CaptainRyan

Sorry if I was not clear but I did not want to choose "Allomancy" (as the poll is asking what power I would choose and the OP clarified it meant for me to utilize) if I would only get a single Allomantic ability. If, on the other hand, choosing "Allomancy" as the power I would get to utilize meant I had access to all Allomantic abilities (i.e. I was a Mistborn) then I would switch my vote from soul casting to Allomancy.

While I understand that the general discussion between Nedyah Drallid and Blightsong is on hold, I would like to point out that Nalan does not, in my opinion, need to hear his victim's pleas in order to be "fair". Fairness could be that he treats all of his victims the same. I, personally, think it is acceptable to describe Nalan's (and Taravangian's) actions as having integrity, honesty and fairness depending on how you define those terms. That is the crux of a lot of this discussion I think: we are not sure exactly how the terms Honor, Cultivation, Hatred, lie, integrity, honesty, fairness etc. are defined in-world and that means, depending on how we, as readers, define them it can lead to very different theories.

It might be that Hoid has learned to hack investiture to fuel his Lightweaving or it might be as you say. If Harmony left Scadrial would Allomancers still be able to burn metals? Would new Allomancers be born? That is quite the thought-provoking question you ask Eki.

Secret History Spoilers ahead Also, is there a WoB about people from Yolen having access to every magic system? Because, as I understand the Cosmere, the magic systems are not simply from the Shards but rather reflect the Shard's interaction with the native environment of the worlds. This implies that Yolen and Adonalsium would create a unique magic system that is not same as any other Shard world.

At the moment, I would probably lean against the idea that Harmony's dual intents of Ruin and Preservation will "merge" into some other Intent but I am, by no means, claiming that is impossible. As for some Vessels easily resisting their Shard's Intents, can you point me to an example? My head-canon is that all of the Vessels were being overwhelmed by the Intents of their Shards - I would love to correct that misconception if it is wrong.

Emotions do not make humans useless - we can agree on that! Intents, however, are not emotions. I hope we can also agree on that too. Honor is not an emotion, Ruin is not an emotion etc. Furthermore, the Shards are magical objects(?) of massive power and their Intents are overriding in all things. Ruin ruins things to the exclusion of all else. Honor is honorable to the exclusion of all else. The Vessels provide a certain mitigating effect at first but, overtime, the Vessel becomes less and less influential. Think of a human that is fanatically devoted to a certain ideal - they literally do not consider other options because, to them, there is only one option. I also agree that the Shards did not exist in the same way they do now when they were a part of Adonalsium. We know Adonalsium could have Shattered into different Shards. On the other hand, I would argue that the Intents bound up in the Shards were a part of Adonalsium; I would find it quite strange if Adonalsium did not have some form of Intent but, somehow, the Shards gained Intents. Lastly, I respectfully disagree that Sazed, without some sort of change in the situation, will be able to resist the inexorable opposite pulls of Ruin and Preservation. I think the following WoB strongly implies that Sazed is, overtime, becoming less and less able to act: Quote (source) I do think that Sazed has options. He could try and acquire another Shard - that would definitely change the way the Intents are influencing him. I also have a theory that Sazed could voluntarily and temporarily give up a bit of one power in order to allow the other power's Intent to be stronger. That would allow him to act towards the stronger Intent. Then, after a while, he could take back up the power, release some of the other power, and allow the other Intent to be stronger for a while. By bouncing back and forth in this way he could, possibly, give himself space to act. While my original post was about Adonalsium being True Neutral and unable to act I did amend it later in this discussion to admit that Adonalsium might have not been True Neutral but, overtime, became heavily weighted in favor of a certain Intent/mix of Intents. Either way, I am not sure Adonalsium was some benevolent Super Shard that was a perfect mix of Mercy/Justice, Love/Hatred, Ruin/Preservation etc. Otherwise, why would the original 16 Vessels have Shattered Adonalsium? We know some of those original 16 Vessels were good people - what could have driven them to Shatter a "perfect" deity? My guess, at the moment, is that Adonalsium either became functionally inert due to balanced Intents affecting the holder over a long period or that some Intent/mix of Intents became dominant. This drove (some) of the original 16 Vessels to decide that *something* had to change. Also, as a side note, it isn't that Sazed can only paint in black or white but it is that he increasingly can only use equal amounts of black and white. The longer he holds Preservation and Ruin the less he is able to push back against the Intents. In the same way, even if you had access to all colors but you had to use set amounts of those colors you would be equally unable to do anything unique.

