apepi

I think Kelsier is too connected(maybe invested?) to Preservation, which is why he is trying to get Stormlight offworld. If he could find a way to invest in stormlight, it could try to balance himself out and travel to different places, atleast Roshar.

This also might explain why the Ire don't live on a world anymore, and why the Iri world hop to a bunch of different places, because if they stay on one place for too long, it gets harder to worldhop.

I don't think that the crazy part might be related to the um, connectedness part really? The Heralds might be different(it might be the oathpact things) but the Fused/Return I feel somewhat go crazy because of the passage of time. We have heard about how shards mess with a vessel's...spiritweb(?). It kind of constantly grinds them, slowly until it is hard to fight back the intent of the shard. The crazyness cognitive shadows face is something similar to the same vein, but more the outside world ruins the cracks of their mind filled with investiture. It slowly grinds them, but unlike people who don't have investiture filling their spiritweb, Cognitive shadows have a hard time recovering from changes. It is why the Fused are insane, they have dealt with so much death/changes, the investiture originally holding them together is failing. I consider Spiritwebs like hard drives, and cognitive shadows can no defragment themselves.

I feel like maybe the heralds had the oathpact to maybe defrag their souls, but it got messed up so they can't do it anymore.

I feel like Edgli knew that this was a problem, so she threw in an ability for them have to die to be able to use, so they out of all the cognitve shadows, seem to go less crazy and have ways to die. I also think this is why in Halladren, the returned have to stay in the palace, if they leave, they might wither away from stress/etc(I do feel like this is somewhat a newish thing though? It might always have been like this).

I wonder if the shades are in the cognitive/physical realms like the unmade are. If Odium learned that is a better place to put shards, maybe he put some of Ambition's power there. Or this could have been him testing out how to do it.

I would argue, that is it somewhat possible, and we kind of have seen(or will) see it.

Like, we have seen Dalinar able to be able to make deals for the rest of Honor, because he holds the most Honor investiture. But like, With Navani becoming a Bondsmith she is also going to have a lot of Honor in her(although not as much as Dalinar).

So like it is possible for a shard to have two two large splinters of the same power and have them bonded to someone. Whether you count this as being a vessel well, idk, but it is kind of like an....acting vessel I guess.

I wonder if Tears of Edgli would count as solid investiture. Though I guess you could argue all life could be counted as solid investiture if invested.

6 minutes ago, CryoZenith said:

@apepi I feel like that doesn't work with this:

 

 

I mean maybe? But Adanolsium splintering is unlike the other splinterings that I think we have seen(with the dawnshards?), so that doesn't mean that much to me. Also the metal could have been like this before hand.

Isn't the problem not that he has too much Ruin, but Preservation has been invested too much into the humans?

Ive never really considered this a huge problem, I feel like if he really wanted to he could invest it, but maybe he is afraid that it will cause problems placing that Ruin into other places and the preservation in the humans won't equal it out.

I have been having a feeling that it used to be Aluminium, but then after Adanolsium was split, it caused his metal to be devoid of all investiture. This would explain why the metal is so wierd.

I think what is keeping Odium is different than keeping the Fused, my general theory:

Odium injured from the fight from Ambition, somehow ends at Roshar. He makes a deal with Cultivation/Honor to not kill him, in some agreement? And they let him have Braize, he royally storms Braize then influences Ashyn a little and their planet is messed up and the humans go to Roshar, with help with Honor?

Meanwhile the Singer's, who were aligned with Cult/Honor, see humans coming. They and humans fight, the Singer's feel threatened by the humans and feel betrayed by Honor and turn to Odium. Oathpact happens. 

I don't have a huge amount to say about it, this might be something that I might need to relisten to, I didn't absorb it that well.

7 hours ago, Frustration said:

Warbreaker is a different series.

Yes, but this is in the Cosmere Discussion and not Stormlight.

Ive always thought that Oathbringer was the most liked book in the series. RoW kind of the worst. Though ive heard a lot of people like warbreaker.

On 5/17/2021 at 11:56 PM, Oltux72 said:

The Fused are Surgebinders. We got it from Brandon. Hence also the red eyes. They are using an alien system: Surgebinding.

But Renarin is not corrupted. No red eyes. The simplest explanation is that he is using a Shard's genuine magic system, in this case Odium's, hence he is voidbindung in seeing the future.

1. We do have the chart
2. We know sentient Voidspren exist
3. We do know that Voidspren can become fabrials but are extremely reluctant to do so.

What else but becoming a Voidbinder should be the result of bonding a Voidspren?

Been thinking about this. Either world/location matter a lot for a shard's powerset, perhaps Odium's thing is to kind of taking another's shard's powerset, or he is just choosing not to use his own powerset.

I think I am leaning towards more the former currently. It would explain a lot of things for me.

I do wonder if you could suck the Identity out of a whole shard, could you like, unkey a whole shard? Take away it's investiture so it is just blank investiture? That would be real interesting way to 'kill' one.

On 1/5/2022 at 10:07 PM, Trusk'our said:

My favorite magic system? They're all good! But, if you insist...

Hemalurgy. Definitely Hemalurgy.

The many, many potential applications for Hemalurgy combined with the fact that despite it being extremely versatile, it's simple enough for me to understand, and it has enough of a rules set that you can't just say "well, I'm goanna cast a spell, and that will fix EVERYTHING...unless it's inconvenient for the plot, in which case, I won't do it. Could, but won't" (you can probably tell I'm not overly fond of Elantrians for this reason).

Not only that, it's a magic system for those who study and understand the mechanics of the magic (NO, I still don't like Elantrian magic), and could potentially be used by anyone with the right knowledge.

