Gderu

I think that Raboniel's disease might come from another planet.

Raboniel has definitely lived long enough to be Cosmere aware. I think that it's not much of an assumption to think that she knows there are other planets.

In the Purelake, we have seen what off world diseases can do on Roshar, and the was only the common cold. I think that Raboniel saw something like this, and thought that a stronger disease might be able to kill all humans. Because of that, she went to another planet and brought back something worse than the common cold. 

She assumed that it would wipe the humans out because they would be susceptible to it since they would not have it on the planet. She assumed it would not hurt the singers because of their different biology, but she forgot to factor in the fact that they have been living with the humans for thousands of years up to that point. The two species have probably intermixed quite a bit up to this point. The Horneaters and Herdazians are proof of this. I suggest that that is why some singers were killed. At the same time, this intermixing would have made humans less susceptible to the disease, and so not all of them would have died.

This also makes narrative sense - we have seen other planets becoming a more important part of the books. This is exactly the right fit in that other books aren't necessary to understand this, but it does lead to questions about them, and therefore leads new readers to read them. 

The only other way the disease could have been made seems to be with fabrials, but I have no idea how that would be a possible feat with fabrials. My idea seems like the simpler solution.

I think that her plan is purely related to fabrials mechanics. I have posted a theory in the past that claims that chromium was used in the Radiant dampener. I think that the same method is used in the Urithiru fabrial, except for the fact that there is a different target there. In the Radiant dampener, the target is Connection with Honor. In the Urithiru fabrial, the target is Connection with Odium. I think that Raboniel simply means to change the target of the Connection in Urithiru to Honor instead of Odium, and then she'll make Urithiru wake up.

That scene sounds so amazing. Radiants looking around them as Urithiru lights up, cheering and excited, until they notice that they cannot use stormlight.

7 minutes ago, Karger said:

Also good to confirm Venli has cohesion and workform happens with gravitationspren.

What? Since when have we assumed that workform happens with gravitationspren? That seems like a completely random choice to me. Maybe you could say workform is down to earth? lol, I don't see why it would be gravitationspren.

I wonder what the dangerous thing that happened here is. It could be the person contacting Navani, but the distances don't seem to match. Navani received the message when arriving at the Shattered Plains. Hearthstone is much closer to Kholinar than to the Shattered Plains. Unless Fused fly much slower than Radiants, I don't see how the times would match. I think that this is the beginning of the dangerous operation that was hinted at in the book descriptions.

In general, I really enjoyed this chapter. Venli was a very refreshing viewpoint after the long weeks of Kaladin and depression and gloom. Its interesting how much she thinks about autonomy and letting people make their choices. Timbre seems to have influenced her much in the past year. Also, only now do I realize how much sense it makes that the Willshaper would be a parsh/singer/whatever we're calling them. Because the willshapers focus so much on autonomy and free choice, its obvious that they might take issue with the forms, or at least that there will be an interesting point there. Also, I wonder what Venli means by what she says at the end to Shumin. Could it be that all Willshaper spren are going to be bonding singers instead of humans? If so, why have we not heard about there being no Willshapers from the humans so far?

I wonder if Venli might meet the Shadesmar envoy to the Honorspren. That could be the opening to discussions between her and our MCs.

This thread will have full book spoilers.

I'm not sure what happened at the end. Which one survived, which died? I think that the replica survived, but I'm not sure.

I really liked the way the world was built in this one. It felt very vivid and real, despite the alien setting. The plot felt much more complex than I'm used to from Brandon's books, and I like that as well. There was no real correct Holly. They were both broken, and both wrong. In the end, it was implied that the choice to kill the other was a selfish one instead of a moralistic, and so no matter who lived, she was guilty.

The government was definitley in the wrong here. Skyler implied that there was something about the Commons that he wasn't telling her - I'm pretty sure it is that they have the secret code that the government needs to change people's memories. If that is true, he is definitley implicated.

The people who checked out seem like the most likely heroes here, but then again if they had fulfilled their goals, they could very well have turned into a replica of the government using the ability to change people's memories. In the end, both groups were not really working for the common people.

Thoughts?

You know, I was actually just thinking about if Moash still has his tatoo the other day as well. I don't think the new people will be getting the tattoo - they aren't joining bridge four, they're joining the Windrunners.

