NutiketAiel

So, you're the one who asked the Aluminum question! Nice work, there was some really interesting information there for us to mull over. If you want the exact wording of your questions and answers (mine was paraphrased as well), check out the transcriptions of the audio recording, above. :-)

I am familiar with namespaces; I have a fair bit of experience as an editor on Wikipedia. I had assumed that you were talking about making a new namespace for theories when I first read your idea. However, that still leaves the problem of users who are less experienced with the Coppermind, or wikis in general, wandering into a page and being confused. I'm not saying that it's an enormous problem, but I still think that it is a problem. Perhaps it is just me, and perhaps this is because I am used to Wikipedia and not fiction wikis, but I see a wiki encyclopedia as a reference source for facts, not speculation. When a fan opens a page, any page, on the Coppermind, they should be sure that everything they are going to read is something that has been confirmed either by a plain text reading of the novels, or the direct words of the author- not the oft-times wild speculations of we crazy people here at the 17th Shard. Yes, factual articles linking to theories was what concerned me, not theories linking to articles (I worded that poorly, I now see). This rule would assuage that one particular concern, provided that it was rigidly enforced. Yes, I know, and I cringe every time I see them. However, not every time something is tagged with the "theory" tag is it actual theory. For example, I just picked a random article with that tag in it: Allomancy. The overwhelming majority of that section is not theory- it is fact, confirmed by the text of the novels, the text of the annotations or the WoB, and is cited as such. There are maybe 2 paragraphs worth of information in there that is not confirmed, and one of them was marked with a cite tag (I have taken the liberty of so marking the other). So, were those two sections to be omitted (or cited with relevant quotes), the theory tag could be removed in its entirety. My point being that some of the articles that contain "theories" actually have very little information that is theoretical, and that information could be removed without harming the articles. Indeed, I think it would greatly improve the articles to have that information removed, to allow the articles to stand solely on the facts contained therein. Of course it's not your intention. That doesn't mean that it isn't going to happen. And I agree that the forum is sadly limited in this regard, but I don't think adding speculation to the wiki en masse is the right solution. All this would do would be to try to solve one problem by creating another- the dilution of the reliability of the Coppermind. As I stated, I believe that the forum is the proper place for theories because on the forum, they can be discussed. On the Coppermind, they would just be presented. This can lead to any number of problems. Debate of the theories taking place on the talk pages of the Coppermind, for example. Besides perforce exclusion from the discussion of any 17th Sharders who don't participate in the Coppermind, it would be confusing and counter-productive to have discussions going on in more than one place. Another problem from the presentation of theories on the Coppermind is that an article written solely from the perspective of the user who proposed the theory would likely (not always, but likely) be biased in the theory's favor. Looking at your sample theory page, Tempus, I see several points that I would want to contest in a discussion. I can't, however, because there is no room for discussion on a wiki page. I could edit it, but then I would be changing your theory page. If you disagreed with the changes I was making, you'd likely revert them, which could lead to an edit war. Even if you and I were mature enough to come to a compromise on how the page should be worded, that will not always be the case. And that's assuming just two conflicting views; what if 3, or 6, or 10 Sharders all have different views of the merits and flaws of a theory and, rather than discussing it in the forums as we do now, simply started edit warring on the theory page? I think that presenting the theories like this would very likely lead to acrimony and needless strife, not to mention a lot of extra work for the poor, overworked and under-appreciated Coppermind admins as they sort through the various edit wars. I hope this makes the reasons behind my objection more plain. I am sorry I waited a few days to respond to your rebuttal, but I wanted to wait until I had time to respond in detail and give you the well thought out response that your case deserved. It's fairly obvious that I am in the minority on this issue, and I fully expect that your proposal will be approved in some form. If it does come to pass, however, I just hope that you, and the Coppermind admins, keep my concerns in mind as you decide how to implement it.

We'll probably get RAFO'd, as he did when I asked him whether all 16 original shardholders were human, but it's still worth a shot.

