Deus Ex Biotica

It's worse than you think. Your computer is a Slider, and the bill for the $1,273.89 worth of Bendalloy it spent on buying you a few extra minutes of game time will arrive shortly.

(At least, that's what happened to me when I started Mass Effect...)

At the beginning of Mistborn: The Final Empire, Vin doesn't know she's an Allomancer, but has been burning metals instinctively for years. This gives her the knack for quickly mastering the art which makes her into the unstoppable Allomantic whirlwind we all know and love. Fair enough. Still, I have one small issue with this: where is she getting the metals?

I know that Kelsier tells us it was bits of her eating utensils, impurities in the water, etc. But that doesn't really make sense, does it? If Vin was just instinctively burning whatever random metals were in her stomach, she wouldn't have been a good luck charm and budding threat to her crew leader, she would have been sick all the time. Allomancy requires very pure metals or alloys, to the point where it requires specialized shops that exist for the sole purpose of providing those things, and live in fear of giving a bad batch to a Mistborn, who then kills them all.

But, apparently, young Vin could just burn at random, and come out fine. This mysterious talent did nothing to help her find the true alloy of Aluminum, though.

Does anyone know why?

-- Deus Ex Biotica

So, in the Thread about Allomancy and metal poisoning, it was remarked upon that, in theory, an Aluminum Gnat could burn off toxic Allomantic metals (like Cadmium and Bendalloy) using their Alluminum. And - gasp - a use for them was found.

The purpose of this Thread is to discuss other such uses, for them and their Duralumin cousins.

* Who says Aluminum only burns off Allomantic metals? Maybe it would also work on other metallic poisons. I wouldn't count on it, though.

* If you find someone's trove of Aluminum, you can destroy their money quickly, I guess. Or destroy crucial evidence, if that evidence involves Aluminum bullets. This is probably quite unpleasant - I wonder if doing it too much makes you an Aluminum Savant...

* Speaking of bullets, I guess if someone shot you with an aluminum one (maybe your buddy is a Coinshot?), and your reactions were very, very fast, you could destroy it as it entered your body, minimizing damage.

* I guess the same thing works with full-steel bullets like the ones used by Wax, though clearly, it would not work on normal lead ones, unless Aluminum really can dissolve other metals.

Sadly, other than eating someone's (really unlikely) stash of allomantically pure Duralumin, I cannot think of a use for the other type of Gnat. Any ideas?

-- Deus Ex Biotica

On a related note, I do not think I would like to eat flakes of steel, personally. Are people in Scadrial possessed of really, really tough digestive tracts, to avoid dying of internal bleeding from metals cutting them up?

But of course! Now everything makes so much more sense! The Seventeenth Shard are chasing Hoid for his waffles. Bavadin and Rayse clearly stole Hoid's waffles some time in the distant past, and the resulting anger shattered the powers of creation itself, leaving them free to carry out their waffle-vendetta with ease.

Whose cuisine... shall reign supreme?!

I personally think that Atium-Electrum would be the future opposite of Gold, as has been mentioned. Note also that (on the table of Allomantic metals poster) Atium alloys give "expanded" Mental and Temporal effects while Lerasium alloys give "expanded" Physical and Enhancement effects. Some more food for thought.

That... raises a lot of questions. I mean, the person writing the section doesn't say anything about each God Metal only alloying with 8 other metals, though I suppose they might not know everything, either.

Just flipping the internal/external component doesn't seem to answer everything, to me. We have exactly one example (Malatium), and it doesn't fit that pattern perfectly, if only because we have the External of Gold, and it doesn't do what Malatium does. So, assuming that Aluminum Gnats will just become Leechers when that didn't happen with Gold doesn't really make sense to me. I am not certain what I am saying would happen, however, so I am going to revisit what we do know, and what I assume, to build a more concrete theory.

What is Atium? Pieces of Ruin's body. What is Ruin? A force for absolute destruction. What does Atium do? Lets you see a few seconds into the future. Yeah, this seems a little confusing to me, too. But what do we know about the future? It cannot be changed, except by someone who can see it. That means that, when burned, Atium lets you destroy causality, if only a little bit.

Alloy it with Gold. What is Gold? The Internal Temporal Pulling metal. It can let you see (and see through the eyes of) a past version of yourself. Nobody else can see or interact with this duplicate. What does alloyed Gold/Malatium do? It lets you see a past version of someone else. As far as we know, nobody else can see this duplicate, including the person themself). The other person cannot (to our knowledge) touch or see through the eyes of their duplicate, either. If they could, surely Rashek and the Lord Ruler would have reacted to each other quite dramatically. The person burning Malatium cannot interact with the duplicate in any way, either. Why not? There are some annotations on the subject, but they specifically state that "the Eleventh Metal isn't actually an alloy of gold, but an alloy of atium," so I think we may assume that some details of that explanation, at least, have changed as Brandon Sanderson developed his ideas further.

