Pathfinder

24 minutes ago, Infinity Sliver said:

I noticed this but I think when the SF bonds you,he speaks in italics but to the ones that are unbonded,he uses the small caps

Sorry maybe I should clarify. The entire prologue that the stormfather speaks is in italics EXCEPT when he says goodbye to gavilar. See below:

The biggest fool of them all, the Stormfather said. And the thing that has miscalculated. GOODBYE, GAVILAR. I HAVE SEEN A GLIMPSE OF WHAT IS COMING. AND I WILL NOT PREVENT IT.

“What?” Gavilar demanded, stepping forward. “What is coming?”

YOUR LEGACY.

i also included a screen capture because it shows the change more starkly.

Could be nothing, as Brandon said first draft and all, but anyone else notice that the type of script used to denote when the stormfather speaks changed when he said goodbye to gavilar?

So I know this is a stretch but I just want to put this down someplace so if I turn out right I can say I called it. I think the “stormfaker” is tanavast. In the WoB that Brandon confirmed that tanavast was dead, he did specify that a vessels death is a long event. Further he specified that as of the time of way of kings, tanavast is fully dead. So theoretically tanavast could still have been running around meddling like 

was, all the way up to the time of the shattered plains. It would explain the personality shift. WoB below

Wetlander

Did the Splintering happen before the Recreance?

Brandon Sanderson

I will reveal this as we go. However, be aware that in the past, when a Shard was killed, the person holding it, it is a slow burn to actually kill someone; because power cannot be destroyed. So, what it means to be killed means something a little different in these cases.

Hoser

Did Tanavast survive Honor's splintering?

Brandon Sanderson

Tanavast is dead. Good question. However, that is as of the start of The Way of Kings.

Hoser

So he could have survived the Splintering...

Brandon Sanderson

He could have survived the Splintering.

Hoser

...as a mortal...

Brandon Sanderson

Well, he could have survived for a time, but then he could not have then...

Hoser

...passed away in his sleep...

Brandon Sanderson

Right.

Exemplifying the oaths does not preclude you from a bond. Prime example is Szeth. He advanced through some of the skybreaker oaths far faster than others for that reason.

I think it's either iyatil or silver light. 

Could be to iyaltl (or however you spell her name). She has scadrian ancestry and lived on roshar.

Or could be someone on silver light (that's the place the seventeenth shard is right?).

Sorry writing this off the cuff so I could be messing up names and terms.

On 3/15/2022 at 1:52 PM, animalia said:

I just finished reading through this thread and I have a question about something that confused me. What does religion, or the lack thereof, have to do with anarchy?

I will try relate what I believe the point oltux was trying to make. It's been awhile, so I apologize if i misrepresent in advance. Basically so long as there is a being that can point at you and you go "poof", then anarchism cannot exist because a power beyond you can make the rules and enforce them on you, regardless how you personally feel. As made clear earlier in the thread, I disagreed with this for the reasons I mentioned. 

19 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

He has combat biomods which he recalls to be quite expensive. That strongly suggests that he is the real thing.

The expense was covered by his wife's life insurance, which is also why he went with a budget world and wasn't able to activate all of them. He went for combat biomods because he was afraid of getting hurt.

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In that case why did he have stuff installed he could not pay to activate? That suggests that he did that in his old job hoping to make the payments. That is something hard to do from a budget dimension.

So answered that above but basically he spent more money on the mods so he would be "safe" and went with a budget package to stretch the insurance money.

But there is one point that is crucial to all of this. It is the most important thing to the entire theory. It's going to be mind blowing when I write it, I assure you........

It was a joke. I had no intention of my original post being taken so seriously. Hence the line at the start being "would be funny if...."

Would be funny if it turned out like another Lightsong. Instead of this great fighter/soldier or detective/infiltrator, in reality he is a performer or dancer which would explain his flipping and physique. And the reason he naturally reaches for his side is he used to go to roleplay/Ren fairs all the time, playing as a wizard flinging "fireballs" with his wand. He and his wife always dreamed of going to another dimension so they could really get to live out their fantasies but she passed away in an accident. Using the life insurance money, he upgraded his body and bought a budget dimension to live out their dream. But either something glitched in the transfer or he found out something he wasn't supposed to and is now on the run without his memory thinking he's something he isn't. 

2 hours ago, Frustration said:

You can soulcast aluminum though, atium you cannot.

Well to clarify, you can for instance turn wood into aluminum no problem, but need a TON of Investiture to turn aluminum into wood.

So just hopping in to point out a few things.

