pharaoh9000

Is there any discussion on where exactly the sibling is slumbering?  This may affect who even has the opportunity to bond it.

Are we sure that "The Trill" as it is currently known was not formally two individual Unmade from long ago now bonded into one?

Quote

“The book,” Shallan said, “claims there were nine Unmade. That matches the vision Dalinar saw, though other reports speak of ten Unmade. They’re likely ancient spren, primal, from the days before human society and civilization.

Chapter 77, Stormshelter

1 hour ago, Knghtstlker said:

But what does everyone think about Ruin driving Vin's mother to scrape some silver off to expose the bronze. That gives at least 15'ish years for the scraped silver to fleck off and look like it had been losing it's coating the whole time. They never really describe where the silver is flaking off.

Hypothetically, the more silver that was plating the earring at the time it went through Vin's baby sister would have meant the less chance the bronze would've had to accept a Hemalurgic charge... or perhaps it might've even been, at most, a super weak charge (which I doubt Ruin would've been aiming for).

Also, if the earring started out with very little silver plating... enough to still accept a "good enough" Hemalurgic charge, then it's reasonable to assume that the earring would've been almost entirely bronze by the time we see it onscreen. Since Vin noticed the silver had "worn away in most places" over her lifetime, it's likely that Vin herself noticed more silver on it in her youth than what she sees on it by the time she meets Kelsier.  At least that's my takeaway.

It's more reasonable to assume that there was no silver on the earring when it was used Hemalurgically, and it was put there at a later date.  For me, this fits better canonically... considering how silver functions on Scadrial.

Yeah... that definitely breaks some of the fantasy for me when I dream of Brandon Sanderson's pre-planning genius... but I can't help but feel that Brandon's behind-the-scenes writing process and the finalized canon we are presented are two completely different conversations.

Silver definitely has a future role to play, I believe. Even though I'm shooting in the dark as to what that role might be.  But regardless of what we are allowed to know about his writing process, it doesn't change the fact that the finalized pieces need to fit.  And currently,  we still don't have an answer to a lot of these questions.

@Calderis  makes a compelling point about how silver's value on Scadrial would be equal to/greater than aluminum if I were correct about it being a nullifying metal.  So I'll have to buff that out as I polish my silver/aluminum/ralkalest theories.

If feel like silver is special... I'm just enjoying the ride trying to find out how.

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

Era 2 aluminum is used so widely specifically for its investiture immunity. If silver did the same thing, it would have been mentioned a long time ago as silver is naturally much much easier to get ahold of on Scadrial.

That's actually a really good point there.

19 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

Nice signed books, @pharaoh9000. You fot any more? Silver-related or otherwise?

Nope, not yet.  I do have more questions for Brandon about Ralkalest/Aluminum/Silver... and whatever the metal is that spren become when they become living shardblades/tools. The 'keyhole' to the Oathgate in WoR is said by Shallan to be "...made of the same stuff..."  I believe there is more to be uncovered about silver and the people within the cosmere who already know its secrets.

I really believe Silver to be the more perfect version of aluminum (so to speak).  Whereas aluminum is "investiture-dampening" as described above, I think silver is more like perfect "investiture-nullification" if you will.  Just like aluminum can be burned by a mistborn or misting... but silver cannot... regardless of how invested the user.  I doubt Ralkalest is aluminum, because it's referred to as "The unForgeable Metal"... which even in its name insists that it can't be manipulated at all with investiture.  Sounds like silver is a better candidate because on other worlds like Scadrial, aluminum can be manipulated with investiture when it is burned by a mistborn or aluminum misting.  (Hey, Brandon... Can a Mistborn burn Ralkalest?)

I know that there are some instances when modern scadrians use aluminum as shielding, but again... I have a hunch that in these cases, aluminum is just a poor man's silver.  Vin had a hemalurgic seeker spike adding to her own mistborn seeker abilities, thus she gained the ability to pierce copperclouds when she shouldn't have been able to.  It stands to reason, in my mind, that the same hemalurgic boost given to a Coinshot, for one example, would allow that coinshot to just barely steelpush an aluminum object.  (Hey, Brandon... Can a Coinshot steelpush pure silver?)