Oops; I accidentally downvoted Kurkistan's post! Perhaps I should stop using my phone to look at the forums. Either that, or I need to grow smaller thumbs. Sorry, Kurkistan. Would one of my fellow Sharders be so kind as to give the post an upvote to offset my misplaced thumb?

I don't think this is a very good idea. I personally would be opposed to the idea of putting theories on the wiki. No matter how carefully labeled they may be, they could still easily be confusing to an inexperienced reader, especially if they end up being linked to articles. The wiki should be for facts, information that we are sure of either from a clear text reading of the books, or the WoB. Theories should stay here, in the forum, for discussion.

Argent is right. Remember, that's why Scadrial's sun looked red during the reign of the Lord Ruler.

There's that word again. :-) I don't think that it would be out of line for aluminum (and some of its alloys) to be unique in this way. After all, if many different metals caused bizarre reactions in multiple magic systems, we'd likely have seen evidence of it by now (especially on Scadrial, given the advanced nature of their metallurgy). That's not a guarentee, of course, just my opinion; you could still be right. However, I think it would be wiser to be asking ourselves why aluminum has these unusual properties. What about it causes "weird" and "bizarre" effects in multiple magic systems? Perhaps aluminum has some as yet undiscovered and unexpected cognitive or spiritual properties in the cosmere. Hell, for all we know, aluminum could be Adonalsium's god-metal. I'm not seriously suggesting that; my point is simply that there is still an awful lot about the cosmere that we don't understand. We shouldn't take anything for granted. Edit: Hmm. Why does the forum say "calamity" when I try to type "H-E-Double-Hockey-Sticks"? Must make it hard to talk about Shadows for Silence in the Forests of Hell. :-P

Why would it be weird? Remember, he said it works differently for other magic systems; we have no idea what it would do in relation to soulcasting, or any other kind of surgebinding! We can't just assume that aluminum will simply cause magic not to function like it does with Allomancy. Remember that even in Allomancy this property is inconsistent- the metal is resistant to the powers granted by the other metals, but it is also an allomantic and feruchemical metal with its own properties! It's not as simple as just assuming that alluminum will cause any magic system it encounters to simply fail.

Ooh, good catch, I hadn't considered that. Makes sense; it could be alluminum, or maybe one if its alloys- we know from Alloy of Law that some alluminum alloys (like those used in the guns and ammo of the Vanishers) are also resistant (for lack of a better term) to Allomancy, so it stands to reason that some of its alloys would cause reactions with other magic systems as well. We have to be careful not to fall into the trap of just looking for examples of metals that resist the magic, though. Brandon specifically said that alluminum doesn't have the same effect on every magic system that it does on Allomancy; indeed, the word he used was bizarre, and when the man who came up with a magic system where you eat metal shavings to gain the power to fling coins about, emotionally manipulate others, see through mist and compress time says something is "bizarre," I assume he means it literally. ;-)

I would say the best comedian is one who doesn't need magic to evoke the desired responses. ;-)

Indeed. First, you feruchemically store some health in gold. Then, you burn the gold with the feruchemical storage in it. This vastly increases (exponentially increases? geometrically increases? do we have a source on scale here?) the amount of health released from the burned storage. The compounder then takes that massive burst of released health and stores it in a separate goldmind for later use. Lather, rince, repeat.

I was kind of shocked when he answered one person by pointing out that alluminum has "bizarre" effects on every magic system. It has made me start wondering what metal Nightblood's sheath is made from... Do we get any indication of this from the text of Warbreaker? For that matter, I'm thinking about those thingies they use to "blunt" the edges of shardblades in Words of Radiance; I need to go back and re-read those descriptions.Edit: OK, I confess. I need to reread every Cosmere book, hunting for signs of aluminum.