1. Kandra spikes are just helping the kandra connect their three selves for sapiance so they wouldn't be any more invested than any other spike

2. Having said that, a spike with the blessing of presence might help resist though I would point out it does not make kandra completely immune from manipulation of a mistborn, and since we know Roshar is higher in investiture than scadrial, I would imagine that wouldn't be a massive impediment to a soulcaster

3. Regarding Jasnah's capabilities with soulcasting, she accomplishes three things in quick succession before Renarin sees and then feels the effects of the perpendicularity. She:

a. Soulcasts a human, which then hits another human spreading the soulcasting, hitting another human spreading the soulcasting

b. Soulcasts a wall to smoke

c. Soulcasts steps from air connected to a wall while actively running up them 

4. We also know ranged soulcasting is a normal feature of soulcasting and lightweavers could learn how to do it if they trained at it. Elsecallers are just better at it.

5. Personally I don't see soulcasting as overpowered. I see it as very versatile and can be strong in the right hands.

Personal musings as an aside. I wonder if kandra might be MORE susceptible to soulcasting than others due to mutability. It has been commented before how, especially the older generations, they lack much of a personal "identity ", often losing themselves to the part or adopting aspects of the individual they impersonate. If I recall correctly, that was why kandra would return to the homeland. To try and get some of "themselves" back. Same was commented on regarding Bleeder prior to going rogue. 

5 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Powerless unless they eat the Atium, at least. unless they're TLR, who couldn't eat his Atium without dying.

Sure, though trying to shove a metal armband down one’s throat might be more liable to cause choking especially when one’s goldminds and etc are now wood.

5 minutes ago, Nameless said:

I agree that a Radiant soulcaster would be able to soulcast filled metalminds (except for atium). All I'm saying is that the question was just vague enough that Brandon may have been thinking of a metalmind that was only partially filled.

That’s been argued before by others. Personally I think it was pretty clear that the question stated “full”, but to each their own.

1. The atium  minds would not need to be soulcasted. The only power they provide is age. Soulcast the other metal minds and the full born is powerless

2. Brandon specifically states  in another WoB that I will pull up later that Scadrials magic system is lower investiture than Roshars. So just because an average allomancer cannot see the bands with steel sight does not mean it equates to a shard blade. Brandon specifically mentions in the WoB that metal minds are less invested than shardblades

3. the bands of mourning are multiple metal minds. Each metal has to be individualistic otherwise it would cease to be its metal. So all metals except possibly nicrosil could be soulcasted without issue

4. I believe the WoB rather plainly states that a full metal mind can be soulcasted by an average soulcaster. Further Brandon stresses it would be within reason for that to work. 
 

At the end of the day, this whole concept is conjecture. People are certainly entitled to interpret as they see fit.

1 minute ago, Nameless said:

I... what? It's a picture. How can I have a subjective opinion about a picture?  The top left suit of Plate is more rounded, but there is still a line in the middle. Starting in the top left corner of the chestplate, there's a line that runs to the middle, then turns straight down. And half the chestplate is shaded, following a line. And even if it was rounded, a human chest is not rounded like that.

As I said, I am not going to argue with you. Ain't going down that rabbit hole. I made my points. I disagree. I wish you luck with your opinion. I am not being snarky or sarcastic. I just see no reason to continue. 

2 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Both suits of Shardplate in that picture are slightly pointed.

You are certainly entitled to see it that way. I do not. Wish you luck with your opinion. 

Just now, Nameless said:

I agree that Living Plate can provide both way tactile senstation, but the differences in shape between a chestplate and a human chest are way too different for that to matter unless the chestplate changes shape dramatically.

The picture from way of kings that i just posted shows the plate with the chest rounded. Further it would be close to the chest based on the proportions demonstrated by Adolin's face in the helm. I would need to put the image on my ipad to outline the body inside, but the impression given to me, is the person fills it out pretty well. Just because the other one has it slightly pointed doesn't mean they all have this giant triangle sticking out of their chest. 

5 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Would it be in any way possible to hug someone wearing that and not be able to feel the plate? That chestplate sticks out a couple inches off their chest. So either Kaladin got himself form-fitting Shardplate with no pieces that jut out oddly on his arms or chest, or the armor simply went intangible.

Totally not arguing with you. I learned my lesson from last time. All I will say in regards to this, is i took the quote to mean that the plate provided tactile sensation in both directions. How Kaladin can feel his father and what he touches, and his father can feel him. But like I said, ain't arguing with you. Made my point. I am good. 