With each new book available for signing, I'll focus on more silver questions until Brandon shoots down all of my silver theories himself.

So I'll be... silver surfing... for quite a while yet. 

On 9/23/2017 at 2:54 AM, Calderis said:

I think it was made with a silver plating and had started to wear away before it had been used Hemalurgically.

6 hours ago, Calderis said:

Except its not. They still use silver for jewelry and the like. It's used in almost all the same ways it was historically here. Why would they use an Allomantic metal for ornamentation when it can be used allomantically? 

It's still valuable for the same reasons it's valuable here. 

Value is still tied to rarity, and copper and bronze are still less rare than silver. The value of bronze is probably higher than it should be relatively, simply because of it's allomantic properties, but silver is still valuable. 

A silver plated earring exists on Scadrial for the same reason it does here. It's cheaper than a solid silver earring. 

At the time Vin was an infant, the earring must have been plain bronze with no silver plating.   Vin (in the quote posted) remembers that there used to be plating before it wore away in most places. She wouldn't remember plating that wore away in most places unless the plating was there (or mostly there) during her memorable lifetime.  There is almost no chance that the silver-plating was there and wearing away at the time the earring was used to pierce Vin's sister and obtain a hemalurgic charge...  or else Vin wouldn't remember that there used to be silver-plating on her earring.

2 minutes ago, Argent said:

That's the thing, we don't know. It is described as silvery in color, but that could make it silver, aluminum, or something else. There has been a strong precedent for it being made of aluminum (at least partially), as it is known to have investiture-dampening properties (Brandon has described it as "magically inert"), and it's the one I am rooting for. Honestly, the only time silver is weird is on Threndody. I know Brandon has confirmed that the silver there is actual silver (not mislabeled aluminum, like some people thought at the time), and that silver has a bigger role to play, but I honestly don't like those. From what we have seen, aluminum is the one to watch, not silver.

Hmm.  Interesting.  I've always thought of Aluminum as a poor man's Silver, much like to a mistborn Electrum would be a poor man's Atium.  I have a hunch about the role silver is playing in the cosmere, but obviously I could be wrong.   Is there a WoB that the Ralkalest of Sel is truly aluminum? ...or is that just the wiki or a popular belief?

20 minutes ago, Calderis said:

I think it was made with a silver playing and had started to wear away before it had been used Hemalurgically. 

If the bronze was already exposed, the silver wouldn't have been a problem. 

Vin and Reen were street rats, jumping from thieving crew to thieving crew. They'd never have been able to pay for something like this, and no one else would have taken the time. 

Era 1 is finished. We have the complete story of Vin. That world quite literally no longer exists in the form it did. Unless there is some reason to exhumed the bodies of Vin and Elend, I don't know how we'll ever see that earring again. 

I don't mean to be so negative towards this. I could be completely wrong. I just don't see it. 

Era 1 is technically over. Yes. I know it seems a small thing to have noticed.  But Brandon still has plenty to explain from Era 1 and plenty of ways he could go about doing so... as we've seen with Secret History and the clues uncovered about Era 1 during Era 2 and specifically at the end of Bands of Mourning.  We still have another book from Era 2 and, moreover, Era 3 from the Scadrians.   So far, the more obscure events of Era 1 have continued to be relevant whenever BS write from Scadrial.

To me, this is less about the just earring itself... but moreso, this is about the mysteries of Silver, its properties within the Cosmere, and (most importantly) who would be knowledgeable of such things.  Firstly, from just Scadrial... and secondly, possibly throughout the cosmere.

This is part of my larger investigation into Silver in the Cosmere.  Figuring out whoever did this could be a major clue.

I asked Brandon more specifics about Silver during the AU release and I got a very curious answer in response.

I asked "Nightblood's sheath and Silence's dagger are silver... Does silver have more secrets to reveal to us? Does it have some Cosmere-sized significance?"

He said "Nightblood's sheath is indeed of cosmere-sized significance... but it may not be actual silver."

Interesting wording, don't you think?

I am wanting to know everything I can about so-called "silver," so-called "aluminum," and especially the people in the Cosmere who seem to know more than others about their/its properties.