49 minutes ago, Karger said:

I think I will respond to you all here as your thoughts touch mine.  It is actually quite common rendition of the road back stage of the hero's journey(stridently this is by far the most dangerous stage of the hero's journey).  The pacifist mentor to the hero who can no longer fight is also a recurring character if you knew where to look for him.  Kaladin is currently at the regression stage of his journey.  The consequences of his choices are manifesting and he is not sure if he like the result.  Generally this stage ends with our hero dying or becoming a villain.  If the story ends here we just saw a tragedy.  The death of the hero however leaves room for hope.  If the hero is able to keep going he will journey through the underworld, resurrect, and return with the answer to his questions thus completing the cycle. 

I really doubt Kaladin will die in this book. That leaves two options -either he goes to the "underworld" or becomes a villain. We have some foreshadowing that he might become a villain, namely his reaction to Moash. Then again, he might very well be going to get better. When you say underworld here, you're not taking about the literal underworld. You're talking about a bad, scary place that is different from the usual. This can very well mean Lasting Integrity. This might be more hints that Kaladin is gonna join Shallan and Adolin on the journey to lasting integrity.

I don't think it's an addiction, more of an overreliance on it. I would imagine that Kaladin uses stormlight to keep going and ignore his problems, but it doesn't seem like he is actually addicted to it. It's just that without the stormlight, he doesn't have that urge to always move and be active, and that is causing his depression to become more apparent.

Reading Kal's part was painful. Seeing him in such a bad place after him seeming better in Oathbringer was hard. I really hope he gets better soon.

Navani was interesting, as expected. I like reading her thoughts, she's very different from everyone else in the book in a refreshing way.

So we have confirmation that soulcasters are made with higher spren. This seems at odds with the fact that they were made during the time of the radiants. I'm guessing they were made in a humane way somehow, perhaps with the consent of the spren. Also, the fact that the spren have their eyes closed seems important. Could this be how the Sibling is slumbering? If so, what fabrial is he powering now?

I also wonder who it was that Navani was writing to. Could it be one of the secret societies? They seem to have had contact with honorspren before to disdain them so. Perhaps a spren? But then, Navani said the spren are alright with fabrials. I really don't know. I've seen someone else suggest Aimians, that is an interesting possibility. 

Shallan was also hard to read, although it was better than Kaladin. She seems worse but also better than she was at the end of Oathbringer. I'm surprised she hadn't told Adolin about the Ghostbloods and her involvement with them yet. The cosmere tidbits were a nice touch, could our characters become cosmere aware in this book? We are supposed to learn more about the Sons of Honor and the Ghostbloods this time...

I wonder what it is that Shallan has been doing for the Ghostbloods. Also, how far has she gotten in her mission to capture Sja Anat? That seems relativley large, I don't think that will be off screen. She also seems to be set on breaking relations with the Ghostbloods, but I don't think she'll succeed, not yet anyways.

She feels so fragile in this PoV. Constantly jumping between personas, unsure about herself. What could it be that she's done to make her so worried that people will hate her? She says that Shallan is really the fakest of the personas, probably because that is the face she shows the world, the face Adolin thinks is the "real" her. Who is she really? 

10 hours ago, Commander Azure said:

I think that Lirin is, not necessarily in this book, but at some point, become a Radiant with access to Regrowth, and accept that the concept of war isn't evil. No evidence or anything, but I think that this would be really cool if it happened.

I actually really disagree. I think that he offers a very refreshing viewpoint, one which I mostly agree with. War is evil, and the world would be better off if no one engaged in it.

Of course, that's idealistic. We need war to defend ourselves and our rights, but that does not mean that we should just accept war as a necessity of life. It is important to always remember that war is bad, to remember that we should be working against it. With Jasnah's extremist opinions about the war, that the only solution is to defeat the singers before they can destroy human society, the humans are in dire need of a voice encouraging peace. I think Lirin can be that voice.

9 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Those quadrants have pairs with little connection. The relationship between gold and electru is loose. As is frankly, tin and pewter. Taking steel and iron is cherry-picking.

I agree that others are not as similar as steel and iron, but imo the theory makes the relationship between duralumin and aluminum much simpler, and it also makes it more general. Otherwise, how would it interact in a fabrial? It can't just be "erases metals", otherwise aluminum would not work for fabrials. 

