DustBringer94

So recently i have been wondering if having enough or running out of stormlight was an issue post Recreance. during the Desolations it didn't seem to me like there was any mention either way and i just am wondering if maybe they just used bigger gems or if the level of oaths made them more connected to the spiritual realm and if they were possibly drawing investiture straight from there. maybe that's why their shardplate used to glow. I just wanted to get a discussion up, I'm interested to hear everyone's opinion

On 8/23/2017 at 11:25 PM, Calderis said:

The main thing that I still think needs to be considered is that the Nahel bond is consensual. 

The Radiants all broke their oaths together at a preset time. They planned the Recreance. This means that up to that point, whatever they had planned and acted on, the Spren agreed with. 

The main reason that I believe that the Radiants believed that Nale is correct, that the Radiants contribute to the cycle of desolations, us that the actions taken up to that point didn't inherently break the bond. So the Radiants believed that this choice was for the best and the Spren agreed. 

The Recreance wasn't a betrayal, no matter what the Spren that remained in the Cognitive Realm believe. The Spren were complicit and believed their deaths were necessary. Nothing else explains the ability to coordinate the Recreance. 

this makes so much sense its crazy! the bond is an agreement. and with the spren always being present with the KR there is no way that the Recreance could have been planned "behind their backs" so to speak

I do enjoy this theory because if the Bondsmiths destroyed Honor then it would explain Mr.T's quote from the diagram that stated something along the lines of "hold onto the secret that destroyed the KR, it might be needed again"  whatever it was that caused the Recreance i believe that it was an internal affair. I dont really think breaking the oaths would have "killed" Honor, but perhaps weakened him enough that Odium could then win. and with Honor knowing this he created the visions in his last moments before the showdown. but this is just my own speculation. Im ecstatic to find out what really happened!

On 6/26/2017 at 7:55 PM, Shadows4Silence said:

@DustBringer94 Kaladin was out of Stormlight when he did the last clap on the Shardblade... And you don't need Stormlight to summon a Shardblade from a living spren (right?), so I don't think that that would be the reason...

I don't like dashing theories like that man, but I noticed that my third read through, but hope that helps...

Your humble servant...

Shadows4Silence

i was a little unclear in my meaning. with Syl being made of pure investiture and kaladin being bonded with her i feel that was were the "excess investiture" came from. renerin has never consumed stormlight (that we know of) but we know that being bonded with his spren he cannot hold a "dead shardblade" withouth hearing screams. but what im still not understanding is why is it that when kaladin touches one or renerin does theres no mention of it speaking to them? all we know is that they hear screaming.. whats different about the scene with the last clap? i feel like it stands out for a reason.. but i digress im kinda making shots in the dark here. i just wanted to share my thoughts to further the coversation, get some different opinions

On 2/24/2017 at 6:14 PM, Blightsong said:

This Epigraph heavily implies that this Bondsmith created Parshmen out of Listeners, that the method used is specific to Bondsmiths, and that it relates to "the very nature of the Herald and their divine duties" which I strongly suspect is referencing the Spiritual Realm.

well in the prologue Gavalar says to Eshonni “The parshmen were like you once. We stopped their ability  [to enter the?]  transformation somehow by capturing a spren. A very ancient, very important spren.” He looked to her, his eyes alight. “I’ve seen how I can reverse it.  A new storm that will bring the Heralds out of hiding. A new war.” to me it would seem that he is referring to what the Bondsmiths did.

" Malchin was stymied, for though he was inferior to none in the arts of war, he was not suitable for the Lightweavers; he wished for his oaths to be elementary and straightforward, and yet their spren were liberal, as to our comprehension, in definitions pertaining to this matter; the process included speaking truths as an approach to a threshold of self-awareness that Malchin could never attain. "

-Words of Radiance, chapter 12, page 12

does this mean that he bonded with a spren that he was incompatible with? it leads me to believe that he wasn't very "artsy" and was more straightforward and liked combat more that a typical Lightweaver

i do think there was some sort of perceived betrayal by either honor or the spren that lead to them abandoning their bonds. but who's to say that it wasn't odium that convinced them of this betrayal. if not directly then through the unmade. someone had to have convinced every order that they had been betrayed. and there had to have been some truth to it. being bonded with a spren and having that kind of relationship with them, surely the KR would have asked them for the truth. or maybe they thought that abandoning the bond would protect humanity (pure speculation) i just dont know how a whole organization who have spent hundreds of years protecting people would simply give up the ability to do so just like that.