Indeed. The metal still would get used up during the process, I would think, so the armbands would show signs of deterioration if this was Miles' normal methodology. I suspect that, if Miles was aware at all that his allomancy could function in this way, he did so only in emergencies. For example, if someone drops a net on him and he has to blow himself to smithereens with a stick of dinamite to escape.

Well, most of these questions weren't us. Brandon let me sit at the side of his table, so I got to hear almost everyone's questions for him. He let me do the same thing for the A Memory of Light signing in Dayton last year. It was most informative. :-)

*Sigh* Well, I just spent the last hour transcribing noted from the signing, and my computer ate them. I'm tired, and I have to be at work in less than six hours, so I'm just going to do the highlights for now. I'll come back again and do a full report. As is my custom, and with Brandon's permission, I set up next to his signing table to take notes of the questions fans asked him while getting their books signed. Another Sharder had a recorder on the table, so with luck we will soon be getting a full recording, but I will transcribe some highlights here for the time being. Please note that, unless otherwise indicated, these are all paraphrases. Only when the words are in quotation marks should they be considered Brandon's exact words. Also, I will refrain from re-transcribing notes from the questions asked by those Sharders who have already posted. Q: How did Taravangian justify creating the Design if foretelling is considered to be of the Void? A: Taravangian would argue that he created the design using only the magically augmented strength of his own mind, not actual foretelling. Q: Dalinar doesn't have a "real" Spren. Does his bond represent an upgrade? A: Dalinar's bond is a very cool thing, but also a very dangerous thing. Q: How does dying affect a Spren bound with the Nahel bond? A: Dying, as long as the oaths are unbroken, does not necessarily affect the Spren in a really terrible way. Q: Are we ever going to know Hoid's real name? A: Eventually, but that "depends on what you regard as real." Q: Will the flute come back? A: Many are curious, but "I have been non-committal so far." At this point, and again at the end, one of our fellow Sharders asked a large number of very detailed questions about the astronomy of the Roshar system and Roshar's moons. I'll leave it to her to post the details, especially since in many cases Brandon pleaded a need to check with Peter on the precise information. Apparently, Peter is better with Astronomy. Another Sharder asked from very fascinating questions about Rosharan textiles, but again I will leave it to her to post the details of her questions. I would prefer not to usurp. Q: Is Vasher looking for Nightblood [on Roshar]? A: "Vasher misses Nightblood and feels responsible for him." Q: How many worldhoppers have their been? A: Brandon hasn;t kept track. 1 from Mistborn, and we haven;t picked out the Terriswoman yet (though she is not Tindwyl). Q: Is the Terriswoman the nurse in Warbreaker? A: RAFO Q: What happens to Allomancers who have an allergy to their metal? A: It would "definitely not be pleasant." However, Brandon noted that fewer people on Scadrial would have such allergies, owing to their investiture, but that it could happen. Q: Will there be leather bound editions of Stormlight Archive? A: Someday, but not in the near future, and a leather bound edition of Mistborn was likely to come first. Q: What would Willshapers think of Adolin killing Sadeas? A: They'd be OK with it. Q: Is the Evil on Threnody related to Adonalsum? A: Everything is related to Adonalsium. Q: Are Rhyshadium artificially created or enhanced? A: RAFO Q: Does each order of the Knights Radiant have a different Spren? A: Yes, each order has a distinctive Spren. Q: "Nohadon is still alive, right?" A: RAFO (By my judgement, Brandon seemed both amused and surprised by the question) Q: What is the likelihood of seeing a publication of White Sand? A: Currently working on a graphic novel. Q: Do you plan out the level of advancement for musical ability and technology on each planet? A: Brandon has a general idea, but does not plan it out in detail. Q: Any 1 armed Herdazian jokes? A: How do you get a one armed Herdazian out of a tree? Wave. Q: Jasnah is a very believable atheist. Was it difficult to write her? A: Brandon spent time in atheist forums to "learn how to talk to make her real." Q: How many people know Dalinar doesn't remember his wife? A: "Not very many at all." He has to fake it sometimes. Q: Have you listened to the audiobooks of your works? A: Yes, to hear their interpretations. "I love that Herdazians are Australians." Q: Is Lopen a major character in the back five books? A: No. Q: How will the shardic influence affect Harmony? A: Inability to act, trouble being proactive. "Two sides are pushing," and it will take a long time for this to become manifest. Q: Can Feruchemy only be inherited? A: Hemalurgic spikes are an option. It