Amaror

I also have to say that I am suspicious of Renarin somehow. He might be the Copycat, though I have a different theory as to why. We don't really know what Truthwatchers do. When he predicted the coming of the Everstorm Renarin didn't come out and warn his father directly. He scratched very, VERY vague messages on the wall. When Dalinar was actively looking for Radiants, he still didn't come out. He also never made his message more precise. Always a vague warning. What if there is an oath of restricted interference for Truthwatchers? Seeing the future is thought as evil by the society which has to have some reason. Maybe there is a danger to a Truthwatchers power if they reveal too much about it. So they have to be mysterious and vague about everything. Trying to reveal their knowledge, but not actually revealing it directly. So what if Renarin commited the murder, or even just recreated it with someone allready dead, in order to force Adoling to come out. It looks very much like Renarin knows that Adolin did it. This is just wild-speculation of course, but maybe theres some truth in it.

I do think that we have a WOB stating that Shu-Kereth, and thus both Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth, were created after the splintering of Devotion and Dominion. That means that Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth were at least not influenced by Devotion and Dominion or their Shardbearers. Since both of them were created by Apprentices of the original Shu-Kereth inventor, I personally think it has most likely to do with their personal connection to the both shards rather than any direct Influence of the Shards.

I found that, to truly enjoy "Allomancer Jak and the Pits of Eltania", you have to read his Servers Annotations in tandem to reading the book itself. Just switch to the annotation anytime it comes up. I found the book boring without them, but when I read it in tandem with the annotations it was one of the most hilarious books I read in a long time.

At the risk of necroing this thread, I also have to go will Well of Ascension. I always enjoy a good venture into a new world and magic system so I really liked Elantris and White Sand, but WoA just seems rough. The whole Zane-Arc just goes against what has been established for Vins-Relationship with Elend and it's conclusion was painfully obvious the whole way through. The ending was good, but, as they say on Roshar, it's the road that matters.

I don't think the actual "book" part of it was the problem. The problem was the weird cuts by the gp-writer that mess up some of the context of the scenes and just the fact that you just can't port over a regular novel 1:1 into a graphic novel and expect it to work. They are vastly different mediums and need to be treated as such. But they literally copy nearly all the scenes in the graphic novel word for word from the prose version. And anything that they don't copy 1:1 they make worse. The prose novel was actually really enjoyable and was really fun to read. I think there's a direct link floating around were you can get it, but you can also just ask Brandon. I highly recommend you give it a read. My Issue with that scene is coupled with the difference with the prose version and the character of Aarik that I know from that version. What follows are spoilers of the far end of the prose version so read at your own risk. I'll just say that he immediatly drops it and fights unarmed in the prose version for good reason.

Well at least atium would make some sense. If Harmonium is equal parts Preservation and Ruin, then Sazed would need some way to keep his balance over time, since his Preservation half is weaker because it's more invested in Scadrial. Creating a ruin-metal could illeviate that somewhat.

Ok, so basically the answer to my question is: "Because Brandon said so.". Got it. Though it would be funny if he later introduced a small sect of Pathians that call the metal Sazedium out of principle.

I don't really know where it originated but I have often seen the potential metal of our favourite new shard be called Harmonium. At first that makes a lot of sense. The Shard is named Harmony, so the metal corresponding to that Shard should be named Harmonium. But if we look at the both other known God-Metals, it makes less sense. They are are not named Ruinum and Preservatium, but rather Lerasium and Atium after the names of their Shardholders Leras and Ati. Following that naming-scheme shouldn't a Harmony-Metal be named Sazedium or something like that rather than Harmonium?

That makes a lot of sense, I think you might be right. Not offense to you Calderis, but he just argued the point a lot better and more extensively. Though I still don't understand why you focussed on the Derethi-Religion so much. It would be a first for a magic system to be intrinsically linked to one specific man-made thing. Exspecially since the Religion was born after both shard were shattered.

I heavily doubt that the Derethi-Religion has anything to do with it. It could be that they have to truly be devoted to the derethi ideals, but what are those ideals. Obedience, Authority and Ambition. All things that sounds quite like Dominion. But I don't think they have to believe in those Ideals at all. The reason that they use monks is that is has to be a Self-Sacrifice. The subject has to willingly sacrifice themselves in order to make the access to the Dor work. And that sounds very much like Dominion. But we could discuss this forever because, while Dominion and Devotion are opposed intents, there is always some overlap between the shards. And you can always make the claim that someone completely dominated is merely devoted towards their master. For me the situation is like Theon and Bolton in Game of Thrones. When Theon is so broken by Boltons torture that he diligently shaves his master even though he could technically kill him in revenge, would you say he was devoted towards Bolton? I would say that he was being dominated by Bolton and that it's the same case with Dakhor-Monks.