4 minutes ago, Nameless said:

Also, Your size thing is totally off. Shardbearers are always described as massive and looming. This isn't real-life armor that has to be carried by normal people. This is fantasy power armor that lets you crush steel in your bare hands and immobilizes when it runs out of power. a couple millimeters thick is not consistent with the art in the books themselves either. Look at the shardbearer art in WoR and tell me that it would be in any way possible for someone to not notice that plate when being hugged.

The artwork does not make it as massive as you make it out to be. You even see Adolin's face for size reference. 

32 minutes ago, Anomander Rake said:

Hence my comment about jousting armor!  A foot soldier or even mounted knight would wear armor like the kind you mentioned and pictured, with gaps behind the knee, at the elbow, loose pauldrons at the shoulder, basically everywhere you need to move to run, jump, fight.  Jousting armor was made differently, for someone whos job it was to sit atop a horse and get slammed by a lance.  It was usually thicker, and certainly far heavier and far harder to move around in, hence better comparison for shardplate than normal steel plate.

*edit* - probably shouldve mentioned the difference more in my first comment lol

Good point on it not being steel tho, I've got nothing for that point.  beats me if i know the proper physical attributes of tanavastiam or koravarium XD

Shardblades weigh very little, less than a normal to a degree that people comment it feels weird to use.  But we know for a fact that shardplate is extremely heavy, heavier than normal armor, so that point is kind of invalid.

22 minutes ago, Anomander Rake said:

mb lol, juggling a lot at work today and responding between.  Fair, yeah.  I feel though that unless the added weight was a concession for all the added power and endurance Plate lent you, there would be no reason for it to be so heavy.  Maybe dead plate lost its ability to self maintain and is stuck heavy now, weighed down by that investiture-mass or something.

I also see the armor just being thicker as equally likely tbh.

What I am thinking is it is not so much thicker, as denser. And I mentioned in another post, I think the added weight may be on purpose so that when they swing the sword, they don't go flying. A lot of the stances we see for sword fighting have to deal with keeping your feet wide, and sturdily planted. 

Actually just recalled something that would support shardplate being heavier/denser than would be expected. When Brandon got advice from Shad, they discussed oversized swords (like clouds for instance). What was revealed is it doesnt matter how strong you are, the offset of weight of the oversized sword would tip you over. Unless of course you were heavier to balance it. So shardblades might be lighter by design for wielding, and shardplate heavier so the user doesn't tip over like a teapot everytime they swing.

1 hour ago, Anomander Rake said:

Magic aside, lets compare medieval plate armor to shardplate.  Medieval plate was usually 2-3mm thick, and would sometimes weigh upwards of 60 lbs, though shardplate is probably more similar to jousting armor, which was far heavier as the wearer didnt really need to move, so we can say ~120 lbs (those poor horses, yikes, on top of their own jousting armor).  Rosharans are big, really big, so we'll be generous and scale up by a third.  The Rosharan equivalent plate armor would weigh around ~160 lbs.  Maybe some particularly and broad shouldered shardbearers had their plate grow larger for them nearing something that would in theory weigh 200 lbs

Coppermind has dead plate at 1400 lbs.  1400!!!  Unless the investiture infusing the armor is adding real, gravity affected mass, I can't see it being anything but the mass of the armor by way of it being much thicker in places.

Not responding to back either side of the argument or anything. Just commenting specifically on where the extra weight could be coming in. 

Medieval Plate armor usually are pieces that are tied together that mostly covers the individual. There are still multiple locations and gaps due to the user needing to be able to move. For shardplate, all those places are fully covered with interlocking or overlapping scales. So no exposed seams. I could see the additional coverage adding weight. 

edit: also shardplate is not steel. It cracks and shattered, while steel bends and punctures. So judging the material's weight by something that functions differently from it I think is problematic. 

(a random example)

28 minutes ago, EmulatonStromenkiin said:

Kelsier. we have hints that kelsier will be an important character in the cosmere.

Kinda confused on what you mean. When Kelsier died, we didn't see him in book two or three, nor directly in the Wax and Wayne trilogy. Brandon specifically confirmed Jasnah is the main show in the remaining five stormlight books.

41 minutes ago, Humble_Knight said:

This is where my head is at as well. I think I thought of it during the Moash shardcast episode, where I think their stories could be an interesting intersection, especially with the theme of second chances. I also like the idea of Jasnah's assassination being the inciting event for the back half, thrusting Gavinor onto the throne, similar to Elhokar. Before anyone says Jasnah is a POV, there are several WoBs that someone doesn't need to be alive to be a PoV, and of the PoVs the most plausible are Jasnah and Ash.

