without one (maybe 3-4 weeks) I think story-wise it will be a big way to build tension and then relief. I get really stressed when the characters are low on stormlight which tells me it's an effective device. As Stormlight becomes more of a commodity, conservation and harvesting techniques will be interesting economic shifts. But I agree that it can't go very long before we as readers are sick of reading SA without surgebinding. Then it would just be...the Archive.

Where will Shallan's late WoR story arc go regarding her studies of great shells? I don't think it's served its story purposes yet. This isn't a particularly bold theory, but I see a Shallan-Sebarial team up happening where they go to the shattered plains and establish a sustainable gemheart harvesting program. This because I think the stormlight famine will last a long time. I can't fathom how, but I think either Dalinar's bond or the Everstorm is somehow interfering with the Highstorm frequency. There hasn't been any sign of panic yet, but it seems like there's groundwork being laid for a stormlight drought.

Kaladin- Dylan O'brien/Liam Hemsworth/Diego Luna Szeth- Dane DeHaan Stormfather- James Earl Jones as stated above, but I think you never attempt to show the face as wide as the skies. Any attempt will look SOOO CHEESEY. I've tried picturing it and it just doesn't work. Voice only. Nale- Idris Elba. You guys naled it. Taln- The Rock (not a joke. Hate all you want) Sigz- Djimon Hounsou Amaram- Adrian Pasdar/George Clooney Adolin- Ryan Gosling (luckily he looks younger than he is) Dalinar- Hugh Jackman/Mark Ruffalo (but his voice would ruin it) Shallan- Emma Stone Navani- Stockard Channing Lift- zendaya Jasnah- Zoe Saldana Rock- Chris Pratt Wyndle voice- Burn Gorman Renarin- Rami Malek Sadeas- Kevin McNally/Bradley Whitford Teft- Russell Crowe Wit- Cillian Murphy/ Paul Bettany

Too bad it's plagued at the moment :/

You say missed opportunity, I say sacrificed opportunity. An enduring theme in SA is nobody believing Dalinar's warnings. His conversation with Navani confirms that the other monarchies in Roshar are still doubting his warnings. I think only the Parshmen that are left out in the everstorm, as we saw in Edgedancer, will be transformed, and they'll be taken away by the storm before anyone witnesses the transformation. This will leave the monarchs room to doubt Dalinar further, as those who heeded his warning just lost all their Parshmen. Early Voidbringer raids, even in metropolitan centers like Kholinar, would hurt Odium more than they help, as the monarchies of Roshar would unite immediately in their wake and the KR will be fleshed out before Odium can amass and train a full army. In terms of story, this would just make Dalinar's job too easy. It will be better (harder and more heroic) if Dalinar has to scramble to get cooperation when a huge voidbringer army is knocking on Uruthiru's door (or perhaps another city. I'm agnostic on where they attack).