Lupis

Do we actually know for sure what the intent of the Set's experiments were? Were they actively trying to create Atium and Lerassium, or were they trying to create a weapon? We do know Wax was intent on separating both metals.

I know they were trying to create mistborn, so it seems likely they were trying to recreate Lerassium and the bomb was the second prize, but I can't actually remember if in the book that was ever stated outright, rather than them trying to create a WoMD right off the bat. I definitely may just have missed, or forgotten, it being stated outright though.

I didn't love it, nor did I hate it. It was ok. The main points of revelation, Chet, the Delvers, and the reality icon were made so deliberately obvious, long long before the actual reveals, that there was nothing shocking, or even surprising, in the book, which is very un Brandon like. I also didn't like the story, again, focussing purely on one character. It gets a bit tedious.

That's his last couple of books that haven't blown me away. Fingers crossed The Lost Metal brings things back on track.

On 28/02/2021 at 1:49 AM, Flyingbooks said:

I know! The strangest part is that this was actually some subtle foreshadowiing for SA5, where they all get eaten by Nightblood and discover a parallel dimension inside.

I actually rolled my eyes when reading that part, it seemed like such a lazy and blatant Dragnipur rip off from Brandon, even down to the echoes of chains rattling that made no sense here and was never explained...

55 minutes ago, Doonl said:

It is certainly possible, but it just seems like we have to many examples of Cognitive shadows worldhopping, to the point that it might even be easier for them, as evidenced by the Eeyrie being worried about Therenodite shades, which I doubt anyone is helping to move around, and who don't seem intelligent enough to do it themselves. 

As for the gemstone, I doubt it if only because the Ghostbloods want Shallan to do exactly that to Kalak, and they are looking for a way to allow Kelsier to worldhop, so if that was a way to do it, they would have just done it by now.

Do it to Kalak as a test perhaps? They did say it was something similar to what the heralds are suffering from. I'm going from memory here so I may be off.

1 hour ago, Doonl said:

I am not sure about whether Scadrians are more connected, but even if they are, we have seen other Scadrians worldhop, (Demoux in WoK). Kelsiers problem seems to be specific to him, whether that be because of his time in the well, his status as a cognitive shadow, his time holding Preservations power, or some combination of them all.

Sorry I probably didn't make it particularly clear, I didn't mean the extra connection to Scadrial was the issue per se but that in combination with him being a cognitive shadow was. Maybe he is somehow still tied to the well though.

A thought has just occurred to me, although it has probably been asked and answered somewhere already. I wonder if he could be trapped in a gem, transported off world (very quickly before he dissipates!) then released?

Dr. Becky on youtube is worth checking out for anyone with an interest in the topic. Unusually for these type of things she is an actual PhD in the subject area, doing research on super massive black holes.

Edit I should say her videos are pretty varied about astronomy, astrophysics and cosmology. It's not all black holes!

I can't see it having any affect on Nightblood at all. Had it been the shard itself maybe, but a shardholder? I don't see it.

I think people are forgetting how hard food is to grow on Roshar. There is a very real chance by the end of the fighting both sides would be starving and need to concentrate on just survival. Without the use of soulcasters they would need to farm and hunt/gather, so before the radiants they just wouldn't be able to prosecute a genocidal war into hostile territory, and with the Radiants they would likely not be party to supplying food for an army intent on genocide.

That's my take on it.

I still can't get my head around where they found enough spikes to be able to create enough new Kandra to impersonate everyone on Roshar and fool Odium. Although they should have thought that through more as, although it wasn't stated outright, surely the Kandra had to absorb their bodies first? I wish Brandon had explained that more clearly as that entire section just felt tacked on and lazy.

On 04/01/2021 at 4:26 PM, Stonerward said:

So I've been coming up with a bit of a theory about BAM, it's not fully fleshed out yet but can't see any other threads so thought I'd leave it here. 

