Pechvarry

I'm under the impression that you DO keep a fair amount of power once it has left you. It changes you. Look at Vin's power mid-ascension, destroying all of Kredik Shaw with ease. Note the similarity to TLR's power. I believe Sanderson said that much power rips troughs in your spirit web, warping your body but making it capable of holding more power. Kell lacks a body to warp, but he should be similarly changed in mind and soul.

I actually figured that one was feasibly related. >.> But then, that goes back to my whole "Ado is an Aon" and therefore "Aonic is based on pre-shattering language" and so on.

Well, neither of those issues really refute the theory. He's not a real shard, because that would require a body (literally) of power, as the mists are to Preservation. But he's more of a shard than an organization, and if you think about it, what would drive an organization of men to name themselves Shard? If the seventeenth shard has a sliver (with religious backing) calling the shots, this could make sense. And we certainly know nothing of The Recipient. But that just means we have a 300 year gap where we don't know what could have happened.

I did a brief search, but as simplistic as this theory seems, I didn't see it posted elsewhere. Kelsier is now a Sliver, but a completely different kind than TLR was. He has no physical aspect (unlike Sazed, for example), but possesses a deific Cognitive (further augmented by the existence of Survivorism) and Spiritual aspect. Is this very much different than Ruin-when-chained? With his expanded powers and a meddlesome personality, he would want to get involved with something. Not really much of anything to do on Scadrial, though. Sazed's got stuff under control. Time to explore Shadesmar, as pretty much the only thing he CAN do. So he gets involved with other planets. Now he needs a physical aspect. Being dead and all, he'll need someone else. An avatar. Someone who he trusts, and has absolute faith in him. I got it! Demoux! So you have a being like a shard, but not quite a shard. Let's call him, for argument's sake, The Seventeenth Shard. But unlike a true shard, he'd need a physical aspect. While other Shards use their body - their energy - this one uses men blessed with the power of other shards. This one uses proxies. This means Demoux isn't just a member of The Seventeenth Shard. He's the founding member. While the recipient of "The Letter" is most certainly not Kelsier, it could be an ally of his. The biggest issue is The Recipient insisting on non-intervention, which Kelsier is diametrically opposed to. But if Kell owed him big. Like, by being able to help him syphon off more of Adonalsium's power, maybe Kelsier would reciprocate by allowing The Recipient the use of his Seventeenth Sharders. This could help explain why Kelsier and Hoid don't get along. EDIT: if we have proof of SS' existence pre-HoA, then my theory adjusts to incorporate a body of Cognitive Aspects lingering in a similar manner to Kelsier. For example, the minds of now-dead, previous shard-holders.

I'm sure this is old territory for you guys, but doesn't this confirmation cast doubt on his using it as metalmind? I mean, he's protecting it like his skin. That indicates, to me, that he dies if he loses it, or loses it if he dies.

Yeah so... even if it's not an extremely tangible benefit. Still planning to leave Gold at 1.

As I've said before. Mental speed > atium. Let the atium burner tell you your future, as Vin showed was possible.

It's strange how, if I were twinborn, I'd choose a combo with really neat combat applications. But OP said just a misting or a ferring. And so I choose archivist.

Stopping in real quick - While I intend to plug this stuff back into an RPG at some point, I actually wanted genuine opinions from a fiction standpoint. I'm trying to avoid gameplay constructs - like the penalties for burning gold - while focusing on the objective (Lurchers can kill themselves quite accidentally). Re: Compounding column. If it would help, I could rename this "double-born" or something similar. For example, you could have a double-Tin character who never compounds -- he still has a power no one else possesses. I can't say "It's 0 points for double tin but only if you promise not to compound!" Btw, note that burning Feruchemic Tin would give a very large burst of only a single sense. This would be best done off-scene to store the incredible burst in new Tinminds. Compounding during a fight, for example, would take a ridiculous amount of skill to know how much of the attribute you were about to get, how much you'd actually want to expose yourself to, and how much you'd want to Store. EDIT: *Thank you for the input on Brass, Nepene, I upped the compound value by 2, for a total cost of 6. (Personally don't think Brandon ever intended this, but I'll keep my bias out of my list). *Adjusted Tin to 6 (for those keeping score, it has gone from an erroneous 7 to a 5 to a 6). *Upped Bronze by a point because of the sheer utility Phantom pointed out.

This sounds like you're thinking of the alloy of law ars arcanum, wherein the author is saying Scadrians access their power via their innate investiture, as opposed to the form-based methods one finds on Sel.

I would apologize for the slight necrosis but this is a slow enough forum that I don't even feel bad. I do not necessarily agree with this. It's possible that the tiny investiture in all humans throughout the Cosmere is something of a spark plug for sentience. Required to begin sentience, not maintain it. If you are right, feruchemists probably think Nicrosil allows you to Store Stupidity.

I messed with some Compounding numbers. In the instances where we're not sure what a power does, I'm shying towards "average-to-good." Fixed tin, upped Zinc. I'm thinking Pewter should maybe be 8 points total instead of 7, as should Zinc. Iron is currently 7, I'd consider going up to 8, but I don't think it's a miracle worker like most of the big compounders. The ability to have an extremely heavy tug doesn't help you against The Vanishers, for example. -Personally, I'd love to be able to burn Gold (I would love a chance to interview the Me of 10 years ago), and I think Miles was onto something when he used it as a way to "alloy" himself. This is at least as good as the ability to be a willful Manic Depressive (Feruchemic Electrum), so I still intend to leave it as a 1. -EVERY Compound ability should have at least a 1 point cost. My belief is that, even if you're not getting use out of your 1000% return-on-investment, the ability to sidestep a Feruchemic cost is still worth at least the 1 point.

