smgorden

If it helps, put [correct term] in your passage and keep moving. Revisit when the chapter's done. I've only done it once, but I put something like [character X talks about whatever] in a chapter, because I had to write the rest of the chapter in order to know what would go inside those brackets. It wasn't ideal, but continuing on felt better at the time than trying to figure everything out first.

Hey friends. I finished writing a new chapter tonight (which I hadn't done since the end of the January). I'm excited.

I just discovered there is a Lounge. This seems crucial knowledge. How long has this been a thing?

Hi guys! Just checkin' in to say I'm still alive and my book is still alive. Crazy, awesome things are happening IRL, which has been a distraction from writing, but I'll be back in the submission mix before too long.

Shrike76: Great notes! I'm going to have to pour over these a few a times. But I particularly appreciate your thoughts on the tying the boy's threshold fears and his desire to overcome them to the previous conversation with the father. That's definitely gonna work its way into revisions, now. Thank you. I have the feeling, in summary, that these chapters are structurally alright, but I'll need to make brief the elements that are just scenery and have more points of specificity on the boy's journey, so we know that it's his experience. Again- thanks for digging deep on these chapters. Much appreciated. Regarding book length: This submission is near the half point of what I have written thus far. And I have maybe a short third of the book left to write. I'm approaching 60k total words now and estimate I'll hit 80k by the end (before cuts and revisions).

rdpulfer: - Why is the main character not terrified when he is with Joanna, but he's terrified with Trahaeran as they enter fairy land? Good question. It's partly to do with personalities. Joanna is not an adult, and while she is a fairy... she appears very normal and the boy relates to her. In short, he's interested and distracted. But also... Joanna hasn't taken the boy into Fairyland proper. A quote from the previous week's submission: “Was I just in Fairyland?” “Not really, no. We were just in the borders.” Crossing over with Trahaearn is a bit of an ordeal, in the traditional sense- it involves a bit of discomfort. - I'm really interested to see where this is going, especially at the end of the chapter. Wonderful! Always glad to hear that. Thank you!

Mandamon: "The first chapter ... and the [previous one ] could probably be combined." They sort of are combined. I split the chapters different to keep within the 5k limit. I will probably return to my original chapter breaks in revision. "I wasn't sure if they had transferred over to fairyland until they showed up at Mrs. Caughthron's house" Ah, I see. I'm aiming for disorientation, but I don't need that level of confusion. Thanks for letting me know. Should be simple enough to write in an observation, even in the boy's disoriented state, that they had not reached the crossing point at the bottom of the pool. "the boy doesn't really have any decisions to make." You know, you're right. That is a bit of weak chapter for protag-ing, so to speak. I'll have to think about that one. Thanks for the notes!

Last time on How Old Trahaearn Lost His Eye: Trahaearn has declared he and the boy will go to Fairyland to get the boy's father back. They make their way to Mrs. Caughthron's house, where the boy meets Joanna, a startling normal-looking fairy girl, who has a room full of drawers and keys, implying certain kinds of exploration that will probably happen in this weeks' submission. Feedback: for the regulars- same as usual. For the new folks- I'm most interested in commentary on the characters and relationships, and on your personal emotional experience of this part of the story.

king007: Alright. Thanks for clarifying your thought process. I'll make a note to review that meditation section, and make sure the hints there are well aligned with my intention. Going forward, know that the father is a real. I have reveals in store, but I'm no M.Night Shyamalan. Nothing quite as wild as an established character being totally imaginary or what have you. rdpulfer: Thank you, sir! I'm glad you're into the story. These chapters were where I figured out how I was going to tell the story, and the writing process moved along pretty well after I introduced the ladies. "Mrs. Caughthron... it might be good to introduce her prior, even just in passing conversation." This is probably a good idea. Chapter 1 will get cut from my next draft, and chapters 2-3 will be re-written to get these important establishing pieces in place. I'll have to include Mrs. Caughthron in that process. Thanks!

king007: Thanks for the feedback. One major issue I need ask about. "In the previous chapter, I was led to assume that the boy is a fairy or at least that he sustained a shock when he was younger and that made him create his imaginary friend Papa to get around that shock." I think you're picking on some hints about the backstory that are legit, but this is not an intended conclusion about the father. The boy and his father are farmers who live together, neither imaginary. Can you tell me what details or moments encouraged you to form this alternate conclusion? I think submitted a couple times prior to your joining the group. Perhaps by missing the beginning of the story, there might be room for doubt on the subject of the father, which would be interesting. Anyway, let me know how you arrived at the idea, if you would.