That was a bit of a dead end. But it gives me an idea - Atium is the essence of Ruin. Mix metals with the essence of Ruin and what magic do you get? Hemalurgy. What if the Atium alloys all duplicate when the metals would be used for in Hemalurgy? This is annoyingly impossible to test, since we do not know what Gold is used for in Hemalurgy, but as I type it, it makes sense to me: Lerasium, alloyed with a metal, gives you Allomancy with that metal. Why shouldn't it? That's what Preservation's power plus a given metal is. Therefore, I shall theorize that a Gold Hemalurgy Spike can steal memories of people's pasts, and thus Malatium lets you see part of another's past. By that standard, Atium/Iron would give prodigious strength when burned, while Atium/Steel would let you break the usual upper limits on Physical Allomancy while it was burning, and so on.

Most of that speculation didn't really lead up to my theory, did it? I suppose I should go back and delete it, but I am not that confident in my theory yet. We know so little about this, that I shall leave even my fruitless speculation - mabe it will help spark someone else's genius ideas.

That said, I really like this idea. To me, at least, it seems entirely logical.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

[shocking opinion totally different from anything else in this thread] I loved Alloy of Law. [/shocking]

In addition to its many literary and entertainment merits discussed in previous posts, I find it a really interesting development in Brandon Sanderson's style. It is much shorter and lighter on subplots than any other book of his I've read, and also much more liberal with action sequences (I think that Hero Of Ages might have had as many, but sometimes the heroes win unambiguous victories in the fights from Alloy Of Law). Getting to taste some of the variety of powers available in the form of Twinborn was very cool, too - it is fascinating to me that the Metallic Arts have grown from the versatile but in many ways limited 10 metals of The Final Empire's opening to a system with 288+ different powers available*, but since we've seen it develop every step of the way, those powers still seem logical and intuitive.

The only major complaint I have about it is the announcement implying that the next Mistborn books after this will be a timeskip, so we will not get to see the rest of Wax's story directly. I am certain that Brandon Sanderson knows what he's doing, and that will be fulfilling once we see it in action, but it still made me somewhat uneasy.

My minor complaint of choice is that this book has made it impossible for me to picture playing the upcoming Mistborn RPG (the one from Crafty Games, not the Inquisition one hosted on this site) in the Final Empire setting. Any group of heroes there would just wind up feeling like rehashes of Kelsier's crew to me; while the much larger range of options, removal of the "Mistborn who is just more important than anyone else in the group" factor, and society where people being adventurous is much less often answered by slamming hooks through their necks all make Alloy-era play seem more logical and appealing to me. Sorry, Crafty guys, I know you've put a lot of work into researching and writing the setting info in the RPG book, but when I get my copy, I'll be adapting it to this era right off (on the plus side, I'm pretty well certain to buy the Alloy of Law supplement, when it comes).

-- Deus Ex Biotica

* I counted 16 types of Misting, 16 types of Ferring, and another 16x16 options for the Twinborn, some of whom seem more like distinct powers from the sum of their parts than others (at the very least, all the Doubles like Miles deserve that credit, I think, and combinations like Crashing open up some exciting new ground, too). You'd have to add a whole bunch more to cover the possibilities of Mistborn (who seem to be gone, but possible), and Feruchemists (who might not be gone at all) with one ability from the other Art (no, I do not know if that can happen), and to cover all the combinations with Koloss-Blooded, if you count them separately. And according to the Ars at the end, Atium and Larasium, if they're still around, don't just add two more metals to the mix, they add 34...

So, now that the book is out, we know that the new Feruchemical abilities are:

Chromium: Stores Fortune.

Nicrosil: Stores Investure.

Aluminum: Stores Identity.

Duralumin: Stores Connection.

Fortune seems to be luck. The implications of this are huge (what happens if someone empties years of accumulated luck?), but fairly understandable. And Connection is what the Terrisman uses in the Broadsheet. It seems really useful - you could fill the Metalmind to become very stealthy, probably with all the "no life sense" stuff that makes Drabs so hard to notice in Warbreaker, as well as people tending to write you off if they do see you, and then empty it again to make people instantly trust you.

The other two, though, we don't get any details on - apparently, the "writer" of the sections doesn't even think the sages in Terris understand what storing "investure" means. Speculation time!

So. Aluminum is "Identity," which is the Pulling equivalent of storing Connection. This seems somewhat straight-forward - when you fill it, you lose connection with yourself, and when you tap it, you become highly self-aware. I can see how the advantages of this would largely be spiritual: it might help you avoid emotional Allomancy, or something, but mostly, it could be a tool to put parts of yourself you do not want into a Metalmind, then throw that Metalmind away (or get the appropriate Gnat to burn it up). Since there is very little overlap in the magic systems of Mistborn, I can only assume that you do not lose memories of things you put into the Aluminummind, however, you simple lose any personal attachment to them. Spooky.