What metal is Nightblood's sheath made of?

We may have not seen the last of Ym's spren.

I too have a pet theory that Kaladin's mother is lighteyed and using those drops for her eyes.  The flaw in the theory is, of course, even though children of a lighteyed/darkeyed union can be either lighteyed or darkeyed, what are the odds that both of her only children would be born darkeyed?

It seems unlikely that one of her children wouldn't have turned out lighteyed or one-eyed...

I will say though, while I enjoy playing witht the idea that Hesina is secretly a lighteyes, I don't like the idea that Kaladin is Dalinar's son.  Seems to bit too much of a stretch.

Renarin will be a brilliant tactician.  I think this will be his role as a Knight Radiant.  I think that using his surges, he will be able to "see" many different battlefield variables that others can't see or consider.  I think his progression surge will then allow him to calculate the most likely path all of those variable will take throughout the course of battle and war.

I believe Renarin will eventually grow as a Radiant who becomes an absolute master strategist and tactician.  While maybe Truthwatchers were likely never the fighter-types primarily, I feel that Renarin has an eagerness to learn fighting as best as he can.  His history of being denied the chance to fight and grow as a warrior will probably drive him more than usual to become physically proficient as a fighter. Maybe not on the level of the Kaladins of the world... but I'm betting still more so than any Truthwatcher in history.  His eagerness to join battle, fight, and grow in skill has been one of the main focuses of his character.

As he progresses in skill and understanding of fighting... i believe this will only increase his abilities as a master tactician (increasing the number of variables he understands).  I think that the more variables a Truthwatcher can take in and calculate, the more accurate the truths they will see.  ...and therefore the more accurate their strategies and counter-strategies can be in war.  I believe this is Renarin's power.  I think he will eventually develop into a Truthwatcher so strong that no one on Roshar can outthink him.

Gangster indeed.

But the blade didn't vanish from either Amaram's or Kaladin's hand at any point... You'd think Heleran would've summoned it back as soon as he realized the borrowing person isn't among the living anymore. 

 

While I do agree that the person Kaladin has killed may not be Heleran, I think we should use Occam's Razor here. Red-haired Sharbearer with the same sword Shallan remembers Heleran having? It could be another Veden, but I think it's far more likely it's actually Heleran. Not to mention that it gives more possibilities, narrative-wise, if Shallan finds out Kaladin was the one to kill her brother.

This assumes that the shardbearer Kaladin killed was the borrower and Heleran held the primary bond to the blade.  For all we know, Heleran was the borrower.  We've seen shardblades shared and borrowed on a regular basis... such as the King's blades and the late Gavilar's blade.  With Heleran being part of a secret society, who knows what exchanges take place with their blades and plates.  Heck, the "red-haired veden" could have been anybody.  On Roshar, we know red hair isn't exclusive to Shallan's family.

Occam's Razor does incline me to believe that it was Heleran that Kaladin killed, but I have to admit the door is still open for Brandon to say Heleran is alive.

They do hire different voice actors for (pretty much) every character, add special effects, do dramatic reading. Go to their website, find one of Brandon's books (or any book, really), and listen to an audio sample, it'll give you a good idea. My personal favorite is the one from Elantris.

My personal favorite Graphic Audio is Warbreaker.  It was absolutely amazing!

Also, Argent.... I was feeling the same way about the strange absence of Graphic Audio conversation on these forums (not that I've been a sharder for that long)... but I just about lost it when I heard that The Way of Kings was "coming soon!" from GA.

I am both fearful and excited all at the same time!

My one small gripe is that the GA cover art is a bit of a spoiler for people new to WoK... :-(  hopefully folks who haven't read the books don't notice that wonderful glowing he's doing.

It's quite possible that after 4.5K years all the original surgebinders in Nalan's Skybreaker team have died, and their powers went with them. Keep in mind, no surgebinders we know of have been born for thousands of years up to this point. The spren pulled out and refused to risk themselves again. Could be that Nalan has been making do with what he has, unable to actually utilize any surgebinders up until now.

Also, would Nale even allow more skybreakers in his organization? If a new would-be-skybreaker began to manifest abilities, wouldn't he simply hunt them down as well?