The slots are filling up quick, lately. I'll have a submission ready. Count me in, if there's room.

Robinski- Matrim Cauthon- I've read the first two WoT books, but have the darnedest time remembering anyone's name after I've set the books down for a while. As it happens, one of my best friend's surname is Cawthon. I got to like the sound of that name from that real-life reference and modified to suit my needs in the story. "“interruption is a violence” – violation?" Nope. Here it's being called a violence. Big Hydrangea- I think I was intending to something interesting with these hydrangea. I should probably cut them, so as not to distract. They're not actually important, anymore. "If you’re going to describe Mrs. Caughthron, I think you need to do it earlier, " Ahhh. Hadn't notice that yet. Interesting how quickly an image can form. My current writing is well ahead of this submission. I'll have to go back and see what descriptions I have in there, and move them up to the first appearance. All grammar notes: I trust your judgement on these things. Simpler phrasing is better, will use it. Reference to English/Earth: I feel the same way. Not sure what else to put there. This story should be plausibly Earth, but this particular sentence never sat right with me, either. I'll figure something out, eventually. But if you have suggestions... "Hmm, okay, the end of the chapter is a total cliff-hanger." I've been trying out new places for chapter breaks. That break was not the original/intended one. But my submission would have been around 7500 words (or alternately around 3000) otherwise. So apologies for that abruptness. As a sideline, I've heard Sanderson's qualms about cliffhangers. In general, I agree, but I've heard episodes where the dig into the idea and discuss different kinds of abrupt endings, and he goes on to qualify that he mostly hates the ones that introduce a new, unexplained element for shock value. And his issue seemed to be that if an author has so little faith in the quality of their work that need a shock-type cliffhanger to propel someone to the next chapter, that's a cheap shot. Anyway, for pacing, I could always go back to my original chapter breaks (which would include another section of Joanna's world), if needed. I'm not too worried about it at this stage. "The relationship between Joanna and the boy is crackling with the sweet tension of childish awkwardness." This is the best. I'm glad that's coming through. Thank you for commenting on what works. As you've seen, most of my attention in these chapters went to the dialog, and it's mostly the other details of setting that are slippery and need work. Clearly the basement is an issue. That's been a weird spot from my first draft (before revisions I made for this submission). As usual- great notes! Much appreciated.

Lots of the larger strokes are covered above, but a few items I had trouble with below: "Even flying at full speed, it took the pair a good ten minutes to fly up to the summit." I don't recall having been shown how far these characters can normally fly in ten minutes time, so I can't tell whether this means fast or slow compared to their potential. The phrase "a good ten minutes" might suggest that it has taken a bit of effort, but summit implies a great distance to the top. That sounds fast to me, but it sounds like it might be slow for those characters. Would help to have some point of previous reference. "It smells worse than a golem’s crap out here.’" heh. This is amusing. It might be funnier (if that's the intent) if we had some previous reference to this as well. Have we used the word golems yet? Does Hellas have experience with them. Is golem crap a known public nuisance? The phrase make it sound like dog crap in a park, where people except to be able to enjoy the premises without such hazards. I'm pretty sensitive to colloquial or other similar phrases, because I have a habit with books (and in real life) to ask where it came from. I like to imagine the scenario in which it was a matter of fact of issue of such frequency as to cross over into common parlance. Something to think about. Otherwise, I liked this submission. For my tastes, you've got a lot moment happening the moment which I find quite helpful. I was able to imagine the surrounding and moments more clearly than in previous chapters, which in retrospect felt rushed. We've moved away from rote description and into first-hand experience where I get to see things at the same time as your characters. That's where I want to be. For all the cool world-building you've thought up, it's that "on the way, doing things" feelings that grounds me and get me to start imagining things off-page, so to speak. So there are some good things at work here. Carry on- looking forward to the next!