I am not sure what the rules are on posting after someone else necros but I did vote today so... Soulcasting. I could create whatever I needed, whenever I needed or, if I cannot create it, I could create money/valuable material, sell that and buy what I needed. Not to mention I think it would allow me to visit the Cognitive Realm AND, unless Jasnah's ranged attack is based in Elsecalling, I could soulcast from a distance to defend myself. I wasn't sure if "Allomancy" meant Mistborn or Misting but if it was Mistborn I would probably pick that out of love for the series.

I completely missed the fact that Shallan had a shardblade in my first read through of WoK. After I noticed the (super obvious) clues on my second time through I excitedly informed my roommate of my "discovery". His look of disappointment in me makes me face-palm every time I think of it.

True enough but shardic Intent seems to be a very powerful force and if Adonalsium truly contained all Intents then it is possible Adonalsium reached a state of equilibrium/zen/paralysis. The Shattering might have been an attempt at bringing the powers of creation back to the Cosmere. ^ <| _ | _ |> | _ | _ | | | | <- - - - - - - - - o - - - - - - - - -> | | | | - | - | | - | - | <- y -> This highly realistic ASCII drawing shows exactly how Adonalsium was rendered inert by achieving perfect balance among all possible Intents! edit: Not to be nitpicky but why do you think Dominion refers only to land?

Check out this thread: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/22548-concerning-harmonys-inactiveness/ and look for WeiryWriter's comment that has several WoB's and their sources. Actually, I will just copy the WoB's below with thanks to WeiryWriter for quoting them: Quote (source) Quote (source) Quote (source)

It seems like Preservation would be the direct opposite to both Ruin and Cultivation and that Ruin and Cultivation are also direct opposites of each other. Ruin <- - - - - - - -> Preservation <- - - - - - - -> Cultivation Maybe something like that where Preservation is in the middle resisting both the concept of decay and growth.

Ahh, but Devotion Invested in Dominion! The other option is that Dominion dominated Devotion and Devotion, in turn, is devoted to Dominion... but that sounds a bit Stockholm Syndrome-y/abusive relationship-esque so I went with a more light-hearted joke haha

Thanks for the heads up. I wondered if perhaps the opposites were some of the shards we don't know but apparently that is incorrect. Which leaves the possible theory that Adonalsium ended up being unbalanced by having more of one Intent than another... maybe? edit: Dominion would be in charge but would be so devoted to Devotion that Dominion would only do what Devotion approved of.

I agree - Adonalsium could have shattered differently (I believe there is a WoB about this). That does not, necessarily, negate the speculation about the paralysis caused by OIS (Opposite Intent Syndrome). But the fact that Adonalsium shattered into shards that have Intents leads me to believe that Adonalsium contained these Intents (and possibly more) which means that Adonalsium possibly could have reached some form of equilibrium after many, many years. This equilibrium might have been paralysis but perhaps it ended up being weighted towards a certain Intent. Perhaps that is a better theory - after thousands of years Adonalsium either became paralyzed by OIS or else became unbalanced towards a certain Intent or mix of Intents. This paralysis, or imbalance, is what caused (some) of the original Vessels to begin plotting to take down Adonalsium.