I believe that before being unmade BAM was the spren of Rhythms for Roshar, she was an older higher spren of Adonalsium existing before Honor & Cultivation arrived on Roshar so she wasn't of either of them but was the same level of spren that the Stormfather / Nightwatcher / Sibling became (can't remember if the Stormfather was around prior to Honor / Cultivation arriving or not)

Once the singers betrayed the radiant spren / went to Odium / Humans went to Honor (whatever that whole situation was) I feel that BAM would have voluntarily gone to Odium to be unmade and follow the singers to Odium as humans can't hear the Rhythms of Roshar she would have felt a closer association with the Singers rather than humans who can't hear the rhythms. 

My theory includes that each spren has their own specific Rhythm which is backed up by the singers being able to be assume their different forms, that changing forms includes a need for the specific spren & also the singer to hold that Rhythm when trying to assume a new form and the intent to assume a new form.

This is how she has been connected to spren & singers, so when she was imprisoned this severed the full connection between the singers and their ability to hear the rhythm's / assume different forms and in the process has severed sprens ability to reconnect to the Rhythms of Roshar which I think would have previously let them fade from the physical realm and reform in Shadesmar but as the connection that BAM has been severed all the deadeyes are stuck between fully leaving the physical realm to be able reconstitute in Shadesmar

I was also pondering whether BAM was a spren (or something similar) predating honor and cultivation, which would probably have to mean they were a spren of Adonalsium, that was subsequently unmade by Odium. It would make more sense as to why shutting them away had such an impact on everything, as it had always been a part of Roshar

I had also been wondering about something else. We know BAM can create void light, if they did predate Odium, and were of Adonalsium, could they, potentially at least, create lights of other shards as well? Is that why the Ghostbloods are so interested in it?

9 hours ago, Melson said:

I just finished! And then read through the forums for about 3 hours combing for what I messed. Loved it! Not as much as OB but perhaps a little more than WoR.

my reaction in three parts, all have spoilers. Firstly my thoughts on a bunch of it, then my questions (please help me...) and then a big list of all the reveals I think there are. 

1. All my thoughts:

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Overall thoughts:

• I'd love a cosmere: what if? Graphic novel series, exploring Dalinar as odium's champion and shallan as an unhinged assassin, and even elhokar as a radiant king in alethkar
• Still feels a little bit like every main character is becoming radiant
• I really wasn't invested (no pun intended) in the Venli/Eshonai arc
• If Moash gets redeemed I'll be annoyed but happy but annoyed but happy
• Gosh parts 2-4 were slow, fabrial mechanics are a bit dull to read for me, like the advances of tech in mistborn - but blimey parts 1 & 5 are AMAZING!!!
• I need a list of worldhoppers I can refer to - if ever a series needed footnotes!! I love that Dalinar mentions these, it'd be so helpful. 
• Cultivation is definitely not a goodie - she seems distantly manipulative and quite seriously powerful. I suspect there's a bigger game she's playing. 
• WE CHOSE is up there with I AM UNITY
• 10 days....
• El sounds like an interesting character
• Surprised we didn't learn more oaths in this book, the only reveal was kal's 4th ideal 
• Hmmm... Jasnah and Wit... hmmmm...
• Taravangian, Dalinar and Shallan are the best characters in this book for me. Maybe Dabbid as well, and Rlain, and maybe Navani... no... but yes...

2. My questions...

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Questions I have, or bits I'm confused about since reading the forums...

• Who is Felt?
• Axindweth (from Kelsier) shows up with Gavilar...?
• What was the secret of the recreance?
• There are 2 more shards whose names we don't know right? What are the aethers?
• Does shardplate being made of non-nahel spren have any implication for recreance era shardplate?
• Is there a cold going round? Not sure I saw all these references

3. All the reveals I found

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All the reveals I captured...