Zinc/brass isn't mind control. If every Soother/Rioter were capable of dominating Koloss, this would be a 3. Looking at Vin, Tin saves her life far more than most metals, but I still think Pewter and Steel are "stronger". And I admit, I think combat monsters should be harder to make than master manipulators. A lot of my Compounding values are totally off. There's no way a Tin Compounder should be better rated than a Zinc Compounder (whose constant super-thinking is probably better than Atium, because they'd be able to pull the Vin "tell me my future" trick). Going through them currently. For now, I'm leaving Steel/Gold/Chromium as 9-point totals (these are each worth at least 3 Thugs in a fight), thinking Duralumin is good at 6 (worth 3 Soothers?), and I'm really having difficulty with Tin (see below). One thing that's been eating me about Compounding is that Wax thinks in AoL, something to the extent of "from what he understood, once you started compounding, it was dangerous to stop." This makes me think a Tin Compounder would end up with many of the drawbacks of Spook. He'd just have the added benefit of being able to store traits to offset those drawbacks. This also makes me think Zinc Compounding could perhaps result in serious brain damage.

But that requires a way to introduce atium back into the world. Creating a well or pits -- that's a lot more meddling than just juicing Marsh directly. And to be clear, I DO believe Marsh is Sazed's right hand man. Which is worth mist-juicing.

He didn't say the scholars and researchers were wrong...

It's, perhaps, folly on my part, but I intentionally turned a blind eye to synergies. The 3-point scale means each point covers a much larger spectrum, and it's my hope that all the different synergies end up in more or less the right spot. For example, a Soother would probably rather store Connection than Strength, but they're both 4-point twinborns. I'm ok with this for the same reason that a Cadmium Misting like Marasi is almost always better than a Gold misting, but they're both 1-point abilities.

Assumptions: Preservation can power allomancy directly (though Vin distinctly did not give Elend Atium-juice). Ruin can power Hemalurgic manifestations of the other 2 arts. Conclusion: Harmony can fuel anything that touches his mist, if he wills it. Such as for his right hand man. Marsh can definitely burn atium. If he also had an Atium Feruchemy spike, he could store age in it, and then stand in the mists (with Harmony's blessing), and burn fake-atium (fakium?) to Compound his age, storing the extra in his 2 Atium spikes as he goes. One misty night every few weeks takes years off ol' Ironeyes. What am I missing?

It's mentioned in either books or annotations that the Steel Inquisitors use such large spikes for the intimidation factor. Sorry that I don't remember which. I mean, I'm guessing size is a factor to a certain extent, but a pitcher holds a cup of Kool-Aid just as well as a glass does. I imagine a human's entire Investiture could fit in a reasonably small spike, with larger ones just having redundant space (the Pitcher). Meanwhile, really tiny ones (Marsh's Smoker spike, The Bronze earring) probably discard excess strength. Or.... even leave it behind (if the donor actually lived).

I guess the basic way to read my scale is: 1 point: This ability is incredibly weak and situational. At least you're not a gnat. 2 point: No one's ever going to be embarrassed to have this ability. Though it's not a show-stealer. It's pretty much always useful. 3 point: This is the ability other Metalborns wish they had. For Feruchemy I mostly focused on the benefit. For example, a simple Steel Ferring has an alarmingly high probability of being able to kill a full Mistborn. This means it should be considered a first class skill. If you could get the effect from burning a metal, my 3 point scale would break. Luckily, we have a Compounding column for that. Some random thoughts: I was originally inclined to put Fe-Iron as a 2, but it being beneficial when tapping or storing really seals it as a 3, for me. I should perhaps do the same for Fe-Duralumin, as stored/tapped Connection likely both have great uses. Fe-Zinc (Mental speed), I want to put as a 3 and say amazing top-notch ability, but then I remember Sazed tapping his mental speed while beaten. Watching in slow motion and completely incapable of saving himself. This is why I hesitate to make it too high of a Compounding Cost. My old go-to of comparing it to a Thug says he's way more valuable to the team, but is he more than twice as valuable as the Thug? Fe-Chromium (Fortune) would've been a 3, but I really think there's no good time to Store the attribute for later. So I put it at a 2, but gave it a sky-high Compound Cost. I honestly should consider upping it further. Not sure if 2 points is enough for Al-Duralumin in the instance the character can burn another metal, but not really important for this exercise.

Ehh, if anything, the copper wire could have undetectable allomancy (inheriting the effect, not the power), which wouldn't get noticed for obvious reasons. With electricity just discovered, it stands to reason they haven't stumbled across something amazing yet. On a related note: electromagnetism. The Well was at the magnetic north pole. When Rashek moved the well, it dragged magnetic north with it. This means it's pretty feasible that allomancy in general is somehow reactive to electromagnetism.

Not temporal, but the ability to see spirit web bind points would be fantastic.

I don't think I can assume that. I figure it not playing nice with his city suffix just convinced him to find another fitting name. For example, if Ado means God, he went from God-city to Focus-city. Both fit his needs. They needn't be synonyms.

Err.. yeah. So the point is, I think if we could figure out what "Ado" means in Aonic terms, it would give us a very large glimpse into the meaning of Adonalsium, given that we know his first Cosmere book was originally intended to use Adonis with zero Greek ties. Also, "Nalsi" makes me think of "Nalthis" but I think that's pushing it.

That was worth a rate up. Isn't this what Feruchemy is? It was around before Allomancy, and I'm pretty sure it predates Hemalurgy as well. As far as I can tell, Feruchemy was born from the interactions of 2 shards on a planet, with the other 2 systems being born out of the Shard conflict. Also, Cultivation and Honor were a couple? This is news to me.

To the original topic, allow me to give a completely different take: Annotation: Elantris Title Page Regrettably, I couldn't find "Ado" in the back of the book.