Shrike76- Excellent! That's just what I was hoping you'd say

Robinski "What else would he squint?" - HA! What, indeed? Good note. greater/bigger: man, good note there too. I really enjoy the kinds of word usage you're noting. I'm a stickler for basic grammar (or so I believe). But sometimes the traditions of word choice slip by in the frenzy of writing. Thanks for taking the time to point these out. "sliding barn door"- dangit... thinking of grandpa's barn (metal, modern). Obviously, it should be hinged for this story. Yes. "don’t see how it would get started in the first place." Regarding fires, I have a lot of experience burning wood that's been rained or snowed on, what kind of intensity is required to burn it. But you're right in that it has not been explained. I'll have to put the boy through some paces of thinking of through the process, or possible just skip it and have the fire already build and setup previously, dry and ready to burn. Great notes, all! Sincerely appreciate your attention to detail and setting. I'll have to look up a few of the contextual problems in word choice and figure them out. But all good stuff. Thank you, sir!

Mandamon: The boy and his concern for Papa: he's panicked at the initial event. In the previous submission, Trahaearn takes the boy through a meditation. This calms him, but they head straight to the Caughthron's and his concern sneaks back in at this point. Very little time has passed since the boy woke up. Joanna is matter of fact about fairyland and Trahaearn, but not everything- as will be revealed. Her knowledge and experience have limits, and the story goes beyond them. Also, you didn't comment about your experience of this different in Joanna's attitude compared the mysterious tone of the story. I'm wondering- did this difference bother you greatly? Or is it the suddenness of available information that is jarring compared to expectations of mystery? Let me know how that went for you, specifically, if you would. Regarding the dreamy beginning; yes, definitely. The beginning will be shortened and re-written, so it matches the tone of the adventure part of the story (where I found my voice, so to speak). Gonna charge through to the end before I go back and do re-writes. Compelled to reach that first finish line. Great notes. Thank you!

Shrike76: Regarding the basement and scale. I re-wrote a section of this one before submitting it, and may have lost some cues about the shape of the basement. For the record, the stairs go down a long way, long enough that the ceiling is high and vaulted (a minor point in the grand scheme, but there are fantastical shenanigans available to explain this), with plenty of room for Rip. I'll be sure go back and cue up the scale of the basement prior to the reveal. Regarding Joanna: you know, I remember that question coming up in my mind before, but I never went back to solve. Glad you brought that up, as it needs to be acknowledged. Thank you!

Last time on How Old Trahaearn Lost His Eye: After his strange meeting with Trahaearn on the hill, the boy and his father return home. The boy puts away their cow, Efa. But there is strange shadows in the barn. A fairy maiden with brambles on her back milked Efa in the dark, and the boy has shooed her away as politely as he knows how. Back at the house, Papa has disappeared! Trahaearn arrives too late, but explains that Papa has been taken by the fairies. He looks after the boy, helps him to be calm in the morning. Declares that they'll go to Fairyland to get his father back! Current submission: two chapters. CAUGHTHRON'S UPSTAIRS Desired Feedback: Please continue to let me know how you're feeling about the characters and relationships. You folks are already great at spotting the line-to-line stuff, so keep that coming too! Thank you

king007: Thanks! I'm glad you're into the story. Eisenheim: Length: I'm aiming for middle grade length, which seems to have a reasonable cap of about 60k words. I have a feeling I'm going to overshoot that, and have to edit down to it afterward. Regarding age/maturity level of the boy: You're right. I had another friend point that out recently. Still puzzling over where to put him exactly, and how to make clear where he begins and how he progresses. I've got a few ideas for it, but haven't settled on a solution yet. I think he settles into a consistency as it goes forward. But keep me informed of your impressions.

I'll have a submission ready for the 25th if there's room.