 

• Kaladin swears forth ideal, that there are some he can't protect, learns Tien went willingly to battle to help others be brave. Shard plate is made of related lesser-spren (windscreen for wind runners). In speaking the ideal he leaves behind lots of baggage and the shash brands heal. 
• Shallan killed her mother with a shard blade, from a soreness she had previously bonded but is now a deadeye. She also strangled her father. Revealing all of this causes the Veil persona to leave.
• Shallan killed Ialai at the start of the book, or rather Radiant did it for her, with poison. 
• Mraize has a communication box powered by an Aon, now on Shallan's possession.
• The Ghostbloods are hunting the gemstone containing Bo Ado Mishram. 
• Thaidakar, head of the ghost bloods, is called the lord of thorns and is a cognisant shade living on another world - almost confirming he is Kelsier. 
• An Aviar shows up (red chicken), Mraize tries to kill it, Lift saves it and is now carrying it around
• Restares is Kalak
• Navani bonds the Sibling, becoming a bond smith and making Urithiru work. 
• Navani discovers lots:
  • sibling light, made of storm light and life light
  • Anti void light, made by inverting void light - this can kill fused and spren - Raboniel ensures both sides get the power to perma-kill
  • All lights have respective tones, inverting these tones causes the gods to back away from them
  • Vibration greatly aids filling/draining storm light from spheres (previously known by Thaylens)
  • Gemstones can be paired and then act like opposite magnets, she uses this to make flying machines 
• Taravangian manipulates Szeth into using Nightblood to kill Rayse, then takes up the shard of Odium for himself. Cultivation had assisted this, believing that Taravangian is clever enough to keep the shard in check. 
• Szeth discovers Ishar is Shin and has recovered his honorblade, which had been held by his father (Noturo?) - he then leaves to go to Shinovar, kaladin goes with him in an attempt to redeem Ishar. 
• Ishar is mad, but uses his bondsmith powers to rewrite spiritwebs, amending connection. When he opens his perpendicularity he loses his madness
• Ishar was attempting to bring spren into the physical realm, he manages to keep an honourspren there for c. 15 mins before it dies. He has also been dissecting the bodies of a cultivationspren and a cryptic. 
• Adolin travels to Lasting Integrity and agrees to stand trial to prove that modern men cannot be blamed for the sins of the recreance. During his trial Maya regain the ability to speak and announces that the spren chose the recreance too, they were not forced.  
• Kalak oversees the trial - though his is quite mad. He confirms the daggers can capture heralds briefly but then they fade as they lose connection. 
• Honour is not dead, he lives in the hearts of his children... navani is able to sing his song/tone after she becomes radiant
• Moash kills Teft and becomes blind. 
• Dabbid can talk but doesn't as he worries it will reveal his is not clever due to being strangled as a child - he reveals this and starts talk part way through the book
• The listeners survived, protected by greatshells, Venli finds them at the end of the book, with several other singers who disobeyed Odium and they start to bond spren 
• Rlain bonds a corrupted spren, after Renarin suggests it to Sja Anat - who appears to working against Odium
• Lift powers her surges by Lifelight, cultivation's light, which she converts from food
• Wit/Hoid has his name revealed to be Cephandrius. Odium/Taravangian disrupts the breaths he had been using to store memories (why not a copper mind...?) and, likely among other things, wipes the knowledge of what happened in their meeting at the end of the book. 
• Cultivation's name is Koravellium, and she might be a dragon...
• Dalinar can give people visions to help forge connection
•  
• Shard Names we know:
• Cultivation
• Odium
• Honour
• Ruin (now Harmony)
• Preservation (now Harmony)
• Invention (new)
• Valour (new)
• Whimsy (new)
• Mercy (new)
• Ambition
• Autonomy
• Endowment
• Devotion
• Dominion

And.... breathe....

Why not a coppermind? Some minor mistborn spoilers below.

12 minutes ago, GroundPetrel said:

Stuff I really liked: 

1. The Pursuer is exactly the kind of physically powerful but Stupid Evil villain needed to show the good guys having to be smart to win while physically outmatched.  I actually really liked what a total failure elemental he was.   

I wasn't a fan of the Pursuer to be honest, and by the end of the book I was just thinking how on Roshar did he manage to kill any radiants that had sworn enough ideals to have their plate? Unless, of course, he was so inept he kept getting killed by novice radiants/squires/non radiants I guess, then going after those and ambushing them while they were in the privy just to enhance his reputation.