Thats really just twisting words. In the same way I could say they aren't devoted but rather dominated by the religion. They are extremely obedient and willing to serve. There may be some of devotions intend in there but it is clearly, in my view, way more geared towards domination than devotion. I don't claim that all ways do access the Dor are purely inspired by the intent of one of the shards, but there is clearly more devotion in AonDor and more Dominion in Dakhor-Dor. Edit: Actually we don't really know how much devotion towards the Derethi-Religion is required for a months sacrifice to work. I personally doubt that the Derethi-Religion is this intrinsically linked towards the magic system. I rather think the point is more that the monks are obedient enough to sacrifice themselves for the access of the Dor in the first place that makes it work. We don't know enough about Dakhor-Dor to really tell anyway.

Yeah I know, but the significant differences in ways to access the Dor hints for me that, even though the dor itself is the combination of both shards, that the ways to use it are clearly influenced by the intent of the seperate shards. Just look at how brutal Dakhor-Dor is. Monks killing themselves to change the bodies and abilities of another sounds very dominating to me. AonDor can heal while Dakhor-Dor cannot. If AonDor is of devotion, that makes perfect sense, since healing isn't very dominating.

Well another possibility could be that it's about the land and the people. AonDor can only be performed by people with Aonish blood, and Dakhor-Dor can most likely only be performed by Fjordish people. Given that, it may be possible that the land the people descended from it are just naturally more attuned towards the two shards Some more towards Devotion, some more towards Dominion and some somewhere inbetween. Since Shu-Keseg came from a Jindo, maybe the Jindo people are more neutrally attuned in general. After the religion spread it could have naturally changed into the two seperations Shu-Derethi and Shu-Korath based on how attuned the people of those countries were towards the different shards. Fjordell are more attuned towards Dominion so they slowly changed and adapted the Shu-Keseg religion into Shu-Derethi, while Aonish people adapted it into Shu-Korath. This would explain how these two religions, that describe the two present shards so well, appeared even though the people most likely didn't know about the existence of said shards.

Are you talking about the one unfinished chapter with Eshonai and Gavilar. Or is there a newer version of that chapter around that I haven't seen yet? I have to say that I found that chapter quite odd, mainly because Gavilar seems so ... dumb. Eshonai is obviously horrified by what he tells her. She even straight up says so. But Gavilar just seems to ignores it saying: "Ah, yes. I knew you would be gratefull. Your quite welcome." Everyone always says about Gavilar how he was such a charismatic guy and how good he was at diplomacy and what we see of him shows him to be so horrible at diplomacy that he gets himself assassinated by his own guests. It clashes horribly with everything we ever heard about the guy. I can accept him being evil, but anyone with half a brain would have tried mask his real motives after seeing the first reactions of Eshonai. Not flound them about even more.

Maybe. The words of the merchant, like most dialogue in the graphic novel, is btw. a one-to-one copy from the prose. I just figured Ionsha means darksider since it made sense in the context. The merchant wouldn't say "rich" because he is currently trying to swindle Kenton into selling the jewelry for much less than their worth. I also like to think that the sexism is still there because I honestly think it would be unfortunate if it wasn't. Much of the story and characters in the prose is about the duality of the world. I actually made a larger post in it's own thread about this: What I didn't mention in the thread is that this duality also translates into the prelavent government forms found on both dayside and darkside.

Ah, my bad your right.

What? That WoB said that Shu-Keseg does NOT predate the Splintering, but you might have just missed the not in your sentence. We don't know all that much about Shu-Korath or Shu-Keseg other than their basic principles. Who's to say there isn't something similar to the Svrakiss in the Korathi teachings? Besides we also don't really know how the three religions came about, since they seem to have started after both Shards were allready splintered and they couldn't directly influence the creation of these religions. My personal guess is that it has most likely something to do with the splinters left behind, namely Seons and Skaze. And maybe the Skaze just have more reason to talk about the splintering, I don't know. We really don't know enough about this World yet to make truly educated guesses about how these religions came about and what the meanings behind the various teachings are. What I do know is that it would be unlike Brandon to put a prelavent thing like this into a worlds mythologie and not have it mean or represent something in the cosmere.

I second that Rlain was most likely fighting it, though I think it might be something else as well. As far as we know both Rlain and the Armies left the platue before the Storms hit via the Oathgate. Additionally we know that it generally doesn't happen instantly anyway. From Eshonai's transformation we can gather that the transformation only happens during the eye of the storm so to speak. I just pictured it in the way that the Everstorm just carries tons and tons of stormspren or other voidspren and that those spren are just more forcefull about transforming Listeners than the other spren they can bond with. I don't think being just near the everystorm would turn every Parshmen ever into a voidbringer.

Well the sexism of the Kerztian society seems to still be there in the graphic novel, it's just way harder to tell. Remember the scene where Kenton sells some of Khriss Jewelry to buy food from the Kerztian merchant? Spoilers obviously follow for the book. In the book just before the scene of the gn starts it's described how offended the merchant is that Khriss dares to sit next to Kenton even though she is just a woman. Which he also shows when she talks during the negotiation and Kenton tries to make her stop to not ruin the trade. The merchant then says to Kenton how those darksider-women arrogance is not worth the bother in his experience. This part is still in the graphic novel and felt out of place for me because he rest of the scenes showing the obvious sexism weren't there, so the comment lost it's context.