Mraize mentioned how Helaran Davar had sought out the skybreakers and from the in world Words of Radiance

    This act of great villainy went beyond the impudence which had hitherto been ascribed to the orders; as the fighting was particularly intense at this time, many attributed this act to a sense of inherent betrayal; and after they withdrew, about two thousand made assault upon them, destroying much of the membership; but this was only nine of the ten, as one said they would not abandon their arms and flee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine.

      —From Words of Radiance, chapter 38, page 20

  Pay extra attention to the line "but this was only nine of the ten, as one said they would not abandon their arms and flee, but instead entertained great subterfuge at the expense of the other nine."

This leads me to believe that the skybreakers were the order that hid based on the existence of Nale's underlings and how Helaran apparently tried to find them.

 

And if the skybreakers are still around that would mean Nale has a LOT of people who can help him.

At least from what we've seen, I think we can safely assume that not all (if any) of Nalan's minions are true Skybreakers.

During the Lift hunt when one of his minions slit Gawx's throat, Nalan chided him about it, and the minion responded "Aren’t we above their laws?"...  At which point Nalan released Lift, walked up to the minion, and slapped the p*ss out of him.  Nalan had to actually explain the importance of laws to him.  This would not have had to happen if the minion was a man who had sworn the oaths or spoken the Second Ideal of the Skybreakers ("I will put the law before all else.")...

We also never see his minions surgebinding or using stormlight themselves (though, we haven't seen enough of them to be certain yet). One of them may possess a shardblade, but that's not enough to suggest full Skybreaker status.

Yes, I think his minions are part of some sort of organization he has developed... but we haven't seen enough evidence to suggest they are Skybreakers (if Nalan has any).

So Nalan does seem to be traveling faster than normal. Something is suspicious about that. I'm totally able to believe in Nale having a deep organization of his own after 4500 years or so. Though, I still wonder why his minions don't show up nearly as often as Nale does. He seems mostly solo besides when he hunted Lift.

There are a few things about Nalan that have me curious about his (possible) abilities... and possibly the Skybreakers' as well.  It's not really a proper theory or anything... but maybe you guys can help me figure this out and clear up my confusion.

Here is where my confusion begins in Words of Radiance:

1. (Interlude-2) We see Nalan in Iri hunting Ym.

Iri, Azir, and the Frostlands are pretty far apart on the map of Roshar.  Iri is far NorthWest, the Frostlands are far SouthEast, and Azir is nearer to the middle (but it's a little closer to Iri than the Frostlands).  In any case, Nalan seems to be covering a lot of ground awfully fast during the events of WoR.  How?  I wonder how much time it really takes to travel across practically all of Roshar like that.

If he is 'flying', then isn't that about the most overt way of getting around that he could possibly choose? If he is traveling by foot, then how would he cover so much ground so fast?

Nalan's Minions-

1. When he hunts Ym in Iri, he has no minions.

His minions are extremely knowledgeable about stormlight, investiture, and the like.  One of them even has a shardblade... So I doubt that these minions were a couple of nobodies just drafted to help Nalan out in Azir only... and only for one case.

Time -

I'd be willing to believe Nalan simply travelled in one single direction during the events of WoR (First Iri, then Azir, then to the Frostlands) if it weren't for the time he spent on each case.  In each case (Ym/Lift/Szeth) Nalan made it a point to explain how much work he'd put into each person.

1. Nalan to Ym = "I had to look very hard to discover your indiscretion."

On top of this, Lift already had prior experiences with him and knew he was dangerous.  By the time she first saw him enter the palace during her story arc, she already had a name for him in her mind - Darkness.

He seems to spend an awful lot of time and energy in each case and location he visits.  Even understanding their laws and abiding by them.  The mountains of paperwork he and his minions prepared in Azir to apprehend Lift could not have been an overnight task.  To some extent, Nalan seems to have some roots in these places.

His emotionlessness -

• When talking to Szeth: "He spoke the words calmly, without emotion."
• While chasing Lift: “'What was that?' Darkness asked, his voice cold, emotionless."
• Talking to Ym: “'You were an accomplice to murder,' the man said, pulling his gloves on more tightly, first one hand, then the other. He spoke with such a stark lack of emotion, he could have been conversing about the weather."
• Notable words from Lift: "He didn’t curse in annoyance. A fellow should curse. Made people feel real when they did that. But of course, Darkness wasn’t a real person. Of that, though little else, she was sure." and she also referred to him having "dead eyes" when she first saw him.

All of Nalan's emotionlessness makes me feel like something more is going on than just a personality flaw. Are we dealing with more than one Nalan? Is it possible that we are dealing with Nalan's self-puppets somehow? ...mere husks of "Nalan Prime" whom we haven't really seen yet? Can he somehow use his Division surge to split thereby making "copies" of himself?  Is the Nightwatcher involved?

...Or is he getting the help of an Elsecaller?  Is he 'flying' and somehow avoiding detection from the general population?  What the crap is going on?

Am I missing something super simple, here?

A Sanderson-fan/friend of mine mentioned to me that the red spots on the metal spike found in Paalm could be indicative of Odium on Scadrial.  As Odium's spren on Roshar were red, my friend says Odium's influence might have something to do with the red on the metal spike as well.

I don't know if I buy that theory or not... but it does make me think.  I always thought the culprit was Autonomy because of Paalm's rantings about freedom... but the Autonomy/Odium co-op theory makes me think again from scratch.

I mostly agree with you that something being described as 'silver' does not necessarily mean that it is silver, even more so with 'silvery', but it was from the Vasher POV that the sheath was described as 'silver', which I think makes it more likely to be true, as he would know what the true metal was, rather than if the description had come from Vivenna's POV, who would only know what it appears to be.

 

I've personally been thinking that silver is a special metal in the Cosmere. I think that silver is to the Cognitive Realm as Aluminum is to the Spiritual Realm. Aluminum is inhibitory and possibly destructive in the spiritual realm, while silver is inhibitory and seemingly destructive in the cognitive realm. Nightblood's sheath seems mostly contains his ability to influence people, and silver blocks and damages cognitive shadows as we see on Threnody. However, if silver is damaging to all cognitive shadows, it would likely be damaging to splinters as well, and if spren could be hurt with silver then someone on Roshar would have figured that out by now.

 

There isn't a whole lot of evidence for this right now, but I still think that silver would not be super special on Threnody without also being special in the rest of the Cosmere. Yes, Scadrial has plenty of metals that are special there but not elsewhere, but their focus is metals and also the metals are not the source of their magical effects, but rather the power of Preservation being channeled through you.

THIS! gives me hope that i'm not crazy. Thank you!  I may have some stuff way wrong, but silver being special on Threnody, but not the rest of the cosmere is super unlikely.  And what you said about Vasher's perspective... i was like "BOOM!!! YES!!!"

I hope not. Lol. What about silence's dagger? ...and silver's role on Threnody?

I really have my hopes up about the possible applications of silver in the cosmere.

A couple of points,

Nightbloods sheathe is silver in color but I don't believe it was mentioned to be made of silver as far as we know, same with Shardplate and Blades, calling a sword 'silver' or 'silvery' is pretty common, it just refers to a brightly polished metallic color.

Half-Shards use durability-enhancing fabrials so while the metal may also be important it's definitely not as simple as slapping some gems onto a silver shield.

Aluminium, Chromium, Duralumin or Nicrosil could all get rid of Atium far more efficiently than Electrum can, Electrum negates its effect on one person, that's all. Aluminium doesn't even need to be burned to be useful against Seers, since it has no Atium shadows and has known effects on other magic systems as well.

All good points. Makes me sad. I know it's common to refer to things as silver, but it sure seems like more than that to me.

Do you think any old sheath could keep nightblood contained?

I don't mean to suggest that all silver has the same properties as shardblades. But I'm asking the question of silver's meaning or value in the cosmere. Why does it seem to be important? It seems like there is something special about silver. I may not have all of my theories right... but it feels like I'm barking up the right tree.

Ok, friends, I apologize if this has already been discussed before.  I searched for a post about it and couldn't find one, so I figured I'd open the discussion if it doesn't already exist.