And on a similar note, the fused in general don't feel like they could have been much of a threat to the Radiants back in the day, considering how well the novice radiants and squires now have been dealing with them without access to any shardplate. Yes, I realise they could have avoided Radiants and just attacked the normal soldiers, where they would cause havoc, but Brandon seems to have been building them up as a threat to the Radiants themselves, and I'm just not seeing that.

14 minutes ago, robardin said:

It's easier to write than to edit... I agree the Shadesmar Expedition felt off-paced, that the Formless bit was a bit melodramatic, and that Kaladin Fight Scenes start to blend into each other a bit.

But, I would rebut that we did need to see

1) Kaladin v. Leshwi, with a sense of them already having a history of mutual dueling respect

2) Kaladin v. Lezian, because it's a climactic type thing, and of course Lezian's M.O. would have him go after Kaladin, with unfortunate results (for him)

3) Kaladin nearly falling to Odium (the red/yellow eyes bit when he goes HAM) ... which Moash predicted might happen if Lezian messed with him before he fully fell, so that is really on the Pursuer

4) Kaladin going nutso in that state is probably supposed to indicate something about what the red/yellow eyes thing was about...

5) ...except for the recurring exhibition of unusual (beyond Stormlight) speed from Kaladin, which we have RAFO WoBs about, so it's not just "oh, how can I build up Kaladin even further as Super Duper Man", it's actually a planned element of his character.

...Well, clearly planned to be Super Duper Man. But still, it's not Sanderson being forced to constantly one-up his own history with Kaladin to continue to make him seem awesome to the reader.

(And no, much as I enjoy his fiction, I don't mean to put Sanderson on a pedestal with W. A. Mozart in the Western Canon... But "too many words", or "too many notes", is just such an easy thing to say!)

I suspect you may have missed the point of my post, which was really just to alert the person I quoted as to what I believe was a mistake in what they actually said, compared to what I believe they intended to say. Which I'd guess was "pages" instead of "words", or 300-400 thousand words, as opposed to just 300-400 words.

20 minutes ago, Vissy said:

I am once more brought out of a long hiatus of these forums by a new book in the series.

As with most of the recent Stormlight books - it just felt like there was way. too. much. text. I can't help but feel as if this book could have been three hundred or four hundred words and been so much more satisfying of a read. I'm also, naturally, frustrated by how straight the book is. 

And occasionally, some of the more ham-fisted descriptions had me rolling my eyes. Sanderson has a habit of making the subtext text quite often.

However, I was very excited by the Thaidakar = probably Kelsier reveal, and I hope to hear more of that soon. 

In overall terms, the first half of the book was bearable in pacing, and my wish of "oh please let the tower get captured at the midpoint" was fulfilled. Though it could have been done even earlier, in my opinion. As has become a thing, the Shadesmar section dragged out terribly, and I found the Formless/Shallan thing a bit melodramatic. The dragged out fight scenes also bothered me a little - especially in Kaladin's case. He is much more enjoyable as a character when you are not constantly shown just how incredible he is in combat (Moash basically hyping him up every chance he gets doesn't help), in my opinion, and actually shown to just interact. Stormlight Archives is a victim of its own size here, because the main cast is enjoyable, but split apart like this, and with so many viewpoints spread out, I can't help but feel as if I'd rather just have them close by.

What happened to Hoid, or Wit, is interesting. Some sort of limbo? 

While I agree the book was too long, I don't think he really could have told the story in "three hundred or four hundred words" to be honest...

On 13/12/2020 at 10:05 PM, ScarecrowBoat716 said:

I'm probably way overthinking this but did we ever find out why Shallan felt her "mother's soul" in her father's safe? I know the Testament-blade was locked in there, but that shouldn't be her mother's soul that she feels. Unless I'm missing something.

That scene makes me think of the gemstone knife that you can use to trap Heralds' souls. So I had the crazy thought that Shallan's mother was a Herald and somehow she actually trapped her mother's soul. Her mother being a Herald would explain why the cryptics are willing to bond her twice.