Ah, I was under the impression each Shard was mirrored by an opposite Intent. Is this confirmed by a WoB? My exact wording was that Adonalsium is the "combined form of the sixteen shards" or, in other words, if you put the sixteen shards back together the result would be what Adonalsium was. I am theorizing that Adonalsium was eventually rendered paralyzed by Opposite Intent Syndrome (OIS). I do, however, respect your disagreement.

We see in Harmony the problem of holding two shards with opposite Intents: creeping paralysis. It becomes harder and harder for Sazed to act. Adnolasium is the combined form of the sixteen shards... and their Intents. Perhaps Adonalsium was functionally inert by the time it was shattered? Perhaps those who shattered Adonalsium chose to do so because Adonalsium had become incapable of action? Ok Sharders, fire away!

@AndrolGenhald - thanks for that link! The quote from WoR is as follows (page 911-912 of the original Kindle edition): [emphasis mine] So, it looks like I was wrong. Szeth seems to be quite clearly referencing seven (7) Honorblades that are still in Shinovar. Szeth is still carrying another at this point, Taln has his and one (1) was recovered by a herald. Voila! Ten (10) Honorblades accounted for! Thanks everyone for helping clear that up for me.

Not to be nitpicky but I think this thread belongs in the "Cosmere Theories" forum. On topic - I always assumed that the Cognitive realm was more "fluid" in inhabited areas because there is such a concentrated mass of cognitive activity going on. Also, while writing that sentence I realized that doesn't make sense for uninhabited areas (deep mountain ranges, polar caps etc.) But! While writing that sentence I wondered if, perhaps, the reason land is "fluid" in the Cognitive Realm is because land can be modified quite readily by people and/or events. Farming, terraforming, earthquakes, volcano eruptions, erosion etc. are constantly causing the land to change in small but inexorable way. Water, on the other hand, is actually quite static no? Tides and seasonal melts etc. are predictable - one might even say they are "constants". So, in the Cognitive Realm water is solid because it does not change - its form in the Physical Realm is static.

I did see that reference and have reread the chapter in question. It is when Nalan revives Szeth. from page 1063 of the Kindle version of the original WoR: To me, that is a pretty flimsy reference to assert that the Shin have/had all nine (9) blades [and then gave one (1) to Szeth and had one (1) "recovered" by a Herald]. I will keep looking for the WoB that I vaguely recall where he stated the Shin have seven (7) blades but does not clarify if that includes Szeth's blade. It is entirely possible that they do have all seven (7) but it would also leave room in the story if there was a missing blade no?

Do we have a source for this? I have looked around and only found an ambiguous reference where Brandon says that the Shin have seven (7) Honorblades but he does not specify if that included Szeth's blade.

Wait, I thought the Shin originally had seven (7) but that they sent one (1) with Szeth meaning there are currently only six (6) in Shinovar. Did the Shin originally have eight (8) Honorblades?

Personally, I would hold-off on building any theories around that WoP as it seems Peter was unsure of the answer. If, however, it turns out to be true then that has some interesting implications.

[emphasis added by me] There is a WoB that makes it seem, to me, that Rosharan Investiture is extra good at keeping Rosharan's healthy. I do not think we can compare Nalthis - Roshar - Scadrial Investiture directly; each world will have varying amounts of Investiture and the effects of that Investiture can probably differ from world-to-world. WoB - http://stormfather.tumblr.com/post/108812172073 (towards the end of the post) [emphasis mine]

From what I understand, Renarin has been a proto-Radiant for quite some time which means, most likely, Ym and Renarin were both proto-Truthwatchers at the same point in time.

That's right, I had forgotten about that. So, with that knowledge we have... six (6) in Shinovar one (1) with Dalinar [szeth's old blade] one (1) with Taln [the actual Herald who was sent back to Braize] one (1) reclaimed by a Herald [best guess is Nalan but that is not confirmed] This leaves one (1) blade unaccounted for by my reasoning. Anyone know where it is or can point out what I missed?