the.fulgid

This is a post I need to watch very closely. You both have theories which border my own, and I'm interested to see how many more people out there have similar thoughts.

I'm inclined to believe that the force which shattered Adonalsium was likely equal in power, or with help became equal in power, but was not a shard of the same entity. They existed in the same Cosmere and the opposing force employed others, like the original 16 Shard holders, to help in the endeavor.

Definitely a unique idea, and much like Brandon I won't say it's impossible. But as others have mentioned, Hoid's references to his origin is a discussion in his previous identities, not a shrouded statement of his inception. His earliest appearance, chronologically, is as a human known by the name of Midius during a time when he was apprenticed to a lightweaver named Hoid. After his master died, Midius started calling himself Hoid, possibly to convince people he was the same person. Centuries later (still human), he went by the name of Topaz, which is the rock he was known for. In his current incarnation he goes by the name of Wit, "a name that references what [he] presumes to be one of [his] virtues". So, in terms of his names and identities, there isn't much which confirms he wouldn't be human. Beginning life as a thought, concept, or words on a page could just be a very mysterious way of saying "I wrote out a plan for who I wanted to be. Now I've put that plan into motion and have become that person." Hoid's connection to Investiture is a different matter, however. We still don't know entirely how it works or what all it can do, so you might be onto something there. There are few of your points I'd like to touch on, though. I don't think that Investiture is directly connected to a spirit. Not in the way you mean at least. Investiture DOES connect to their spirit web, but while everyone has a spirit web, not everyone is invested. For example, on Roshar Investiture comes through Stormlight. Everyone is alive and has a soul, but only those who have bonded a spren or have an Honorblade can use that Investiture. On Nalthis it is true that everyone has a Breath, or small part of them that was bestowed by Endowment, and giving that up prevents them from using Investiture. However, they can get another Breath any time they want, it doesn't have to be their own. The spirit doesn't change when they give that up, just how much they're Invested. By comparison, if Investiture WAS directly connected to the soul and a person's life, then Allomancers would burn their souls out of existence each time they used metal. As for Shardblades, they cut a living thing off from it's spirit, which DOES kill it. This is different from a Drab. While Drabs may seem lifeless, they can still move around, breath, talk, perform all normal, daily activities. In fact, unless you're paying attention it's difficult to even tell if someone is Drab at first glance. Shardblade severed limbs are quite different. They're completely dead, not able to move at all, and it's very obvious they are severed. They don't just lack Investiture, they lack life entirely. There's even less to them than an Awakened Lifeless. Also note that Hoid never said he was immune to Shardblades, just that it didn't pose him a threat. It's possible that he knows how to use Stormlight to heal severed limbs, he's also quite adept at avoiding fights. More importantly, there is the fact that he is just simply hard to kill. Not immortal, but near enough so that the idea of dying doesn't scare him much, regardless of the method. Plus he could have just been trying to convince Jasnah to not attack him. Lastly, the Shards, including Odium, and not immune to the effects of others. An epigraph in either WoK or WoR (I don't remember which) says "Three of sixteen ruled, but now the broken one reigns." Something happened to Odium causing him to not be whole anymore, possibly a result of his battle with Honor, Devotion, or Dominion. Maybe all three. (As a side note, this leads me to ask the question of what happened to Cultivation if Odium now reigns over everything?) Also, the author of the Second Letter states that Odium is contained. If he had another, more powerful magic, they probably wouldn't have been able to stop him at all. Overall, I think I agree that Hoid has some magic going on that might not be part of Adonalsium, or at least not in any form that can now be found under the influence of the Shards. But he's still most likely human, with only one over-arching form of magic prevailing in the Cosmere.

Vasher is Zahel in WoR. It's noticeable due to his original language making reference to different colors, his ability to sense people long before he naturally should know they're there, and alluding to hearing Nightblood's thoughts when Kaladin wakes him up (during his interlude chapter).