More great notes! rdpulfer ====== "her words seem a bit too long-winded at times to feel really ominous" it's true, but her speech follows rules. I might revise at some point, or say less. But in general, her speech will probably suffer for brevity. "So it was the result of a spell? This might need to be explained a little more." Clarify this for me. What are you referring to? mandamon ========= RE: Bilbo falling unconcious. Haha! You know, it's been a while since I've done a Hobbit read through. I might have to brush up there and see how Tolkien handles those moments. I'm sure I can adjust slightly so it doesn't feel pulled straight from his work. shrike76 ======= "property line" - yeah. good point here. I'll think of something more landmark-ish. All the line-by-line notes are good to know. Thank you everyone! I'm charging ahead for now, to get to the end of the book. But the body of notes from this group is awesome. Gonna have plenty of work to do for the first full revision of the book. But I'm quite pleased with the kind of information I'm getting here. Regarding the gap between the beginning and this hook... I'm aware. Pretty sure chapter 1 is gonna get cut altogether, and maybe mash together some of the other short early chapters and weave the world-building that way, rather than front-loading it in traditional folk tale style. I like certain parts of traditional folk-tale format, but I'm willing to give in if it means drawing readers more reliably toward the hook. We'll see how it goes. Wish me luck

Thanks Mandamon! pg3 blocking: I'll fix that issue with the "motionless" bit. Thanks for pointing that out. on you note: "seems very Tolkien". Can you elaborate on this? I'm unclear on how it ties into Tolkien or cliche/tropes. Is it a tone thing? Let me know what you're picking up. I'd like to address it if there's a real issue there. Ever been seriously panicked? It's like breathing through a bag, or what have you. People do things when their involuntary functions aren't working right, or aren't sufficient for their current stress level. Great notes and comments. "I'm definitely hooked"- awwyiss.

The flow of the writing seems to be going well, overall, in this submission. We get to see the relationships at play, social tension, and some problem solving. In terms of perceived motion of the plot, it felt a little slow to me, compared to the word count. But otherwise, the problems and suspicions are working well for keeping interest. Epithets and curses: How many sacred body parts does Shiv have? It might not be important to the plot, but I'm hoping you know the answer and why kneecaps and toenails are important to these people. At the moment, it sounds a little loose to me. Not quite serious. Compare to the phrase "ancestor-cursed", which is consistent and suggests the specific behavior of ancestor-reverence/worship in the culture. That's got a lot more information in it, as a phrase, than the various Shiv references (without context). Inifinitives: "we are to be...", "I am to be...", I'm wondering about this choice and what you intend with it. It's consistent in this submission, so no overt problem, but I am wondering what the inspiration is. Is this a pattern you've found in an existing language (that you want to emulate), or did you make it up to draw a distinction between certain groups of people in your story? If it's the former, I'd be interested to learn about the reference point. If the latter, there might be other ways to accomplish the same end.

As others are noting... the intrigue is going strong- very cool! Lucifer's armor. Keeper of secrets. A concerned friend who frowns upon Hellas' choices. All good elements. I found myself immersed in this kind of flow easier than the previous submission. You're getting me wondering about what happens next. I like the Keeper. Riddles can be fun. However, since you're using a flashback, I'd recommend having the riddle phrased a totally different way than the Keeper tells it. Reason I'm suggesting that is, if he doesn't remember it immediately, that suggests it's familiar-but-not-identical-to another riddle he's heard. If you've ever heard a tough riddle and figured out the answer yourself... you will never forget that answer. At least, nobody I know who's put in that mental effort had ever forgotten the solution. So, consider that. Convenient way back to World's End- I'm good with it. I didn't quite understand that there was a separate, forgotten identity. But had I understood that- I would be curious about it, yes.

Due to the tone of the story, and having read the last two submission, I'm was ready to ride along this time. I figure most people will cover the line-by-line notes, so my comments will just be on the experience of the narrative and text as a whole in this submission. It moves quick, which can be quite good for an ending where the reader is eager to see how everything wraps up. So I like the pace. Some noted there are moments that feel like tropes, but I'm good with that. If you want more tension, you could draw those moments out longer, but that's a personal call, I think. However, if you do keep it as-is, I'd just say to punch it up so no one is confused that you're crafting that moment intentionally. That way, the worst anyone can say is that it's campy, or some such. Lots of folks like campy, so that could work. Regarding blocking: in any scene, there seems to be only about one note that describes the setting or where anybody is positioned with that setting. So I have a lot of floating faces that kind of move around depending on who's talking at the time. I don't know whether people are entering and exiting, or if everyone is standing very still, having their discussions. This could be an opportunity to expand your text in revision. Conclusion: I like it. Great job finishing your book! I can't wait to cross the finish line myself.