Forerunner

31 minutes ago, StrikerEZ said:

@Draginon Hey, welcome to the Shard! Have an upvote and a free spiked delicious cookie!

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Have you read the sequel to The Way of Kings? Have you read any of Brandon's other books? Do you know about the Cosmere?

If you've only read WoK, then I'd suggest reading some of Brandon's other books before continuing on to Words of Radiance, because there are lots of Cosmere hints in it. If you didn't know, all of Brandon's fantasy books are all set in the same universe on different planets. I'd recommend reading Mistborn first because that one is really good. It's split into two sets of three books, the first trilogy being set during a more traditional fantasy era, while the second three (and there's a fourth coming out next year) are set in an industrial revolution era. That's all in the same world as well.

After Mistborn, I'd suggest reading Elantris and Warbreaker. Both have some minor hints in the Stormlight Archive, so it's always fun to see those when you read through the Stormlight books. 

If you've already finished WoR, I'd recommend reading the rest of the Cosmere books, then go back and reread the Stormlight Archive so you can catch all the little hints.

Anyway, welcome again, and have fun!

Repeat what he said....

Also, welcome! If you need help navigating, ask anyone but me! 

7 minutes ago, The One Who Connects said:

Honor was alive when the Oathpact happened.

Honor lived to see the Recreance.

Edit: also this

Highstorms, and Stormlight in Gemstones predate Honor's arrival.

 

Thank you. I believe I limited my search too much when I was going through Theoryland for WoB on this matter. Honor kicked back too many results.

@Calderis and @The One Who Connects - Would you agree or argue that the abandonment of the Oathpact weakened Honor? Where do you stand on the theory of the Heralds bonding directly to Honor similar to the Nahel Bond the Knights Radiant have with spren?

I have been wondering how and when exactly Honor was shattered. If someone has a more definitive answer that I've missed, please link it.

My theory postulates that Honor was shattered at the same time the Oath Pact was broken by nine of the Heralds in the Prelude to the Stormlight Archive. A few points of evidence I have for this theory:

• Kalak mentions feelings something "break" inside of him once he decides to give up the Oath Pact. This could be just a creative description/visual by Brandon explaining how the Heralds could not take anymore suffering; however, I think he used the word as a double meaning to mirror another piece of Honor's shard "breaking off" or creating a crack to weaken Honor.
• The remainder of Honor became a Cognitive Shadow known as the Stormfather. There were no mentions of Highstorms or gemstones in the Prelude and it seemed that the Herald and/or Knights Radiant could access Stormlight/Investiture without them.

Now we have a WoB saying that the breaking of the Oath Pact is only tangentially related:

Quote

WETLANDER

Was Odium able to Splinter Honor because the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Good question. Um, their abandonment of the Oathpact is related... but mostly tangentially. If I was pinned down on that, I would say no.

WETLANDER

Is there any of the Oathpact still functioning because of Taln's continued participation?

BRANDON SANDERSON

Yes, indeed.

Assuming that Honor bonded with the Heralds in the same manner as spren and KR, the Heralds weakened Honor by giving up the Oath Pact. This made Honor easier to shatter by Odium, but did not directly cause it. 

Side NOTE: If this is proven false, I also wonder if the inverse is the case. The Oath Pact was broken because Odium was in the process/had already broken Honor and the Heralds bond to it and their own honor was weakened.

1 hour ago, Yitzi2 said:

Rayse really doesn't want to take up any other Shards, and if someone else were to take up something alongside Odium (after Rayse is killed), it'd likely be Honor.  (Kaladin might very well have the necessary attunement to both Honor and Odium...but that would be the end of book 10, not book 5.  More likely, Rayse won't die until the end of Mistborn age 4.)

Someone else pointed this out in another thread, but I'm having trouble remembering where. So, I'll just paraphrase.

Perhaps Kaladin could take up both Honor and Odium, but it seems more likely for (Spoilers for end of WoR)

That's the theory I'm most inclined to believe.

24 minutes ago, Calderis said:

We already have evidence from Mistborn that this is not a set timeframe. At least one of the original Vessels was completely controlled by the Shards intent by the beginning (if not a couple thousand years before) that story. We also know that Rayse is still a big part of Odium as we know it. 

The timeframe for the Vessel being subsumed within the intent seems to be a combination of both the way that Shard and their personalities mesh, and the willpower (I'm guessing realmatically I should probably say Determination) of the Shard. 

I must have missed that. With Sanderson's works I was half-expecting an equation of sorts. Like:

SAP =  LoT * [ (SI / VW) + PCSV ]

Where,

SAP - Shard Absorbing Personality

LoT - Length of Time

SI - Shard Intent

VW - Vessel Willpower

PC - Percent Compatibility between Shard and Vessel

---

Thanks for clarifying.

On 7/15/2017 at 0:21 PM, The One Who Connects said:

@Melriken Here. Have the timeline I attempted to reconstruct.

And this one.

Ok, this one needs some explaining. There is a Cosmere Standard for planetary weight and gravity, so it stands to reason that a Worldhopping community like SIlverlight would need a standard "year." Unless Silverlight somehow orbits a planet while in the CR, they need to mark the passage of time in their own way.

My biggest assumption is that they used the Rosharan year. We know the most details about the Rosharan timeline, so they are at the root of any timeline reconstruction, so I used theirs. Disclaimer: I know that the standard year should probably be the Yolish one, but nobody save Hoid and Frost should really know that. (meaning that Khriss can't use it. We can use Earth years, and it might be, but..)

One last thing, regarding the timeline on Scadrial, they used pre-Ascension calendars during the Lord Ruler's reign. Their adjusted "year" is no different than their current one in the eyes of the people. This combined with the fact that I can't justify the math for the 1K/1,024 discrepancy relative to the altered orbit makes Scadrial annoying(and not in the timelines).

The orange text is the basis of all of our problems, and the biggest loophole Brandon has used in a while. His WoBs are not series specific when talking about timeline. Odds are it's an Earth year, but we won't know for sure what his "Cosmere Standard" year is until he tells us.

Honestly, we'll need an official WoB or cannon timeline to determine the events order and it sounds like that won't come for several years (SA needs to wrap up the first 5 books IMO and possibly be past the next Mistborn trilogy).

What I am more curious about is how long it takes before the shards intent consumes the personality of the vessel/holder. That could affect how everything plays out with Rayse/Odium and Cultivation. If I recall correctly, Ati and Leras seemed to hold out for thousands of years; however, Sazed is only 300 years in during the Wax/Wayne series and he is struggling to do more than "slightly" influence his will. Maybe the effect increases exponentially since he holds two shards now?

11 hours ago, Lord Maelstrom said:

That could be scary. i just pictured a Cultivation+Odium dual shard. What would that be? Something to the extent of Inflaming conflict and hate among others?

Perhaps Cultivation + Odium would be War or Torment?

1 minute ago, Lord Maelstrom said:

Unless you have a situation similar to the Preservation/Ruin one. Honor filled Preservation's shoes in making the prison. and Odium is the prisoner. The difference is that where with R&P, it was only a matter of time before Ruin went free, in this case Cultivation can make it much more permanent by personally keeping the door locked.

So now we have the Unmade coming in, and somehow their job is to find a way to counter Cultivation and free Odium.

I was beginning to type something something similar about the parallel to Ruin & Preservation and the Unmade when I saw your reply...

Honor may have created the Oathpact/binding with the full intent of Cultivation being a referee of sorts. Tanavast had every intention of 'fighting' cleanly but wasn't stupid. I'm sure he expected Odium to do something underhanded and needed Cultivation to ensure the 'honor' of their deal was upheld. That's why Cultivation is the jailer (slammer), keeping Odium trapped now. She could have a oath/bind with Honor in that aspect. So long as she is able to Cultivate (Odium's anger, the land after desolations, etc.)

6 minutes ago, King Cole said:

Also, why couldn't a shardbearer leave the system? I mean their plate would run out of stormlight but I'm sure they could still leave.

Sorry, I used the wrong term. I meant a Shard Holder (like Rayse), not Shardbearer. Thanks for pointing it out.

And I'm thinking that asteroid belt, in the Arcanum Unbounded drawing of the Rosharan system, ties into binding the Shard Holder to the system. It can't be just there for aesthetics.

This is my first time posting a theory, so please be merciful! 

Feel free to poke holes in it or tear it apart. I'm always up for a lively discussion/debate.

I trust you will find this post satisfactory, and remain yours faithfully,

Forerunner

Hey @Tesh Kholin

I love WoK also, but Vin and Kelsier capture me in a way that none of the other characters have besides Dalinar. Currently, he's my favorite of all the Cosmere. Strange, I know.

Who's your favorite character?

Thanks for the cookie! *munches*

Ahem...

To answer your questions, my favorite book in the Cosmere is "Mistborn: The Final Empire". While others have provided equal entertainment and emotion, it's hard to beat the first one I read from the Cosmere - and who can resist a great heist story. Also, yes, I know what the cosmere is. Once I'm a bit more settled with the rules and etiquette of the forums, I will be diving into discussions regarding the various theories (my own and others).

What is your favorite book @StrikerEZ ?

Hi Everyone!

I'm new to the 17th Shard; however, I'm not new to Mr. Sanderson's works! I've been reading his wonderful stories for the last 3+ years. I've also had the pleasure of attending 3 of his signings for various book releases. I look forward to discussing theories about the future of his stories and debating the mechanics of his impressive magic systems.

Outside of being a fan, I enjoy reading (no brainer), writing, sports, video games, music, and spending time with my wife and son - not in that order. Some other authors that I like are Dan Wells, Patrick Rothfuss, Ernest Cline, Marcus Sakey, and George R.R. Martin (to name only a few).

I am an unpublished writer in my spare time and consume more episodes Writing Excuses than is necessary (long commute to work everyday).

I trust you will find this introduction satisfactory, and remain yours faithfully,

Forerunner