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You recognize that an allomancer has snapped by him or her burning metals. This happened while they were beaten up. So the metal must hae been ingested before the allomantic ability arose.

Why not just beat them up, then give them metals to check if they are now allomancers?

2 hours ago, Knight of Iron said:

Instantly when I saw what the new fabrial could do I thought "chromium" and instantly checked these forums to see if anyone had the same idea. And here you are.

Glad to see someone else had the same thoughts, although it took us around 20 minutes of discussion to get there.

2 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Because it works the same way as chromium works and duraluminium is paired with nicrosil.

Chromium is just aluminum but external, but there also has to be some relationship between aluminum and duralumin - they are both in the same quartet, and are both internal. The only difference is that one pulls while the other pushes. Because of that, it would make sense of they were to affect the same thing, or at least two similar things (like steel and iron).

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Well, how does a Mistborn snap under those assumptions?

What do you mean? I don't understand why mistborn snapping would be affected by the assumptions.

14 minutes ago, Karger said:

He really doesn't know yet but it does have to get rid of them.  Severing connection will in of itself not work.  Also Syl and Kaladin were still connected.  Their bond does not appear to have been damaged or Syl would have suffered.

It doesn't completley sever the connection, but it does weaken it. I would imagine the strength of the weakening would be a factor of how much stormlight is in the gem. Fabrials aren't exactly like allomancy, they only follow the general same principles. For example, bronze does not search for allomancy, but it can look for people as well (like in the Rysn interlude).

1 hour ago, Gilphon said:

I really think that resemblance to chromium is purely superficial. Like chromium would remove the Stormlight from within Kaladin and the Voidlight from within the Fused, and only affects things directly in contact with it. The Fabrial surpassed the connection between Syl and Kaladin, didn't affect the Fused at all, and covering a wide area. Like there's basically nothing in common with chromium aside from the general anti-magic thing.

And also there's no real reason to believe that they're discovered chromium in Roshar. That stuff isn't exactly easy to get ahold of without modern refining techniques. 

Sorry for the double post btw

I think that the fabrial was made specifically to target radiants. If you notice, other fabrials can target specific people/things (like Navani's emotion detecting fabrial). There's no reason to think you couldn't target a spren bond as well.

The part about chromium is exactly why I think this theory is even more likely. Odium is sure to know things the radiants do not, and will therefore be able to make fabrials they don't know. This is exactly a stepping stone to better knowledge of fabrials.

1 hour ago, Karger said:

Technically no but this subject has been the source of a lot of consternation on Brandon's side so we don't have a canonical answer yet as to what happens to other metals.

 

The other WoB quoted below seems to imply that aluminium does affect Connection like me and my friend thought, and that they have the metals disappear in order to not give metal poisoning to everyone that burns it. So this basically means that everything works like I thought, other than the metal poisoning which doesn't have to do with my theory. So it's still possible!

16 minutes ago, Karger said:

Well this really belongs in the other sub thread but that aside.

Oh whoops, where should it go? I posted it here and not in general cosmere because of spoilers for RoW.

16 minutes ago, Karger said:

What about metal poisoning?  Your metals are not just unusable they must vanish somehow. 

Are we sure that mistborn don't actually get metal poisoning after burning aluminum? We have only seen that one time in which Vin burned Aluminum.

Me and a friend were taking yesterday about the new fabrial that uses voidlight, and we came to the conclusion that it's metal might be chromium. 

If you noticed, in mistborn duralumin and aluminum don't seem to be exactly paired together - they seem to do things which are a bit different. Me and my friend came to the conclusion that maybe they both manipulate your Connection to Preservation. Duralumin increases it, while aluminum decreases it. We know that lerasium makes you Connected to Preservation, and that is what gives mistborn their powers.

Now, this makes sense for duralumin, and it makes sense that you cannot use allomancy while burning aluminum, but why then does aluminum permanently remove the metal reserves inside of you? I theorise that this is because it makes you not a Mistborn for a moment, and that any metal that you swallow before becoming a Mistborn cannot be used. In other words, if Elend were to swallow pewter before swallowing the lerasium bead, he would not have been able to burn that pewter. A point in this theory's favour is that sometimes, feruchemical powers and allomantic powers align, and affect roughly the same thing. Duralumin's feruchemical power is Connection.