Resurrecting a somewhat dead topic here, but I think I have to agree with this. I don't think Bleeder and The Set are under the same influence. Bleeder is focused on freeing society and culture from Harmony's influence and control, not unlike what Khriss was trying to do in White Sand with her kingdom. The Set are trying to gain power by sowing chaos and inciting rebellion, which seems to fall in line with what Hrathen did in Duladel. Hrathen is from Fjorden, which I'm pretty certain is influenced by Dominion. On that note, while we do know that that the unknown metal in SoS came from a known shard, there has been no confirmation that Trell IS that shard. If Odium and Bavadin can work together, what's stopping other shards from doing the same? It's possible that Trell is not influenced by or part of a shard we know, but is working with one we do in order to achieve his own goals in the Cosmere. Kind of an antithesis to Hoid (who we know also isn't part of and does not have any shards). Edited for grammatical issues because I don't know how to properly proof read.

Really, all we need to do is dissect the two letters from Stormlight Archive to get a decent understanding of what Hoid and the 17th Shard are up to. In the first letter, presumably written by Hoid, he is trying to stop Odium. "Before, you asked why I was so concerned. It is for the following reason: Ati was once a kind and generous man, and you saw what became of him. Rayse, on the other hand, was among the most loathsome, crafty, and dangerous individuals I had ever met. He holds the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards...One need only look at the aftermath of his brief visit to Sel to see proof of what I say. In case you have turned a blind eye to that disaster, know that Aona and Skai are both dead, and that which they held has been Splintered. Presumably to prevent anyone from rising up to challenge Rayse." At the very least, his short term game is to stop Rayse. We know that he can predict certain Cosmere scale events, so it's possible and even likely that he can feel something coming. And, if you've read Dragonsteel, you know even more that this is true. As for the 17th Shard, both letters provide great insight. The first one confirms that those chasing the author are of the 17th shard: "I am being chased. Your friends of the Seventeenth Shard, I suspect." If The Recipient is of the 17th Shard, and the author of The Second Letter, then it's safe to assume that they have similar goals and intentions. These are stated in the following: "Our interference so far has brought nothing but pain. My path has been chosen very deliberately...Rayse is captive...I do not believe we could hope for a better outcome than this...You, however, have never been a force for equilibrium. You tow chaos behind you like a corpse dragged by one leg through the snow. Please, hearken to my plea. Leave that place and join me in my oath of nonintervention. The cosmere itself may depend upon our restraint." TL:DR is basically that Hoid has the intent of stopping Rayse, preventing the deaths of his friends, and possibly allowing the "gods" of each shard to continue on in peace. My guess is that he's building power to do that. He has a bead of Lerasium, he's got at leasat 200 breaths, possibly studying hemalurgy, has spent a great deal of time on Roshar, and is undoubtedly trying to figure out a way to gain access to the Dor. The Recipient, and by association the 17th Shard, want to leave the Cosmere as it is, let things play out through their natural course, and allow the people to defend themselves. They don't interfere beyond the point of trying to catch Hoid.

Frost is actually theorized to be the recipient of "The Letter", not the sender, and author of the second one which is a series of epigraphs in WoR. Beyond that, we don't actually have any clear evidence yet that he really is a Worldhopper. It's very likely, considering that he is a dragon who was also present at The Shattering, but there's nothing solid so far. It's possible that he never left Yolen, and The Letter was sent to him there. All that aside, that's a great list! I might also add

Thank you, I greatly appreciate the quick response on that.

Blaze1616: That's a pretty clear cut, I guess. Is that on Theoryland? Or do you at least have a link? Not that I disbelieve, I just like to read more on everything I can find. Landis963: I will agree, they all have great reason for their mistrust, and Vivenna is quite ridiculous in everything she does (though, I have to admit my heart breaks for her more than any character I have ever read, I think). But all the characters of Taldain have great reason to be autonomous, not just because their emotions or mentalities are being warped. That's why I didn't immediately dismiss the idea. You are correct though, there would likely be a second magic system related to the second shard holder. But, like Ruin and Preservation, there's no reason they couldn't be so similar that it's hard to distinguish unless you know what to look for. Or like on Sel, where magic manifests in different ways in different parts of the world. I think Blaze1616 pretty much puts it to rest, though.