It's a WoB (well, technically a Word of Peter) that Chanaranach has been seen onscreen in the first two books:

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/310/#e9123

We also don't know anything about the location of Vedel.

So that's two female Heralds, one of which we know has been seen in the books, with their locations unaccounted for.

The one thing that gives me pause is I would assume her soul would eventually evaporate like Jezrien's did, and then Kelek should know that another Herald has entered the Beyond. But I wanted to throw this theory out there to get the community's thoughts.

I'm well prepared to be totally shot down if I'm forgetting some detail that disproves this...

Now I can't double check this as my stupid pc kindle app is refusing to load, and I don't have the patience to try and find the relevant section in my physical copy at the moment, but as far as I can remember fom my reading of it it was just the blade she saw in the safe (even though it wasn't there) and equated that with her mother's soul. That's what, to most people there, shard blades seem to do, burn out souls, so it would have, in her young mind, been in there along with the sword that did it. But admittedly I am not certain I am remembering it correctly as it has been a while.

So I don't think her mother was a herald, but I have been wrong before!

13 hours ago, Doonl said:

Here is the explanation for why I think that Kel's connection to Preservation is not the specific problem that the Ghostbloods are dealing with. I would think that any investiture has a similar problem, for example stormlight is inherently connected to Honor, hence the difficulty in transporting it. However, the GB have stated that they have cleared that barrier. While its possible that Kel's connection from being in the well is a little different, I dont think it is difficult enough, especially given the relative ease with which returned seem to travel. Even if it is easier for them thanks to the nature of Endowment, I wouldnt think that would remove the barrier entirely. By contrast, we have never seen a character who held the (close to) full power of a shard and then gave that up. We know that holding such power has a lasting effect even after giving it up because (Dawnshard spoilers)

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Brandon said Hoid was once a Dawnshard and that is why he cant hurt people

Obviously I could be wrong since we still dont fully understand the Mechanics at play, but it just seems like Kel's origional connection to Preservation is not a large enough tie, or different enough from what we have seen transported before, to be such a barrier to the GB. 

As a slight tangent, it is also important to note that the reason for Kel's problems could be something we are completely unaware of, since who knows what he spend the 300ish years between Era 1 and Stormlight doing other than joining the GBs

Admittedly I haven't thought too much about this, but aren't Scadrians more closely connected to their world because they, and the world, were created by Preservation and Ruin, and contain a bit of preservation, where most humans elsewhere were created by Adonalsium? I always assumed that, and being a cognitive shadow, was what was anchoring Kel there.

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Rōnin said:

When you get some new pins and think they are the most beautiful pins you own. (I have quite the collection (including a suit of armor pin), so this is worth noting. The Sanderson pins beat the suit of armor.)

  Hide contents

Note- I have somewhat small hands. I'm about as tall as Shallan, so...

I was really impressed by how awesome they looked. A little pricey, but completely worth it. They are super nice for being so small (which I also really like).

Did I mention how awesome they look?

(I am afraid to lose them, though...)

 

When you compare your height to that of Shallan.

Those are nice!

And Shallan is of average cosmere height. It's just those Alethi that are freakishly tall...

3 hours ago, Penhito said:

I never meant to say that he would stop writing in response to criticism but rather a purely hypothetical scenario where he stops writing (for whatever reason, like a mental breakdown - à la Rothfuss). Or if it started taking him 10+ years to release a single book...

All I'm saying is that how much and how well he writes (as a whole), and especially how reliable he's been for the past 15 years, shouldn't be a reason to pull your punches, but at the very least not try to go for the knockout each time...

Keep in mind that I'm addressing the fans that generally agree that RoW was a very good book (despite its flaws). If you truly hated the book (not you specifically), or have mostly a negative opinion of it, then of course you're entitled to said opinion

I didn't love this book, nor did I hate it. It was a 2.5 -3.0 out of 5 for me, which is probably the lowest score I would give any BS book I have read. My major fear is he has set himself a far too ambitious target with the different series and trying to tie them all together and is struggling to stay on point, and for me it is affecting the quality of his story (I almost said writing but that isn't fair). I don't blame him for trying to stick with the grand scope of it as it is something unique. And if he continues to enjoy writing it and others continue enjoying reading it that's great, but I can honestly see him burning out if he tries to keep going with all the things he has said he was going to do.