I've been noticing what I feel to be a quiet trend going on in the Cosmere - Silver.  I would like your opinions on what this could mean or if i'm just plain crazy.  Silver is not always in a meaningful spot within the Cosmere (clothing, decor, etc)... but when it does appear in a meaningful role, it seems to work the same way throughout the Cosmere.  

Considering how often Silver makes an appearance, it seems apparent that the metal is present on all of the cosmere worlds... some of those worlds seem to have discovered its very special uses and effects.

Just to name a few key examples of silver making notable appearances within the Cosmere:

• Nalthis - Nightblood's sheath.  To contain Nightblood's immense powers and abilities, he is kept within a silver sheath. When Nightblood is even slightly released from this sheath, his power is also released and he influences his surroundings.  Like taking the cap off of something that kept him "bottled" up.
• Threnody - Silence Montane's dagger.  Silver (weapons/dust) is the only thing on Threnody known to touch/harm/ward against shades... hence Silence's silver dagger.  Silver can even heal a whither wound that has recently been caused by a shade.  Silver on Threnody is widely known and coveted because of its effectiveness against shades.  This is important because shades are, presumably, connected to/from/part of the spiritual realm.  And yet silver is the one known defense that can touch/fight/resist them without ill effect.
• Scadrial - Electrum.  I've always wondered why silver itself wasn't technically an allomantic metal... it seems like it should be.  It does, however, show up in the Silver+Gold alloy known as Electrum.  As near as I can tell, Electrum is the only metal of the 16 metals that is powerful enough to neutralize a God Metal (Atium) in another allomancer.  "Thank you, Silver... because without you, Gold alone would only let me see my possible past self.  With you, however, I can see all of my future selves - disabling Atium's advantage for its user.  Whew!"  Silver saves the day again!
• Roshar - Shardplate, shardblades, (and half-shards?).  The shardplate(s) and shardblades of Roshar are repeatedly referred to as silver.  Let's start with a few quotes.  WoK Prologue mentioned Szeth's honorblade: "Szeth turned and continued on his way, slippered feet falling on the soft red rug. The Shardblade, as always, glistened silver and clean." ... and before that, the WoK Prelude mentioned shardplate itself: "Juxtaposed between them were others in gleaming plate armor. One group walked past, four men in their ragged tanned skins or shoddy leather joining a powerful figure in beautiful silver plate, amazingly intricate. Such a contrast."  Along with many MANY other examples and quotes throughout WoK and WoR that (other than paint and ornamentation) repeatedly refer to Shardplate and shardblades as silver or "silvery metal."  

Crazy questions: In keeping with this silver theory here, is this what spren become when they transform into shardblades?...do they imitate/become silver?  Could this be why shardblades can block/hit other shardblades and yet cut through everything else as if it wasn't even there?  When the Vedens manufactured "half-shards," were they made of silver?  Shallan encountered a keyhole at the Oathgate (at the end of WoR) that was "made of the same stuff" as a shardblade, as she put it.  It doesn't seem implied that a spren had transformed into said keyhole... but rather unlike shardblades, no spren was involved.  I theorize that no spren is necessary for this "stuff" (silver?) to exist in the physical realm.  Therefore, the keyhole could possibly be made of simple silver.  It's possible that the Vedens have managed to create their half-shards simply by discovering the proper metal to use when forging them.

1.) Have some Veden smiths forge shields of silver.

2.) Power the shield with infused gemstones (just like shardplate).

3.) and VIOLA! ...Half-Shard?

... Crazy crazy questions bouncing around my head.

At any rate, one thing that seems certain to me is that silver is very special within the cosmere.  It's possible that its effects and influence span across all three realms at once!  I'm not saying that everything described as "silver" or "silvery" has some profound meaning behind it... but there might just be a bit of a cosmere-sized trend here.

• "Wit picked his way through the groups of attendants, holding a cup of wine in one hand, silver sword belted at his side."
• "Wit sat on a raised stool at the end of the bridge leading onto the island. Wit actually dressed as a lighteyes should—he wore a stiff black uniform, silver sword at his waist."

Seems like Hoid knows something about the benefits and usefulness of silver that we don't.