And then, there's "Investure," the Push to Fortune's Pull (or, if you like, the External Spiritual Push). Since Fortune is all about changing how outside factors affect you, it seems logical to me that Nicrosilminds (am I the only one who finds the Metalminds of more exotic metals make for really silly words?) store how much you can affect outside factors. No wonder even Terris sages don't understand it - that would be almost impossible to directly measure, or even see, the effects of. But it does give me the hilarious notion that someone who could both fill and burn Nicrosil would wind up the center of an ever-expanding force of "world-affectingness," not unlike a few boys I once heard of from the Two Rivers...

-- Deus Ex Biotica

Sure, Musicspren, but by that same token, the bullets should be getting damaged (maybe even shredded), rather than just getting skewed.

Oddly, if the distortion of bullets is caused by differing magical forces, rather than differing physical ones (or any similar handwavey reasoning), then that makes my idea of a Bendalloy Misting/Chromium Ferring (who shoots a lot out of Speed Bubbles while tapping Luck, to hit despite the distortion) somewhat less workable, since that might mean that the luck is somehow confined inside the bubble by the same forces which distort time, but not light. As with the rest of this thread, I suppose we do not have enough data.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

Does a weaker charge mean less ability to be controlled via Emotional Allomancy, though? I know it weakens the powers, but I've not seen anywhere that it weakens the... weakness.

(Granted, I haven't seen much outside of the books and annotations, so if that is information we have, I'm glad to get it!)

1: is it possible that other poeple were alive on Scadrial outside of the final empire (the nahlezan for instance)? It would help explain the need for misting breeders, as anyone not involved with TLR's ascencion would not have access to allomancy.

In the Annotations for Hero Of Ages, Brandon Sanderson is very clear on the point that only the polar regions of Scadrial were habitable, and the Final Empire is at the north pole. He poses the question of what is at the south pole multiple times, but offers no answer - it is safe to assume that something major is there.

to answer your first question, Sazed had old Inquisitor spikes melted down to make the earrings, and we don't know what it's made of, so we don't know what power it's giving him, whatever it was, it will be weak as the hemalurgic charge is very weak.

Wow. Good to know.

Hurm. I guess that means that if a Mistborn showed up in the time of Alloy Of Law, they could theoretically use Soothing with Duralumin to take control of any Pathist while the Pathist was praying, though in practice, Harmony would swat the attempt aside even more easily than Ruin used to. Still, food for thought...

-- Deus Ex Biotica

2) They are trying to breed an army of Mistings, but only for the purpose of using Hemalurgy to create a Mistborn instead. This is a fairly far-out situation, since we have no evidence the Set knows anything of Hemalurgy.

Very out there, especially in light of the fact that there seem to be a lot of Mistings (there are newspaper ads for their services!), so on the off chance that anyone did know how to use Hemalurgy, they could use it without needing a lot of high-profile kidnappings - it would be much easier to hire a seeker and hunt down outlaws and lowlifes who are Mistings, and murder them quietly.

I agree with most of this thread: The Set wants a Mistborn. Probably as a way to amass power (and a Mistborn would be very powerful, doubly so since many people seem to doubt whether they ever existed), but maybe they really are some twisted cult who think they are doing some sort of holy work. Either way, they'd better hope that Marsh runs out of Atium and dies before they succeed - with the full powers of Mistborn and Feruchemist, plus Atium to use if things get desperate, I really don't see many ways for a normal Mistborn to stop him, and if one of those started murdering/brainwashing everybody, he might very well get involved.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

These message boards are probably the most sophisticated of any I have ever joined, for the sole reason that on any other boards, I cannot possibly imagine Steris getting a full third of the vote.

Marasi is the answer we as readers, and Wax as a character, are inclined to want. She's beautiful, clever, and shares his interests. Passion always points to Marasi.

Steris is the answer that, ultimately, makes the most sense (it's not just my opinion - most of the Steris posts have detailed logical set-ups, while I do not recall any for Marasi). It saves his House (and thousands of families), it gives him a basis to attempt to bring down the Set (and their nebulous evil), and it is the best for Marasi (who really isn't ready for either the dullness of her hero settling down, or the excitement of him having adventures like this all the time).

I was sad when Wax made the right choice, but I was proud of him as a character, and Brandon Sanderson as a writer.

Then again, people tell me I have no romance in my soul.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

I wonder if, in this "modern" setting, aluminum will still be rare. If not, and assuming Allomancy is still relatively common (which I am assuming, what with a "Misting SWAT Team" and all), I would expect aluminum guns and bullets to be widely available, perhaps even the default. To say nothing of aluminum buttons, cars, etc.