On 5/16/2017 at 0:33 PM, The Flash said:

So. A while ago I heard this amazing theory that the unmade may be corrupted Dawnshards. Sadly, I found this WoB:

Go ahead and fire away. 

My main question is that because Brandon is so explicit with his wording, what are the unmade? The very name implies that they used to be something different but were "unmade" to their current form. I find myself drifting back to what Tanavast said to Dalinar in on of the visions. he said something in reference to Odium along the lines of "he must choose a champion. hes still bound to some of the same rules" that makes me think that maybe binding Odium is only one part of the Oathpact.

If the Nahel bond is similar to the gem bond in the shardblade then it would stand to reason that Kaladin may have leaked a little more investiture into the blade by simply touching it than when it was normally summoned. therefor resurrecting it a bit more than a normal summon would have. Doesn't kaladin hear syl scream when he touches a blade on a different occasion?

On 5/22/2017 at 1:19 PM, The Sovereign said:

 

Wow, this just added a whole new depth to the story.. I really want to know now!

39 minutes ago, Extesian said:

I think the key here is that, by Rosharan definitions, a spren is investiture that has gained sentience. The Honorblades may be pure Investiture in physical form or may just be a conduit for the direct transfer of Honor's investiture (like metal), I don't think we know but I suspect they're the latter. There's no reason to think that Honorblades are sentient so they're not spren.

And a Sliver incidentally is someone who has taken up a Shard and released the power, so nah the Heralds aren't Slivers. They're Cognitive Shadows, a soul filled with Investiture and stapled to a physical body (to briefly define them).

thank you @Extesian this was really helpful!

i realized this as *facepalm* for a moment i had forgotten he was the leader of the windrunners.

2 minutes ago, Calderis said:

@DustBringer94 it has been confirmed (as far as I'm aware) that the Honorblades were given to the Heralds by Honor. The Spren later copied what honor had made and so granted surgebinding to mean, and the Knights Radiant were formed to create and enforce structure onto them. 

The Honorblades were connected to Honor and allowed the Heralds to draw investiture directly from the shard, so they had no need of Stormlight. Since Honor has been shattered, the direct link is gone, and the means for them to channel investiture with it. This is why Honorblades consume Stormlight so much faster than spren. They were never designed for a limited fuel source. 

that makes a lot of sense. so because they drew their investiture from honor himself would that have made them slivers? and if its just the blades then were the heralds originally just "humans" or were they created to wield the Honorblades and therefor were given their immortality for being a sliver themselves? and while on that topic of their immortality why is it that Odium wasn't able to shatter/destroy them? something Tanavast said to Dalinar during a vision about Odium being bound to some of the same rules as he and that he would need to choose a champion and that this was how they could "get him" so to speak. im just a little confused here on why Odium couldn't or wouldn't destroy them

On 5/21/2017 at 11:44 PM, Calderis said:

She has to be referring to Szeth's blade. 

The Shin had all of the Honorblades except Taln's until Nale reclaimed his.

So the Honorblades at this moment are 7 with the Shin, Jezrien's currently at Urithiru, Nale's Blade, and Taln's (whereabouts unknown)

i wasn't aware that Jezrien's blade wasn't with the shin. Did I miss something?

and as for the moving to the Stormlight forum thing @CaptainRyan i would do it but im new to the whole forum thing in general and have no idea how to do that. I apologize

23 minutes ago, CaptainRyan said:

so @CaptainRyan that would mean that although they lead the KR they didn't actually have a Nahel Bond? i guess what im asking is that a KR gains surgebinding through a spren but a herald gets it from their honorblade? i would think that it would be the other way around. that the original users of surgebinding would have bonded very powerful spren. I find myself wondering if the Honorblades have more to do with the Oathpact and that's why they're different.

 

So recently I've been rereading the first two Stormlight Archive books in anticipation of Oathbringer. I've also been spending a lot of time on here at work reading others discussions about the Cosmere and The Oathpact. i've just been wondering if Honorblades are dead in the same sense that the normal shardblades are?