Yeah, but I felt like Rock, at least if not Theft too, allready did that. I certainly saw no "Hero-Worship" from Rocks side and he treated Kalading like any of the others. To me it felt like Moash was mostly described as a friend so that the other real friends of Kaladin didn't have to become betrayers.

I think they maybe something of odium. It's fairly obvious that Shu-Korath represents Devotion and Shu-Dereth Dominion, while the origin-Religion Shu-Keseg represents that both shards are currently, in a way, combined. The Svrakiss are described as the ancient enemy of Jaddeth (Dominion) and thus could be the reason why Dominion is in his current state. Some sort of tool Odium used to splinter Dominion and Devotion.

I would mostly change Kaladings storyline in WoR to make it more believable. 1. Make the friendship with Moash more believable. In the book we are told in Kaladin's chapters that Moash is his bestest of friends but Moash never felt like a true friend of Kaladins to me. He always felt more like he only supported Kaladin because it suited his own goals, not because he liked Kaladin. Theft and Rock always felt like much truer friends. They supported Kaladin before he started doing great things for Bridge Four and I just don't see the supposed "worship" that Kaladins think they are doing. This gives of the feeling that Moash "friendship" isn't in the book because it makes sense for the characters in the story, but rather so that Kaladins Arc could happen and he could be betrayed by someone who's supposedly important to him. 2. Give him a better reason not to immediatly imprison the traitors. It always felt dumb to me that he clearly made his mind up to have them arrested and then just doesn't bother to do it until his arc forces him to change his mind.

I long resisted reading the White Sand Graphic Novel as I am not a great fan of Graphic Novels. I have enjoyed a few but I prefer books and have allready read the prose version. Now after the Humble Bundle Sale I find myself in possession of the novel nonetheless, so I thought I might as well try it out. And it's worse than I expected. The visuals are just a mess. They look like the artist drew a few pictures than ended up looking cool and then decided to use that art-style for the whole comic. But, apart from a few scenes looking cool, the visuals don't add anything to the scenes. Very often the environment themselves are still descriped in rectangular boxes, because thats the way the book did it. Except that wouldn't be necessary if the visuals were good enough to show that on their own. Visuals in Graphic Novels should do at least as much talking as the words on the page do. If they don't then there's no real point to having them. 1. In the very beginning of the Mastrell's Path it is described how Sand Mastery Works. For example that the sands turns black after use. Except they could have made the visuals less useless and just showed us sand turning black after being used in a Ribbon. But instead Sand Mastery just looks flashy. It doesn't even look anything like Sand. It looks like Kenton is just shooting red light from his hand, while it should look like Sand moving rappidly to form those ribbons. 2. Sometimes they even contradict each other. The text clearly says, like it should, that the sand creatures can be dissolved with water, yet the visuals show the creature with a giant maw, which spews forth water. What? 3. That Khriss entrance. God! You know Khriss, the learned schollar, struggling with the weight of leadership on her first expedition. Makes sense that she would enter the tent like a diva in a fashion-show. 4. "Swords and I don't get along very well", says Aarik, while still holding the Sword during the fight in which he doesn't use the sword. What is this? I could probably find more but I skimmed through the later half of the book, because the text was pretty much identical to the book I read just recently.

Despite it's somewhat undercooked nature, I really, really enjoyed the prose version of White Sand. (Though not the graphic novel, eugh.) What I specificially really enjoyed about the book was the theme of duality that ran throughout the whole book and both it's world and characters. Most parts of both the world and the characters come in multiple separater parts that are often not only different but opposites from each other. One side of the planet is completely in dark, while the other side is completely in light all the time. Water sustains and powers the magic that uses sand as it's central component, yet it also disolves and kills even the most powerfull creatures that sustain themselves on said sand. And, most importantly, that duality also translates over to pretty much every single more important character in the book. Kenton is torn between his rebellious nature and his newfound responsibility. Khriss struggles from the difference between her scholarly, comfortable self and her need for leadership and adventure. Ais struggles between his own morality and the degrees of his religion. Eric wants to be free of responsibility and can't compromise it with the trained, dutifull person he was raised to be. Delious switches between the genius merchant and tactician and his drunk, useless persona for getting revenge. Gevin/Nilto switches from the noble-looking bastard to a horrible-looking responsible and caring person. Baon manages his loyalty to Scythe and his dutifull protection of Khriss. And all Characters get fairly different results. Both Kenton and Khriss grow from the experience and recognize that they can combine their opposite desires to become a stronger person. Eric gets it the worst. Mainly because in my opinion he doesn't accept that he can be both. He crushes his jovial and happy self in order to be responsible and before tried to supress his abilities and power in order to be carefree. He doesn't try to find a middle way. It's why he talks to himself. He firmly splits his personality into two beings, because he doesn't get that he could combine them into something that could work. I guess this is not some sort of deep analysis or anything, but I found it very fun to discover while reading how this duality represented itself in so many aspects of the book. Despite being unpolished, it's truly and great book in my opinion and I certainly hope that it someday gets the proper novel release it deserves.

Don't we allready know that Dalinars visions come from his Nahel Bond to the Stormfather? I mean you're sortof right, since his Nahel Bond most likely comes from his strive to be honorable and unite the alethi.