I'm currently re-reading Warbreaker, and I'm starting to think that there might be more than one shard on Nalthis. A number of bits in this are going to be somewhat spoilery, so bear that in mind if you haven't finished this book. What we know for sure: Something I've noticed during this read is that the main characters tend to trust those whom they should not, and ignore, fear, and reject those who are trying to help make things better. For example: All of those things might just be part of the writing style, and how the kingdom operates. We are a product of our experiences, and maybe those exact same events would play out no matter which world the characters were on. However, we've seen a similar influence on Taldain. It has been confirmed that Bavadin is there, and he holds the shard of Autonomy. It's expressed in the actions of the people, wanting to be independent. To take charge and assert themselves. We also see it on Roshar, with the Knights Radiant. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find a second shard on Nalthis related to Deception or Mistrust. Some kind of influence causing people to act the way they do. Are there any credible sources that deny the possibility of more shards on that world, or is this a possibility? Thoughts?

Haha that too. I was slightly chastised the other day for dropping hints related to Dragonsteel and other parts of Hoid's history, so I was trying to avoid such things. But yes, he was around hundreds, if not thousands, of years before Elantrians were a thing on Sel.

The are a few problems with that theory, unfortunately. We don't have any evidence that Elantrian offspring are taken by the Shaod, or that Elantrians even CAN have children, given the seemingly eternal state of their bodies. So he likely isn't descended from an Elantrian. There's the possibility that the Shaod affected him, but not to a complete degree, and thus he's only half transformed. But, as we know, not only is he not from Arelon, he's not even from Sel. So that's even more unlikely than the mixed blood option. He could mimic the effects, as Hrathen did, but that would only be temporary, and likely a waste of his time to keep up such pretense.

I think I actually have read somewhere, probably on here or Coppermind, that shareholders did indeed create life on the planets they went to. We know for sure that Ruin and Preservation worked together to create life on Scadrial. I won't say it's canon or truth, but I don't think it's too far fetched to believe it possible others did the same.

The tamed ones don't fit in very well with the wild ones, similar to how a human living in the wild doesn't fit in with people from the homeland. It's a social issue. They've become too dependent on human interaction. And I don't know for certain if it has a shard or not, but it might be close enough to a world that DOES have one that First of the Sun could feel the effects.

My first introduction to Brandon was also the final three novels of the Wheel of Time series. I'd been reading that for nearly 15 years, and was not going to start anything else until it was finished. I really enjoyed Brandon's style and change of pace, but didn't think about looking into his other works. Once it was done, a friend recommended Mistborn. However I told myself I was far too busy to start a three book series. Christmas of that year I was given Way of Kings as a gift, but it sat on my shelf for two months before I finally blew off the dust and thumbed through the first couple chapters. Before I knew it I had finished the book and had a "surging" feeling to read Words of Radiance. Before getting even halfway through that I was determined to read more of this man's writings. My next find was Warbreaker, on his site, which left me "breathless". I quickly purchased the Mistborn trilogy and Alloy of Law, and "burned" through all four in a span of about 3 weeks. That is when my curiosity piqued for a greater understanding of the cosmere, which I had heard so much about. As a result, I resolved to read all related cosmere novels. To date, I own and have read both Stormlight books, all five currently published Mistborn books, Warbreaker, Elantris, Emporer's Soul, Dragonsteel, the sample chapters of Liar of Partinel, Sixth of the Dusk, and Hope of Elantris. I also have Shadows for Silence, The Eleventh Metal, White Sand, and Aether of Night, but still need to read them, and probably in that order. I'm also incredibly excited for Bands of Mourning, and will keep reading about the cosmere as long as there are books about it.