is hereditary, but it came from somewhere. RAFO, but not a big RAFO. There are other ways to get it. Q: Could Feruchemical Identity be used to heal damage in the Cognitive Realm? A: "Yes, but it's going to take a roundabout method." Identity is very useful for things like this. Q: Which was darker, Jasnah with Shallan in the alley, or Adolin and Sadeas? Were they on the same level? A: Adolin was less dark, from brandon's personal perspective. It was "something that needed to be done" that "no one else was capable of." There will be ramifications down the line. Q: Where is Hoid's "place where gods have died?" Was it Roshar? A: RAFO Q: Was Shallan's father actually her father? A: Yes, it was. Shallan's mother and father as presented were her parents. Q: Szeth hears his victims screaming. Was that his conscience, or a spren? A: Not a spren. Q: What idea came first, Pattern or the chalklings? A: Pattern was first. Q: Was the recipient of the letter in the Way of Kings epigraphs in Words of Radiance? A: "Not in Words of Radiance in person." RAFO, "but they have not appeared in person in the series yet." Q: Would Nightblood kill a non-Returned wielder? A: Nightblood would suck out the soul of anyone wielding it for too long without breath. Q: When does a person become a surgebinder? A: The bond starts forming before the words are spoken, but if no words are spoken, the bond will fade. Acting in a manner conducive with what the spren is looking for will draw the spren. I didn't catch the full question on one of these, but I did catch the answer- Stormlight can feed Nightblood. Q: Will we see a book focused on Lift? A: We are going to get a book with Lift as the main character, and we may see more shorts with her "because she's fun." Q: Is the 17th Shard limited in purpose to tracking down Hoid? A: Their purpose is grander than that. Hoid is one of many priorities for them. "They are very worried about what he is doing." "They have a task, they have goals, they are worried he will be working at cross purposes with them and they are trying to hunt him down." Q: Do we see Nazh? A: Nazh appears in one place in Words of Radiance. Q: Have we seen allomancy on Roshar? A: We have seen allomancy used in Roshar. Q: I didn;t get the whole question, but it was regarding the presence of alluminum on planets other than Scadrial. A: Alluminum has weird properties on all of the magic systems. Not the same effects as on allomancy, but some bizarre effects. Q: When using allomancy, does the metal have to actually be ingested? A: As long as the metal is not hemalurgically charged or hemalurgically placed, it does not have to be ingested. It can be inhaled, injected, impaled or any other way of being placed inside the body. Q: Is the Surge "Cohesion Strong Axial" related to half-shards? A: RAFO Q: Will a Radiant using an honorblade get those surges, too? A: Yes, "it is possible to get multiples." Q: Does Szeth have a puppy? What would that be like? A: "Szeth could totally use a puppy." He does not have one, but "he does now have something very puppy-like." Q: Is one of the first three lands of the Iriali Long Trail Braize? A: No Q: Did the shattering of honor happen in the Cognitive realm? A: "The shattering of a shard is something that transcends all three realms." Q: Any chance of a Nightblood POV? A: There is a chance, it is "something I have sincerely contemplated." Q: Was Nohadon a Bondsmith? A: RAFO Q: Have any Bondsmiths ever had Shardblades? A: RAFO, but Brandon said it was a good question. Q: Why do honorblades work as they do? A: They were crafted before shardblades existed. Shardblades were attempts by "certain individuals" to copy honorblades. We also were informed that the reading at our signing, the one involving a planet with a magic system based on gaining powers while ill, was from a planet in the Roshar System. And, finally, my questions: Q: Were the original 16 shardholders after the Shattering all human? A: RAFO However, Brandon did add that there were 3 sentient races on Yolen. Q: Were the original 16 shardholders all from Yolen? A: Yes. Brandon signed 3 books for me. The first was Emperor's Soul. I asked him to please write for the personalization any information about the Moon Scepter that he was willing to give us that we didn't already know. He gave it serious thought, and told me that there was very little to know about the moon scepter, but what there was to know was very spoilery. Ultimately, he wrote this: "Rafo! (But it is not Mraize's stick.)" I never believed that Mraize's stick was the Moon Scepter, but at least we can discount that crazy theory officially now. :-) I think Brandon felt sorry for me after that, because when he signed my copy of Words of Radiance, he chose to expound on one of his earlier answers about Yolen in the personalization. He wrote: "3 races on Yolen. Human Shodel Dragon" I don't know about you guys, but that is certainly new information to me. :-) All in all, despite my frustration with typing up my notes (stupid computer), I'd say this was a very informative signing.