We saw a similar thing happening with Robert Jordan where the quality of the story telling got consistantly worse as the books progressed, due to trying to do too much.

At this stage I am invested (pun intended) in the cosmere books, so I will be sticking with them, but I do think people should be pointing out if they think the quality is dropping, for his good as much as anything else, if it makes him reconsider how much he has on his plate and what is actually achievable.

2 minutes ago, Doonl said:

So what we seem to have decided, mostly through process of elimination, is that the reason for Thaidakar and the Heralds inability to leave their planets is their direct connection to a shard which has invested into that planet. However, I still feel like that can't be the whole story. For one thing, it raises the question of how connected to a shard you have to be to have this difficulty. I mean spren are literally pieces of the power of shards. I would think that you cant get much more connected to a shard than that. Of course the Heralds and Thaidakar have different ways in which they are connected, but all that does is raise more questions as to what the difference is functionally. 

Also, I think Kelsier and Kalak might actually have different problems. I dont think that Kelsier is unable to leave because he was within Preservation's perpendicularity, but only because he held the power of preservation. The reason that I think this might be the case is because Todium seems to have no doubt in their ability to get Dalinar off of Roshar, despite Dalinar not only being bonded to the Stormfather, but also regularly summoning and standing within Honors perpendicularity, which I would think would have a similar effect as what happened to Kelsier. For Kalak, I think that once again there is a possible alternative reason than his connection with Honor. It is possible that the Oathpact itself is stopping him, since if Odium cant leave the system, maybe no one involved in the Oathpact can.

Yeah, I've been of the opinion that whatever is left of the oathpact that is holding Odium in system affects everyone involved in the oathpact. At least until I see anything that is contrary to that anyway.

Well a lot of it will be down to knowledge and experience. The Heralds know the full capabilities of the honorblades, they also have many many years experience with them and how to best use them. Then there is the fact that they don't have a spren bond that can act counter to the users wishes, if they don't agree to what they are intending to do with the powers.

I don't think it's as simple as either are superior or inferior, they are just different and have different strengths and weaknesses, with some crossover abilities.

3 hours ago, Ookla the Rōnin said:

When you call your parrot a chicken. (His actual name is Kaladin, by the way, but I'm sure most of you know that already. )

Surely it is when you refer to all birds as chickens.

1 hour ago, Arch1tect said:

On a tangent, are Kelsier and Hoid the only currently living Mistborn in the Cosmere? 

Probably, although I'm not convinced Spook isn't still kicking around somewhere. It also depends on your definition of living...

I am on the side of it definitely is Kel. Even the name "Ghostbloods" screams cognitive shadows+hemalurgy to me.

So many possible loopholes. The wording says they have to send a champion on the 10th hour of the 10th day to Urithiru, however it doesn't actually specify they have to meet then. One of them could take the long road.

Also, as this is the cosmere, what does "to the death" even mean? They didn't clarify.

If I were Dalinar I'd be seriously considering naming Nightblood as my champion, asking if it wanted to destroy some evil, and chucking it into the dueling arena for Odium's champion to deal with...

On 08/12/2020 at 10:57 PM, Ookla the Knight said:

I’m not talking at all about the reason Lift or Kaladin are conscious; only that the Surges of Progression and Adhesion were the only Surges able to be used during the Great Suppression and it is likely because they are of Cultivation and Honor respectively.

With how you were stating things it seemed you were denying the possibility that the Surge of Progression was of Cultivation as OP suggests.

We don't know that they are the only surges able to be used, just that they were the only ones that were used, Perhaps if other radiants had been far enough along in their ideals to have remained awake they would all have been able to use one of their abilities as well. We just don't have enough information to say it was only progression and cohesion that could have been used and nothing else.