So now, back to fabrials. What the fabrial seems to do is weaken the Connection between a radiant and his spren. This is why Syl could not manifest as a Blade, and why she remarked about feeling faded. Notice anything? This seems awfully similar to the effects of chromium, which is like aluminum but external, allowing a person to wipe someone else's metal reserves.

From the epigraphs, we can assume that all allomantic metals affect fabrials in roughly the same way. This is why I think that the voidlight fabrial was connected to chromium. Now, how could the voidbringers specify radiants and their spren as the targets? I don't know. I assume it has to do with the spren trapped inside the gemstone.

Now, what is the likely result of this? I think  discovering that fabrials can also be affected by chromium will help Navani understand what chromium does, and that should open the door to understanding the entire quartet of aluminum, duralumin, chromium, and nicrosil, as well as help them understand Connection, and beginning their journey to cosmere awareness.

Thoughts?

4 hours ago, Nathrangking said:

A confrontation between Shallan and Mraize?

I don't think we'll see that quite yet. We just had a tense scene, so we will probably either get a relativley quiet scene next that's unrelated to the happenstance (a Venli scene here could maybe work), or that we will get a scene with the Fourth Bridge taking off and then the chapter after that will be Venli.

6 minutes ago, Michael Portz said:

Moash, the Anti Dalinar? I.e.

vs

Hmmm....

 

I think that it's more a thing of having accepted Odium vs not. Moash has accepted Odium, and has therefore let Odium take his pain. Dalinar has not, which is why he says that.

56 minutes ago, Goatbringer said:

- Hoid will ask a boon of the Nightwatcher

I don't think that's very likely. Hoid has said that he and Cultivation don't get along, and going to the Nightwatcher would put him too much in her center of power.

-Navani becomes a willshaper, she does not bond the Sibling

-The body focuses of the essences  are related to fabrials somehow. Specifically, I think that the veins that are found around Urithiru and Kholinar are somehow connected to the blood (which is the body focus of garnets). I think that maybe all fabrials fit into one of the body focuses. A major point that makes me think that is Exhalation and Inhalation, which seem like they are not very related to the body, while at the same time being perfect opposites. This could be the types of fabrials that conjoin.

-fabrials that use surges require the consent of the spren (possibly of a higher spren)

-the unmade are a each a part of a herald, somehow split from the original herald and reversed from the actual herald. Now there will be another one because Taln broke. (I know this doesn't fit with the nine theme, but it just seems to fit too well with the hints we have about them for it to not be true).

5 minutes ago, Eternal Khol said:

What i dont get is if the steps were made for the Heralds, why are they ten strides tall?

or is the “ten strides” not literal and is supposed to be more metaphorical? 
The number ten has relevance on Roshar so maybe they were just trying to fit that in there? Or show that it was related to the heralds or radiants or something?

I think that it's a stride for a cremling.

To the OP: this is an amazing theory, you can count me as a believer.

I think this is quite different. When an Aes Sedai shields someone, she puts a block between that person and the True Source. What we see here seems more like stretching the difference between physical and cognitive realm.

7 minutes ago, Kesamijr said:

Or what if Restares is her 4th personality??

Nah but seriously, I kind of felt like Brands was hanging a lampshade on Ishnah, cuz he specifically pointed out how Shallan (or whoever of the Three was in control at that point) was questioning Gaz and Red, who had been with her since the beginning but not Ishnah. Ishnah seems like she makes the most sense too as a Ghostblood plant cuz everything Shallan knows about her comes from the Ghostbloods, but twice we see Shallan just completely trust Ishnah without question, I think a lampshade for sure.

I definitley agree. I read a pretty convincing theory over on Reddit that said that it was actually Shallan who did it. Notice that events happened in this order:

-Shallan grabs Ialai to lightweave her a disguise

-she feels a surge of hatred towards Ialai

-she lets go of Ialai, and reaches into her satchel, and becomes Radiant

-Radiant grabs Ialai again, and brings her to the soldiers

That seems very suspicious to me. There is a problem with the fact that she turned into Radiant right before grabbing Ialai, but it seems obvious to me that Shallan at least attempted to assasinate Ialai. The fact that Ialai dies a short time later heavily implies that she succeeded.

This forum likely has more people who do read the chapters than those who don't. Maybe ask in Reddit for a more accurate representation.