Great venue, very nice and helpful staff at the store... but we are expecting 200+people, and there's no way we'll all fit. They're clearing off the tops of bookshelves to make more sitting room. Everyone's going to need to get real chummy. ;-)

I'm on site now, actually. 2nd person here. I can zip over to Staples if need be.

Hmmm... That's certain a valid interpretation of Rlain's comments and the available data, but I don't think anything we've seen excludes the possibility that they are Spren. I don't think we have enough data to make a judgement yet.

I plan to be there at or around 3 PM, and I'd be happy to meet with you guys ahead of time in the cafe. :-) I'll be the big darkeyes with glasses, a moustache, blue jeans and a dark grey shirt. I'll answer to "Jim" or "NutiketAiel." Bonus points if you pronounce it correctly. ;-)

That's a fair point, and I easily could be wrong. My question is this, though- does Forging work by changing the object's past because that is the only way the power can express itself, or does it work that way because the Forger is incapable of communicating with the Spren of the object and convincing it to allow the power to work on it in any other way? It's a question of whether the limitation is inherent to the way forging works, or a limitation based on the lack of capacity for forgers to enter Shadesmar. I tend to think it is the latter, but the former is equally possible. We'd never know unless we see a Forger who can also enter Shadesmar, or if we ask Brandon.

Humans existed before the Shattering of Adonalsium. We know this. Besides the existence of the original Shardholders that we know to have been human (Ati and Leras) and Hoid themselves, we know from Sazed's epigraphs in Hero of Ages that Preservation and Ruin created human life on Scadrial based on a form they had seen elsewhere. So, human life existed before Adonalsium was Shattered into Shards. This is established. But what about sapient races other than humans? Besides Adonalsium itself (most likely a singular being), every sapient species we have seen besides humans was either created from or by humans in some way (Kandra, Koloss, Elantrians, Nightblood), or are themselves splinters of a shard of Adonalsium (Seons, Skaze, Returned, most Spren), or splinters of Adonalsium directly (other Spren). Except on Roshar. The Listeners (or Parshendi if you prefer) are the first example we've seen of a sapient species that has no obvious connection to humanity or to a shard. Words of Radiance gives us much insight into the Listeners. I have transcribed a few choice bits: Words of Radiance, Interlude 5 (pages 395 and 396 in the hardcover edition). Listener Song of Secrets, 40th Stanza, epigraph of Chapter 28 of Words of Radiance (page 338 of the hardcover edition). Listener Song of Spren, 9th Stanza, epigraph of Chapter 32 of Words of Radiabce (page 368 of the hardcover edition) Listener Song of Secrets, Final Stanza, epigraph of Chapter 34 of Words of Radiance (page 385 of the hardcover edition) There's a common thread in all of the quotes I noted above- the idea of the Listeners having been betrayed by the Spren. On the surface, this idea makes no sense. The Spren have been identified by Jasnah and Shallan as being the product of human thought. So, if they were created by human thought, how could it be a betrayal for them to work with the humans? Many, if not all, of the Spren are splinters. We know, from the Word of Brandon, that many Spren are splinters of Honor or Cultivation, or some combination thereof (note). We also know that some are splinters of Adonalsium itself, directly, which he had left on Roshar intentionally (note). Humans are Children of Honor. Honor and Cultivation arrived on Roshar together. Odium arrived later. What evidence we have points to humans having been created by Honor, or by Honor and Cultivation. Honor and Cultivation are shards, so logically they cannot have existed prior to the Shattering. So, if there were no humans on Roshar prior to the Shattering, why did Adonalsium leave splinters of