Aliroz-The-Confused

Conviction - Unwillingness to compromise on principles/values/morality, sometimes close-minded, strong sense of right and wrong (one which doesn't necessarily make sense), cares deeply even though it causes pain, wanting to do what is right, no breaking rules. Endurance/protection magic (make the walls as firm as our resolve). Color: White. Misoneism/Continuity - "the world is like a wonderful statue - Nothing anyone can possibly do can improve it, but there are a million ways to damage it. The things that exist are irreplaceable, so innovation and change are to be abhorred." Very much like preservation, except with less respect for individual agency. Darkness based magic (because light makes things fade, and light moves, and Darkness was first). Color: Black. Kinship - Devotion to family, respect/love of ancestors, sense of community. Just as Honor still applies in your dealings with the dishonorable, Kinship would mean trying to be kind, empathetic, or finding a way to relate to those who are different (who you have no relation to), or, in other words, "adopting" them into the group of people you care about (your "kin), or adding their history to the ones you know ("Adopting" their ancestors). In the one sense, being kind and empathetic- in the other sense, assimilating others and removing their independence (defining them by your people's ways). Fire-based magic (the hearth of home, and hospitality). Color: Warm yellowish red/orange.

As a native of a planet 1AU from its star, with an approximately 24-hour day and an approximately 365-day year, with 1g of gravity, I have to root for the people of my sister-planet, especially if that planet has giraffes. Also, I read Mistborn first, and it's always been first in my heart. Also, Leras is, as the slang goes, mah boi, and the world he died to save means a lot to me. I imagine that the people of Scadrial are the aggressors/Invaders/Original-Belligerents, though. I can hardly imagine Roshar being successfully united for any significant amount of time EXCEPT in the face of an existential threat, so I think they'd be more likely to be the reactive party than the proactive. I presume that the war is over metals, because metals are shiny and neat, and it's only fair after the King's Wit stole the incredibly rare and shiny Lerasium.

Well, that obliterates the foundations on which this is premised. However, incorrect premises don't necessarily mean incorrect conclusions any more than correct premises mean correct conclusions. Additionally, even if not all shards have direct counterparts, Cultivation could still be one of the ones which does have a counterpart. Furthermore, from a Doylist point of view, I suspect that some of the shards (especially Odium and Ruin) are at least in part based off of (Latter-day Saint ideas/doctrine on) Satan. Ati as the distorter of truth seeking to defile and desecrate creation, Rayse as the hateful would-be usurper desiring glory and rule which is not his to claim, and Captivation as described in 2nd Nephi 2:27 Wherefore, men are free according to the flesh; and all things are given them which are expedient unto man. And they are free to choose liberty and eternal life, through the great Mediator of all men, or to choose captivity and death, according to the captivity and power of the devil; for he seeketh that all men might be miserable like unto himself. Additionally, the Agriculture and Society associated with Cultivation also are (perhaps not always, but often) based in an (sometimes exploitative) stratified social structure. The worst of these structures can be deeply based in captivation (See: Mesopotamia's king-accounts writing victories not in terms of land gained but in terms of prisoners taken, Bread and Circuses in Ancient Rome distracting people from their oppression, et cetera), in a way that suggests that Cultivation and Captivation, though opposed, are perhaps inextricably linked. I don't know what the resolution of Cultivation and Captivation into a singular entity would be, Cultivation and Captivation's equivalent of Harmony. I suppose it could, perhaps, be Education, in the sense of being-forced-to-take-tests and improvement-through-learning.