I like how he says he ORIGINALLY got it because he wanted to be an Allomancer. Does that mean he no longer wants to be? Or at least he has different reasons for taking the Lerasium now?

Ah, finally, a place to share my epiphany from the other day. While waiting for the train to work, this sudden thought of the cause of the Shattering hit me. I apologize for the length this will undoubtedly end up being, but first, some slight backstory: At the Shadows of Self midnight release and book signing, I asked Brandon about the magic system on Yolen, seen in Dragonsteel, and its relation to other magic systems in the cosmere. His response was "You have to remember that Dragonsteel is pre-Shattering." I have a completely different reason for asking that question, but his answer intrigued me. What's more, he started to say why it HAD to be pre-Shattering, but then stopped himself. Without too much discussion on the "forbidden zone" of unpublished works, I think it's safe to say that it has to be pre-Shattering because the "opposing force" is likely the same threat that Hoid knows is coming, though he doesn't know who/what it is or what it will do, despite actively trying to fight it. Even then, Frost had a "non-intervention" policy, not wanting to get involved in major events. In The Second Letter he says "My path has been chosen very deliberately." He chooses to not interfere, and tries very hard to persuade Hoid to join him. However, immediately before that, in the same Letter, he says, "Is not the destruction we have wrought enough? The worlds you now tread bear the touch and design of Adonalsium. Our interference so far has brought nothing but pain." He goes on to talk about Rayse, and the danger he poses, and how they are "as infants", and don't know what they're doing. Based on the Letter alone, it's seems to me that Hoid and Frost either indirectly or even DIRECTLY caused the Shattering. Considering Frost's policy pre-Shattering, and his vehement adherence to it post-Shattering, I think Hoid probably convinced him to set it aside for a brief period of time and take up the fight against the "opposing force". However, that led to pain, destruction, and worlds bearing "the touch and design of Adonalsium". Thus Frost goes back to his non-intervention policy, and even goes as far as to send the 17th Shard after Hoid to stop him from mucking things up further. We do know that the Shattering was a deliberate choice, possibly to stop the "opposing force" from getting Adonalsium, and I think it might have been caused by those two. But they didn't realize what effects such a decision would cause. As to whether or not Adonalsium was held by someone that died, causing it shatter, or the nature of it before those events, I can't say.

Khyrindor is correct, from what I can decipher. His abilities allow him to transcend the 4th dimension, not just the 3rd, at least to a degree. And I believe I heard someone say that he can move FORWARD in time, but not back. Don't quote me on that though, I don't know if it's true. But even before the Shattering (presumably before having 4th dimensional abilities), he was several centuries old. Again, not as old as Frost, though. That guy remembers millennia before Hoid was even born.

We can safely say that we know Lightweaver of Rens will be part of Hoid's backstory, so he likely had Lightweaving pre-Shattering. I can't say that worldhopping came before the Shattering, but I don't think it came much later. Possibly as a result of the Shattering. But since we've seen people of the 17th Shard following him, people who AREN'T Splinters, Shard holders, or Heralds, I don't think that ability came from those sources. Brandon has also said that he is very difficult to kill. Now, that might be a result of combined Allomancy and Feruchemy. The Second Letter refers to him "in [his] current incarnation". Maybe that just means his disguise. However, I believe these mean something much different. In short, I don't think he's a Shard, Splinter, or Herald, but something else entirely. Something very unique. And he's making himself more so as he goes to each world and picks up bits and pieces.