himself on that planet? I deduce that there was a sentient species already present on Roshar before the creation of humans- the Listeners. Either naturally evolved or, more likely, a creation of Adonalsium. Why do the Listeners see the Spren working with the humans as a betrayal? Because they, the original Spren, worked with the Listeners first. The humans came later, and some of the Spren, whether the older Adonalsium-based ones or the newer Honor/Cultivation based ones, chose to work with the humans instead. Why? Because Honor and Cultivation made the humans "meatier" for the Spren, as opposed to the brothy Listeners. So, when Odium came, and created Spren (or perhaps empowered existing Spren?) with his own splinters, in order to destroy, the Listeners turned to them as their gods. "Our gods were born splinters of a soul, of one who seeks to take control, destroys all the land that he beholds, with spite." Note that several passages confirm that the Listeners turned to their gods after this betrayal; I think this makes it abundantly clear that Odium did not, himself, create the Listeners (in case anyone wanted to argue for that). All that aside, we have this: The above quote is from the second letter in the epigraphs of Part 4 of Words of Radiance. It is, by my interpretation, a clear statement that Roshar (and possibly the other worlds in the Roshar System) were shaped directly by Adonalsium. All this seems indicative to me. I theorize that the Listeners were created by Adonalsium before the Shattering. This raises some interesting questions, if true. Why would Honor and Cultivation choose to create humans on a world that was already inhabited by sapient life? Were the Listeners changed by the arrival of the two shards? What was the relationship between humans and Listeners before the arrival of Odium? In any event, I am certainly interested in hearing thoughts on this theory, and on the questions it raises.

I think that Forging has the potential to turn a goblet into blood. It seems to me that the limitation is not inherent in the power; rather, it is limited by the forger's ability to communicate with the cognitive aspect of the object being forged. A Soulcaster enters the cognitive realm (or their mind does, at least) and communicates directly with the spren of the object. This allows them to, for lack of a better term, apply direct persuasion. The forger lacks the ability to communicate with the object's spren (I use the term "spren" for convenience, I know Sel doesn't have spren per se). So, the forger can only change an object into something that coincides with that object's self-image. The soulcaster can convince an object to change that self-image; the forger cannot. I think that, if we had a forger that had the ability to enter the cognitive realm or otherwise communicate directly with an object's spren, we would see a vast difference in the options available for forging.

The similarity seems pretty straightforward to me- in both cases, you are changing an object by changing how it sees itself, or working with how it sees itself. I am reminded of two particular scenes from Emperor's Soul that make very clear the similarity between forging and Shallan's need to convince the cognitive aspects of the objects that she wants to soulcast to agree to the change. First, the scene on Day 30 when Shai forges the stained glass window: Second, the scene on Day 76 when Shai creates a mural:

I found the quote I was looking for: This is from Chapter 67 of Words of Radiance (page 798 in the hardcover edition). This is, to the best of my knowledge, the only in character description we have of Hoid's mysterious ability to be in the right place at the right time, and I feel that it conforms to my thought that the ability is luck based rather than foresight based.

Oh, I didn't realize. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to come off like a jerk, I just assumed there was some place on the site where I could add it that I just wasn't seeing. Do you need more people to help with this sort of thing?