Assumption/(Premise-Treated-As-Axiom) 1: The 16 Shards are/were comprised of 8 sets of opposing pairs. Assumption/(Premise-Treated-As-Axiom) 2: The 16 Shards are/were comprised of 8 sets of counterpart pairs. Assumption/(Premise-Treated-As-Axiom) 3: Counterpart pairs and opposing pairs are (but might not necessarily have to be) the same pairs, as in the metaphorical two sides of a coin, or how light and darkness define one another, or how sound and silence define one another. Assumption/(Premise-Treated-As-Example-Of-Above) 1: Honor's counterpart is Odium. Assumption(Premise-Treated-As-Example-Of-Above) 2: Devotion's counterpart is Domination. Assumption(Premise-Treated-As-Example-Of-Above) 3: The counterpart of dear Preservation was that accursed Ruin. Assumption/(Premise-From-Above-Axiom-And-Examples) 1: Cultivation must have, or must have had, a counterpart. Assumption/(Premise-From-Above-Axiom-And-Examples) 2: By understanding one half of an opposing/counterpart shard pair, we learn about the other. Assumption/(Premise-From-Above-Axiom-And-Examples) 2: By understanding Cultivation, we can suppose what her counterpart is (or is like), and we know enough of Cultivation to guess. Idea/(Guess) 1: The counterpart of Cultivation is Captivation. The word, "Cultivation" has several meanings and senses, one of which (to cultivate a talent in yourself) is tied with ideals of hard work, endurance, and progression, all by your own choice. However, when one undergoes captivation (in the sense of being entranced by something compelling or enthralling, such as a charming story), one regresses to a passive state, becoming incapable of progression or choice, being subject to outside entities/forces rather than acting/resisting/enduring, often to the detriment of one's ability to get anything done. Another sense of the word, "Cultivation" (to cultivate plants, as in a flower garden or for agriculture) is tied with themes of guiding-but-not-entirely-controlling, nurturing (perhaps through pruning), and experiencing the growth of another. Captivation (in the archaic sense of captivity), is tied with themes of absolute control, confinement, restriction/retraction, and breaking another into that-which-cannot-resist-or-oppose-you. Note that, in this sense, Cultivation and Captivation both are (or can be) exploitative, using the other for greater goals. As counterparts, this makes sense. A third sense of, "Cultivation" (as in refinement or sophistication, especially in a societal context) is etymologically tied to the very roots of the term "Culture", just as "captivation" is etymologically tied to "capture". This makes sense, as cultures which practice slavery have tendencies to procure slaves by capturing those of other cultures, and the enslaving culture often considers itself to be superior, or more cultivated (progressed), than those they exploit. We see these tendencies on Scadrial and Roshar (if things can be ruined and preserved on Roshar, then there is no reason why there should be no cultivation or honor on Scadrial). Note that this sense of Captivation is the act of taking, or capturing, while the first sense is about keeping one bound, and the second sense is what happens to that-which-is-bound. Note that the Parshmen slaves of Roshar are examples of all three of these forms of Captivation, as is the use of Spren in gemstones. Idea/(guess) 2: Odium's planet before Roshar was also Captivation's planet. Devotion and Domination are an example of counterparts on the same planet. The sadly departed Preservation and the despised Ruin are an example of counterparts on the same planet. However, Honor and Cultivation originally shared a planet despite not being counterparts. Perhaps this can be resolved symmetrically by having their respective counterparts share a planet. Idea/(guess) 3: When Odium's worshipers, the humans, came to Roshar, they brought some aspects or practices of/from Captivation with them (See: the captivation of the original inhabitants of Roshar, the Parshmen and Spren).

Hmm. Darn, because Hoid's conversation with Elend felt really raw to me. Much more invested in events than his air of aloof, almost untouchable jadedness in other works would seem to imply. if the Keepers are the Information Department (or a part of it), then the loss of that is still a major blow to Hoid, and would explain why he asks after Tindwyl specifically, and perks up so much when she is confirmed to be alive. As one who deals in information, and, assuming that the Copperminds of the dead keepers were lost, Hoid lost one of his major resources. We know that Hoid had also failed to find the Well of Ascension and the Lerasium at this point. Surely, if he meant to get to Luthadel as fast as possible, he wouldn't take a thousand refuges with him, right? Or, he could just be a really good actor, but it'd be more compelling for Hoid to be legitimately dismayed, and would tie Copperminds as a usage of information storage into the greater Cosmere. I don't know, but I do feel that Hoid seems... different, somehow, before and after the attack on Terris, and I think we should look into that more than we have.