I must say, the idea of jumping decades or more into a future where The Set is even more established depresses me somewhat, as it implies that, after Alloy Of Law, Wax spent the rest of his life trying to stop his uncle, but failed to either stop or expose him. Bummer. I suppose an old Waxillium might be some sort of mentor to the new set of protagonists, but I doubt it - if Alloy Of Law is equivalent to the 1850s, and technology progresses twice as fast in a world with the Words Of Founding to help out, this still sounds like the 1920s at the earliest to me (to get SWAT teams and widespread use of cars), so he would be in his late 70s - an impressive feat for a man who got shot repeatedly, and then spent his life fighting against a global conspiracy. And if the book goes all the way modern, it would just be absurd (technology would have to go three times as fast to catch Wax in his early 90s).

Still, seeing more of Scadrial is never a bad thing. I look forward to this series, even as I feel bad for Wax.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

Remember also that TLR is MUCH stronger than Miles, Allomantically. I'd hazard a guess that TLR got ~1000x out of compounding instead of 10x, if not a higher multiplier. And he could get even more out by using Duralumin...

I've been wondering about this, actually. Can a Compounder use Duralumin?

We know (by way of the Lord Ruler's fate, as well as Wax's inner monologue) that once you've started Compounding, it is dangerous to stop. And Duralumin consumes your entire reserve of every metal you are currently burning. So, in theory, if the Lord Ruler (who is burning Atium constantly, and probably Gold and the full range of physical metals, too) burned Duralumin, all of his Atium vanishes (with extra-potent effects... would he turn into a baby?), and now he's out, and ages to death in a few moments. If this were accompanied by his cellular regeneration, senses, etc. shutting down, it would be even worse, though when you're about to die anyway, I guess that doesn't matter as much.

In theory, maybe he could have an extra Atiummind on his person (but not in his body*) somewhere, and pull it out to swallow it, or stab himself, or something in the few seconds before he dies of old age. In practice, if he'd had one of those, he would have pulled it out when Vin tore his bracers off, and he did not (though it would not have mattered if he had - anyone could push a simple ring out of his hand before it had his blood to protect it). So, that is both a very risky strategy, and one we have evidence of him not using. It might even be impossible, if Atium has the same kind of delay between uses that Bendalloy does.

I suppose that, viewed in the proper light, this question might explain what was happening in his meditation chamber - he would occasionally flare Duralumin and consume his Atiumminds, thereby de-ageing to, say, 150 years old (an age that is ancient, but which he could survive by burning a Goldmind as soon as the Duralumin flare ends), then putting on a spare set of Atiumminds he prepared in advance to get young again.

If the accumulation of age eventually outstrips the power of Compounding, and Duralumin/Double Atium reduces "permanent" age, this would make a kind of sense, though I do not honestly think is what happened. I have always assumed he became weak in that chamber as a way of remembering the man he once was, if only rarely.

Besides, if Duralumin (or, worse, Aluminum itself) is suicide for the Lord Ruler, that explains a minor itch I've had since the end of Hero Of Ages. We know that Bendalloy and Cadmium had vanished from the world while Atium was there, and returned afterwards. But that still leaves the issue of Chromium and Nicrosil, which must have existed, and must have been known to the Lord Ruler (from the time when he was the Sliver Of Infinity), but were nowhere to be found, even in the storage caverns. If I am correct, then he would not have revealed them, even in the most secret of places, because either one of them could have allowed any Mistborn to kill him with a touch. And that's the sort of thing Rashek would never risk, not even if doing so is also a potential weapon for people to use against the Inquisitors.

-- Deus Ex Biotica

* I absolutely do not think he could Duralumin out one bracer while not tapping the other, and have the other bracer stay intact. Most Allomancers use a bunch of metal flakes spread through their internal organs, and if those all go up at once, I see no reason to assume why a bracer in a different arm is immune.

Hello, everyone! I recently discovered Brandon Sanderson, and have read all his books (aside from the Alcatraz series, which is on order, and the Wheel of Time novel, which is too daunting) within the past month. Thus simultaneously dizzied and fortified, I seek a community in which to vent my incessant musing on those books.

If I don't, I will probably drive all my friends insane.

I really like speculating on developments in advance, though I am a bit worried that I am not equal to long-range ideas I've seen sticking my nose in here today. I'm the sort of person who correctly sorted out the motivations of everyone in Warbreaker within the first third of the book (except that, for the longest time, I thought Lightsong was a reborn Arsteel), but didn't even notice Hoid's existence until I read the annotations - great with the elements in front of me, but no master of collating larger amounts of information.

I look forward to ranting, and hearing you all rant!

-- Deus Ex Biotica

P.S. Oh, I promised free cookies, didn't I? Here you go: