Caevita

Yeah, I love this idea as a purely platonic thing because they are perfect together... as an older (idiot) brother/younger sister thing. Just as that though. And yes, I really do hope Kal gets a cognitive shadow for this. Other than that, though, I honestly just love the pairings Brandon has already set up. Shallan and Adolin are great (though they both have a great deal of growing up to do before they do anything other than strangle each other). Only problem is, Adolin feels about 80% doomed to me, just from a storytelling perspective. Well, either that or Renarin is gonna get some serious character development and then take the obligatory-emotional-death hit for his brother. But I digress.

It's an interesting theory, but remember, Lift got the ability to use food for Investiture because of her trip to the Nightwatcher. That said, it's a parallel that we probably still shouldn't discount just yet.

The only part I'm wondering about is the pressure build up. Do we have a WoB on that specifically, or could something else (say, a worldhopper coming over to Sel) have caused the quake?

Can you give me a quote to that effect? I must have missed that.

Yay. Does this mean I can destroy evil now?

You have no idea how often that happens to me.

"Because the Cognitive Realm has distinct locations, magic on Sel is very dependent on physical position. In addition, the rules of perception and intent are greatly manified on Sel, to the point that language directly shapes the magic as it is put to use." I know I shortened the quote, but that's got the important parts.

I... guess? Maybe? I don't really think so though, the people in Emperor's Soul have a completely different magic system from Elantris, who have a completely different magic system from the Shu-Dereth people.

That's what I'm saying, since all of Sel's magic is location-based, being an elantrian would be meaningless on any other planet, in any other country for that matter. Remember how much harder it was for the Elantrians to use their aons across the sea? That said, him trying to mess with the cognitive realm still makes sense, I think.

Huh. I had not considered Hoid as a potential cause of the chasm. I, uh. I don't know if that fits with what we know of Hoid or not. He's kind of an enigma. But remember, magic on Sel is very location-based, a byproduct of the two splinters' powers being stuck in the cognitive realm. Probably rules out the become-an-elantrian plan, but maybe he tried to hop into the cognitive realm? I seem to remember a quote about it being "inhospitable' or some such. That could easily have been Hoid.

An excellent point about the Seons, actually. But that leads us back to our first question... what, exactly, caused the chasm/Reod? Apparently not Odium.

Now, I had assumed (as I assume you assumed) that Elantris' Chasm was a result of Odium splintering Devotion and Dominion. And then Khriss dropped this line in "the Selish system:" "I am uncertain whether their (Devotion and Dominion's) power was left to ravage the world for a time... This all happened during the days of human prehistory on Sel." I'm confused. So yeah, thoughts? Is there a WoB on this that I am ignorant of?

Thank you! This explains it very well.

Apparently neither of us understand. Probably my fault one way or the other. I'm going to take my assumptions from the top, let me know which part I have backwards. The steel alphabet is a derivative of the the allomantic symbols for different metals. Related but separate is a set of feruchemical symbols. How can it be, then, that the steel alphabet represents all of allomancy, feruchemy, and hemalurgy in one? I had assumed that the seeming inconsistency could be accounted for by your previous comment about the designs for the symbols being artistically, not canonically designed. I said that bit about the Feruchemical table being a "lie" as more of a joke than anything. It would become meaningless, both by lore and practical application, if it is neither an alphabet of some kind nor a meaningful symbol.

Please explain. Are the designs meaningful or aren't they? I am confused.

Maybe just another product of the fact that the symbols aren't technically canon, then. The entire feruchemical set might just be one big lie.

Huh. Makes sense, but... Doesn't the feruchemical chart have its own, more triangular alphabet? Is that just the Terris language, or...?

Yeah, most likely. Still interesting, though. I'm trying to decide whether taking this as evidence for the alphabet as a whole being hemalurgy-influenced is reading too much into it.

Thanks! Also, oooh, they've got the spike there! Seems I'm not the only one who doesn't know what it means though.

Thanks for the clarification, guys! Black Yeti, that bit about the cover being part six wasn't there as of your earlier comment. Added it in an edit, as you will see at the very bottom of my post. Where'd you guys find that it was malatium? Also, Kredik Shaw. I knew I should have looked at the maps. I never give those the attention they deserve.

I was referring to the inside flap, where it says Mistborn: Secret History in big letters. Paper page, but just before part one begins. Sorry for the confusion.

Oooh, now this is fun. Having looked it up, Ettmetal is actually shown on the cover as well as part six. Thank you for that and the insight about Five. Any ideas for One or Two? It being an Aon explains a lot of the inconsistencies about Five, but it wouldn't make much sense to me if either of the earlier two were imported. Travelers had not yet arrived. Maybe One (or even Two) could have something to do with silver or lead? I know, I know, allomantically dead, but what if they were only that way because of Leras's obsession with the number 16? It's theoretically possible that they have started carrying their own properties now. Edit: re-looked up symbols, fixed my references. Edit-edit: re-re-looked up symbols.

I was a bit surprised I hadn't already found a thread talking about this, to be honest. If it exists, please let me know. With that out of the way, Mistborn: Secret History has allomantic symbols at the beginning of every "part," as well as every chapter. Except it doesn't. The ones on the chapter heads are what you would expect, symbols tied to one of the sixteen metals on our mystical pie chart of allomancy. The parts are a little different, though. Two of them (parts 3 and 4) are attached to Lerasium and Atium, respectively. The other four (cover/6, 1, 2, and 5) are completely unknown to me. So let's talk about those, shall we? [Cover/6+1]I don't have a whole lot to say about the symbols on the inside cover and also part six or part one of SH, except to say that they're both unusually shaped, as allomantic symbols go. The cover/6 has two lines not pierced by a spike, and One has a spike not attatched to a line, as well as five spikes in total. All three attributes are seen on only one other symbol (Lerasium has an unconnected line, duralumin five spikes, and Copper an unconnected spike). I've assumed for a while that the spikes and lines are a hemalurgic map in one way or another, but I can't remember if there's a WoB on that. I can't make head or tail of these two, though I'm fairly certain they're important somehow. [2]Moving on, Two has easily the strangest design of the set, so much so it looks like something else entirely. 3 lines, stacked on top of each other evenly, and as many as sixteen spikes. I say "as many as" because, unlike most allomantic symbols, the majority of the "heads" of the spikes are not in view. Only six could be considered visible, and they all come to the same point, so it's still difficult to tell... there could be a dot in the middle for all I know. Considering this part is named Well, this could simply be a symbol of the Well itself. The sixteen spikes, then, could be a representation of allomancy itself. We could even claim, since all of the spikes face the center, but many touch only the outermost circle, that the three lines represent the three planes of existence. The ones reaching toward the center, therefore, would be the metals whose application reaches beyond the mere physical. This may be reading too much into it, but I'll still wager that the existence of exactly sixteen spikes is intentional. [5]And that brings us to number five. Five features a single spike, two lines, and four dots. Another oddity- all 18 known allomantic symbols (16 plus Atium and Lerasium) have exactly one dot, no more, no less. This applies to the cover/6 and One as well, though Two is still difficult to tell. If we go back to my assumption that these symbols are hemalurgic maps of some kind, I had assumed that the dot represented the head, the lines some part of the human body. This new symbol is a bit perplexing to me after that. Also strange, every line has been a fragment of a circle. Usually about 3/4ths of it, though there were exceptions. The lines in Five seem to be to an oval, much thinner on the axis the spike is placed through, and much longer on the perpendicular. I... really can't make head nor tail of this one. I've wondered if Five is tied to Autonomy, one way or another (taking Autonomy's presence, though never directly confirmed in AU, as a given in Scadrial), but it's a bit of a stretch. Autonomy makes no overt moves in SH at all, in part 5 or elsewhere, unlike parts 3 and 4 which very much starred Ati and Leras. The other possibility is, of course, that it's the theoretical hemalurgic map that would let Kell return to the physical plane. TL;DR: No clue about cover/6 and 1st part symbols, 2 might be symbol of the Well or allomancy itself, 3 is Atium, 4 is Lerasium, 5 might be Autonomy's metal or Kell's unique, completely unproven hemalurgy, or somthing else entirely. I think that's about all. That one really got long on me. Anyway, thoughts? Am I reading too much into it? Do you have your own theories to share? EDIT: added tl;dr EDIT EDIT: added part six (same as cover (inside flap)) Also, just remembered the epilogue has nothing but a single spike for an allomantic sybmol... seems ominous. LAST EDIT I PROMISE: Apparently it goes like this: 1. Malatium (makes sense, given context) 2. Kredik Shaw (makes sense) 3. Atium (makes sense) 4. Lerasium (makes sense) 5. Steel Alphabetized Aon Ire (makes sense, and super cool) 6. Ettmetal (makes sense) Epilogue: Hemalurgy foreshadowing I guess? Thanks to Eki, WeiryWriter, and The One Who Connects for the info!

Well, I don't know whether you're the only one but I do know that at least one person does not think that. (Nah that actually sounds hilarious. Very... Mizzy).

This is really just gonna be what it says on the tin. I spout nonsense, you either shoot me down, spout your own nonsense, or both. Or, heck, maybe I'll even get one of these right. 1. David is an assumer. Specifically, he takes on the powers of those he kills (or those who die near him? Not sure of the specific mechanics) and his power set as we know it now, while impressive, is something like one tenth what it could be/is. Main evidence: I still don't really understand how Steelheart's powers are "thematically appropriate" for David. I mean, I realize Steelheart was the obsession of his adolescence, but I would have bet good money, coming into Calamity, that his power was going to work specifically against other epics-- something a lot like Wiper's powers, actually. It didn't happen exactly how I'd envisioned it (when does it?) but it still feels like his powers should have more epic interactions. Main problems: Steelheart died before David became an epic (or before his phobia of water started, since the exact time he became an epic is unclear). This could be worked around (say, something about carrying that metal skull around triggered his assuming), but it is still probably enough to kill this one. Gonna pretend it isn't though! 2. The pain caused by a motivator is, if not gone, much more manageable following the exit of Calamity Main evidence: Well, this one is just one of those things that feel like they "should" be so. The pain made a lot of sense in a dystopian mess like what the Reckoners lived in, but it's a little out of place in something more like Invocation's world. Specifically, the pain feels like an extension of the innate Epic selfishness. Twins having to ignore their powers completely to protect one another would just be frustrating for all parties involved. Main problems: No evidence. 3. Mizzy's powers turn her into a... I don't actually remember her exact quote but she's a martial artist/ninja thing, something along those lines. Main evidence: it'd be hilarious. Main problems: no evidence. 4. Invocation's world has no repeats when it comes to the main Reckoner crew. I'm not even going to separate arguments for and against. This is easily my least well-founded theory to date, and it only makes sense once you consider what horrors would be wrought on a world with two Codys in it come crossover days. All joking aside, I really do wonder-- David is alive in one, Blain is alive in one, ditto Tia, Prof, Tavi, and technically Megan/Firefight. That leaves Cody, Abraham, and Mizzy vs. Val, Exel, and Sam. Cody/Abraham and Val/Exel/Sam were the ones from different cells, so it's semi-plausible that one set lived and the other died. Also Mizzy is an epic now, which raises the chance she would have been mentioned, had she still been around. 5. Related to #4 (in a way), Obliteration is a dimension-jumper. Main evidence: 1- he recognized David and Megan at the party (even though they were wearing faces from another dimension) and 2- this way, he maintains relevance after things go multi-verse. Main problems: he didn't seem to have a motivator when he was fighting the Reckoners in Invocation-verse. Well, I think that's about it. As I said at the top, feedback and additional theories would be very welcome. (especially if someone could give me the exact Mizzy quote, can't remember it for the life of me).