I don't see how that contradicts any of my theory. There's only one Hoid at a time, and Wit doesn't become Hoid until the original Hoid dies. I mean, Wit says that Hoid was "The name of one I should have loved", and The Reply from Words of Radiance asks if Wit is going by the name of his old master again. There was an original Hoid who was not Wit, who must have died sometime, and I think that the Attack on Terris is a logical place for the Master to die. It fits so well with the older members of Kelsier's crew sending the younger ones to live while they themselves stay and die. And, considering that the attack happened because The Final Empire fell, it would explain why Wit-Hoid and Kelsier do not get along as per Word of Brandon.

Hi. Chapter lengths aren't really a problem in my opinion unless you mean for your books to be read out loud, in which case, the voice of the guy who reads the book on tape needs a break I thought Secret History wasn't out yet, how'd you get it?

This seems to be a pretty slow forum, from what I've seen. Where are the rules? Is there a limit to how many threads one can make in a short period of time? What are the unwritten rules of good form and discussion?

Was it ever said that Arsteel and Yesteel were one another's only siblings? Was it ever said which one was elder, and which one was younger? What can we guess about Yesteel from his fallen brother? Having no copy of Warbreaker, and eagerly awaiting Nightblood, I make this thread for all information involving the Steel Siblings.

This is me, Aliroz The Confused, from, um, some other websites. Sometimes I go by Nihhus Rozzy. I first started reading Cosmere when my uncle gave me his copy of Mistborn: The Final Empire, and have been a Sanderson Fan ever since. I hope to be a writer someday, and these books mean a lot to me, giving me hope at a time when I thought that the world would never accept a mormon author after Orson Scott Card and Stephenie Meyer became so unpopular on the internet. Ask me anything, I guess, and I'm sorry if I do anything wrong here, I'm new and nervous, because I've looked up to you guys for a while, I mean, you were the guys who first found Hoid, and who talk to Brandon himself!

Spoilers for original Mistborn trilogy, Elantris, Warbreaker, Stormlight Archive, Word of Brandon. So, we know that there are at least two Hoids/Hoiden/Hoidypodes/Hoidypeople/Hoides, Hoid the Elder, who is not Wit, and Hoid the Younger, who is Wit. So, what if Hoid is an acronym for Head Of Information Department? In Mistborn, Hoid is an informant, one who deals in information. In Warbreaker, Hoid is a storyteller, one who deals in information. In Well of Ascension, Hoid leads the Terris refuges after the loss of their Keepers, thus taking the place of those who dealt in information. In Elantris, a Hoid is a beggar covered in bandages, and accompanied by a younger beggar. In Mistborn: The Final Empire, a Hoid is Kelsier's Informant. This Hoid is implied to be short (he is first seen sitting in a doorway, but then he "climbed to his feet-though that didn't make him much taller"). He is also, in the next sentence, called "the scrawny bald man". This is, in my opinion, Hoid the Elder, and not Wit. Wit is described as "thin" and "tall". Considering how Vasher was only slightly taller than usual at the rescue of Nanrovah's daughter, and that no change of height was mentioned in any of Denth's disguises or his return to his true form at death, and given that lightweaving is essentially hologram-making, it seems doubtful that one can change one's height via illusion or disguise in the Cosmere (though, perhaps with lightweaving, you could make the top part of you invisible and project an image of a short person below that...). This Hoid is assumed by Kelsier to be Skaa, while the Hoid of Well of Ascension passes for Terris. In Warbreaker, Hoid is the white-haired, bearded one recognizable as Wit, but in previous sanderson works he seems to be described differently. Now, we know from Word of Brandon that Wit-Hoid is in every Cosmere book. Assuming he is somewhere in The Final Empire, and that he is the younger beggar in Elantris, this Hoid the Younger can be the Terris-looking leader of the refuges, and can be every Hoid after that. So, I distinguish the short, bald, skaa-looking Hoid from the early Cosmere from the tall, white-haired and bearded, terris-looking Hoid of the later Cosmere. Interestingly, this places the death of the original Head Of Information Department at the attack on Terris by the Inquisitors, the loss of the Keepers (the Information Department, essentially). It seems fitting for Hoid the Elder, informant, to die with the greatest group of information-gatherers, the end of an era. This leaves Wit to take up the mantle and lead the survivors, inheriting the title of his old master, thus, becoming Hoid. Thoughts? (This is my first theory)