Plus, finding ways to work around the costs it brings (i.e. needing to kill someone to gain the powers, damaging the spiritweb of the recipient of the spikes, etc.) is an interesting challenge, and one that is achievable, I would think. 

I wonder how a world would look with just Hemalurgy.

3 hours ago, ShardlessVessel said:

Not a specific magic system, but rather mechanical magic systems in general; stuff like fabrials, ettmetal machines and unsealed metalminds.

It relates to two concepts that I really like: magic that anybody can use and magical technology.

I like imagining that if I were to somehow enter a fantasy world, I would be able to use the magic in that world, and I also really like both the function and aesthetics of machines and gadgets that run on magic.

I really think Roshar in the future is going to be more dependent on fabrials. I would like to see fabrial knights.

Mercy. You think Mercy would be a good thing, a good shard right? But supposedly, Mercy helped Odium kill Ambition. Makes me think of killing people so they can't feel any more pain. Makes me very afraid of it.

Makes me think, that Mercy might end up being one of the big threats in the cosmere, not Odium.

I made a few of these up a while ago, here you go:

Devotion+Dominion=Deference, is a D word and aligns with both of them.

Mercy+Odium=Retribution, deals with the offensive part of forgiveness. This one scares me.

Ruin+Valor=Defiance. You need to be brave to want to start anew/pull something down.

Autonomy+Endowment=Unconstrained

Ambition+Whimsy=Enthusiasm, this one is just fun.

Cultivation+Invention=Enlightenment

Honor+Preservation=Salvation

Whimsy+Odium =Mania

I made these a few months ago, so I am not sure I stand by all of them now.

Speaking of the light combinations...I find Towerlight very wierd. It seems like it's name was very...functional. Like It is called that because it works in a tower, not because the combinations together should equal the....meanings of a tower? If that makes any sense. When I think of a Tower, I always think of the Tower tarot card, which doesn't really fit a mix of Cultivation/Honor(atleast not Honor). I guess that if it doesn't fit, it means like...a symbol that is growing but...controlled? I would really like to ask Brandon about the particular naming of that Light. Because to me, Warlight makes sense, but Towerlight seems a little off.

Honorblades are actually made of his(honor) metal, unlike shardblades who would be made of both honor/cultivation.

But I am not sure that would count as being 'solid stormlight'. I imagine the metal is a lot more dense in investiture than the light.

Someone may prove me wrong, but the only solid investiture that we have seen/heard that is not metal, is Edli's Tears, though that might be more similar to gemstone perhaps than actual being investiture itself.

On 9/9/2021 at 2:35 PM, mathiau said:

Tanavast reportedly only changed when he was almost dead and Cultivation still loves him

I do think he could have been basically dead/dying, so she helped 'mercy' kill him, like she didn't want to see him struggle. Like killing off the dead part of a plant so it can regrow/grow stronger.

I do feel like Odium's weakness will be Karbranth. Something is going to end up happening to it, and he is going to fail at the deal that he made, which will cause him to end up hurting.

The one part of his magical system that I like is Savantism. I like the magical systems have consequences.

I do remember that a spike needs to be attached to a living thing(or close to it) to be able to stay functional. Though he talked about it being possible for people to somehow keep them intact without it.

I do wonder if Rasyium can only transfer over investiture, or can it do anything.

God Metals are the wierd thing, they are wierd.

I don't think Odium likes to use much of his investiture unlike other shards that we have seen before, he always seems to convert/corrupt other shard's investiture than actually use his own. Like the only use of his power alone has been what, his own metal? I am not sure we have seen anything that has not been spliced with another's investiture somehow.

On 12/28/2021 at 6:45 AM, Chinkoln said:

Brandon has confirmed that Odium has been weakened by his previous encounters with Shards. Between killing Ambition, Devotion, Dominon, and Honor, he isn’t strong enough anymore. He would need to have a preexisting upper hand before he could engage in another battle.

When he killed before, he did have an upper hand which allowed him to win, but not without cost. When fighting Ambition, Mercy was there to help him. He pitted Devotion and Dominion against each other, then stepped back and let them do it. With Honor however he just went straight in, and so even though the nature of his Shard let him win, he was
I feel like Honor somehow broke some deal, which caused him to die/be easily killed.very badly damaged and bound by Honor.

I feel like it wasn't just going straight in killing Honor, I feel like Honor broke a deal which caused him to be weak.

17 hours ago, Frustration said:

The Nodes?

Yeah those, I never remember names that well myself.

15 hours ago, Frustration said:

I think that radiants could use Stormlight from the start, we know Shards don't have total control over their magic.

The Sibling made their own light.

That is possible.

Them what is the point of the conduits at the tower then? Doesn't make sense to me.

I don't think that it was intended by Honor, not at first. I remember heralds drew their power straight from Honor, so they didn't need to use stormlight like they do now. And spren bonding people was more a surprise to Honor, so maybe either the storm was used for a different purpose than it is used now but were able to use it as a power source anyways because they were using the spren who had connection to Honor to give to the radiant or Honor changed it to help the radiants.

Remember the Urithiru? At the top, there was a place to allow stormlight to come in and 'charge' the tower, same with lifelight with the well(?). Honor intended people to use the investiture this way. Meanwhile Preservation did not(except very limited people who were given(?) that ability like Vin.), a shard has some power over how their power works, like Honor(and Cult?) kind of limited how surgebinding worked, because it was found it could chaos quite destruction. Maybe charging Urithu/ other cities was the main reason for the storm. We do know that Honor did change the stormfather right before he died.

I think if Preservation wanted everyone to draw from the mist, he could allow them, but chooses not to. We have seen him allowing it to people(well, a person), but doesn't want everyone to be able to. Originally the Mist was used to snap people. Now, if someone was smart, they probably could do it without their help, but that is something else.