Since I'm brand new to the Forums, I'm just now getting to posting my Q&As from the BYU Library signing. I was going to try and hide the Dragonsteel bits in a spoilery section, but apparently I don't know how. Sorry! 1. Q: It seems to be more and more apparent that different abilities are granted depending on the design of one's spiritweb. Is the design of a spiritweb, and the abilities it grants, limited to a specific shardworld, or are the designs universal across the cosmere? For example: can a worldhopper from Roshar travel to Scadrial and access previously locked portions of their spiritweb through methods such as hemalurgy? A: Most abilities are free to be used across the cosmere, but some are VERY region-locked, like with Elantris. They have difficulty using their abilities outside their own country. There is a reason for this. But most are able to be used elsewhere. 2. Q: Is it possible for there to be a microkinetic who can see spiritwebs to the point that they could alter a web, granting at will new abilities that were previously inaccesible? A: It IS possible that a person could exist who uses micokinesis to see spiritwebs and alter them according to their will. However, Dragonsteel is pre-Shattering. (Which I infer to mean microkinesis no longer exists post-Shattering, when other magic abilities become prevalent.) Those were my only two questions. I will note that I was intrigued by his statement about Dragonsteel being pre-Shattering, and told him that I (and others) were under the impression that Liar of Partinel and Lightweaver of Rens were pre, while Dragonsteel and everything after was post. To my great pleasure he said "No, it is definitely pre-Shattering because..." and then kind of bit his tongue to stop himself from saying more, and just nodded his head. Take from that what you will, I know what I theorize from it.

If you find one, let me know. I've got a million theories on different things about that book, and would love to discuss them. Unfortunately none of my cosmere-enthusiast friends have read it, so I can't really theorize with them about things pertaining to it.

Hello community! I'm excited we have this wonderful site, where I can finally discuess and theorize in great depth with people who actually care about what I have to say, rather than bore the ears off friends, family, and coworkers who don't care. My name is Sean and I have become a great fan of Sanderson's work, my first introduction being the final three novels of the Wheel of Time series. I was given Way of Kings as a Christmas gift, and upon finishing my first read-through had a "surging" feeling to read Words of Radiance. Before getting even halfway through I was determined to read more of his writings. My next find was Warbreaker, which left me "breathless". I quickly purchased the Mistborn trilogy, as well as Alloy of Law, and "burned" through all four in a span of about 3 weeks. That is when my curiosity piqued for a greater understanding of the cosmere, of which I had heard so much about. As a result, I have resolved to read all related cosmere novels. To date, I own and have read both Stormlight books, all five currently published Mistborn books, Warbreaker, Elantris, Emporer's Soul, Dragonsteel, and the sample chapters of Liar of Partinel. I have Sixth of the Dusk, Shadows for Silence, White Sand, and Aether of Night, and am incredibly excited for Bands of Mourning to come out in January. My favorite thing to do with the stories is see how they're connected, and unravel the mysteries of the Cosmere. Pretty sure I'm on the right track to figuring out who/what caused the Shattering, and the purpose behind our favorite Worldhopper traveling to different shardworlds. I may post it on here at a later time.

I actually just asked Brandon about his at the Shadows of Self book signing. I also thought Dragonsteel was post-Shattering, but he clarified: ALL novels in the Dragonsteel series (Liar of Partinel, Lightweaver of Rens, Dragonsteel Prime, and the other four sequels) are pre-Shattering. That's the purpose of the series, to explain HOW Adonalsium was shattered, and why. For further clarification on those books, I've read his sample chapters from Liar of Partinel, and they're not bad. Only really pertains to the Dragonsteel series thus far, doens't help to understand any of the other Cosmere novels. It IS interesting, however, to read those chapters and then Dragonsteel Prime, which is indeed set hundreds of years later, and realize that the characters you're reading about (Midius and Topaz) are the SAME person, who is also Wit. As for Dragonsteel Prime, there are actually THREE copies at the BYU library, and Brandon has his own original copy. So four total in existence. It's a good read, not his best work, but definitely my favorite story. Unfortunatley most of it isn't cannon anymore, as at least half was directly lifted and placed in Way of Kings. It provides much greater insight into the Cosmere, though, and how things came to be as they are now.