Although it is true characters with their own book and flash backs can be dead at the time of their novel, Brandon has gone on record saying that Jasnah is a main character of the back 5 if not THE main character of the back 5. Kind of find it hard for her to have that much prominence and be dead.

So just a few things:

1. Assuming "generic" full born that has metal minds and metals to burn 

2. Metalminds are not as invested as shardblades and shardplate (WoB)

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/217/#e7299

3. A full metal mind can be soulcast by someone using a fabrial (WoB)

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/31/#e9681

4. Shardplate can be soulcasted and destroyed (WoB)

https://wob.coppermind.net/events/69/#e6254

5. Compounding works by storing in a metal, turning it into a metal mind. You then burn the metal mind getting out more investiture that you can then store into more metal minds. That does not change the nature of the metal mind itself. It is acting as a key to the power. So the metal mind itself is no more invested than the amount that is stored in it and metalminds have a limit to how much can be stored inside it.

So, a soulcaster can soulcast a fullborn's metalminds. Nothing about a fullborn changes how invested a metal mind is. A metal mind is a metal mind. Just wanted to clarify that point. Not coming in to argue who would win or what. Just and only on the function. 

Edit: two more thoughts:

1. The Lord Ruler's metal minds are no different than any other. Atium as a godmetal would be problematic to soulcast, but the only power that bestows to TLR is age. All the other metals could be soulcast to wood without issue. 

2. The Bands of Mourning, I could see the nicrosil possibly being problematic to soulcast but not all the other metals. Those could all be turned to wood. The only power the user would be left with is the potential to tap and the potential to burn but without anything to tap or anything to burn, the user would be "normal". The reason for this is two fold

         a. The metals cannot be "mixed" when forged into the spear head, otherwise the metals would cease to be individual metals and therefore could not be used. For instance you have to have steel still be steel otherwise it could not be stored in nor burned.

         b. The metals further cannot be "hidden" because they must be able to be touched to tap.

So each striation of metal on the spear head is still only that metal, thereby is a normal metalmind of that metal and still able to be soulcasted to wood.

4 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Better or worse for whom? And the refusal to qualify the question that way is the core of utilitarianism.

No, that is a personal moral judgement. That is separate than justification. You are the one that stated that Harmony keeping information from Wax is worse than anything Kelsier had done. Both scenarios are justified. I find it hard to believe killing someone's significant other in front of them is less traumatic than withholding information. 

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Harmony treated Waxillium like a tool not like a man who deserved making his own informed decisions.

Wax did make his own informed decision. In the future. Harmony holds Preservation which is better at future sight. We know this is correct because Wax himself confirms it. 

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Of course he had a reason. Yet following that reason means that the ends justify the means.

As I said both situations are justified. One involves allowing the person to make the choices they themselves admit they would want to take. The other involves taking a life to force someone to make a decision they would not normally take. 

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I would not go as far as saying that that is wrong. In fact I am not sure that there is a way beyond personal taste to say so. But I would demand honesty and consistency/ And I find Harmony lacking in that regard.

My exact points earlier is absent personal moral judgements, they are both justified, but one involves a person actively killing someone to further their own ends, while the other involves withholding information fully knowing that decision is the decision that Wax would want to take. 

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In contrast I find Thaidakar not to have that particular attitude and flaw/ He has others. But from that you cannot say that he is worse than the other side.

I never said anyone was worse than anyone. You did. This line of discussion started because you said Harmony keeping information from Wax is worse than anything Kelsier has ever done. I find it difficult to understand how withholding information is worse than killing someone's husband in cold blood. Further when withholding said information is with the consent of the person you are withholding it from. 

If you really want to oversimply it to strawman levels, Kelsier removed Vin's autonomy and right to choose. Harmony conversely honored Wax's autonomy and decision. Essentially because of Harmony's future sight, he asked Wax's permission, and got approval. Wax confirms those expectations true. Wax admits he would want to be the one to kill her. Wax admits he wouldn't want her to live in that state. Wax admits had he known it was her, he wouldn't be able to kill her. And Wax admits he would have asked Harmony to keep that info from him, so he could do what needed to be done. So Harmony did not use Wax as a tool. Harmony did exactly what Wax would have wanted him to do. So since Harmony did not manipulate Wax or use him, then the only action here being discussed is withholding information at the express request of the individual who the information is being kept from. To wit, I do not think that is comparable to murdering someone's husband in front of them. Quote below. 

Bands of Mourning page 394

"Why" Wax asked

"Because you demanded it of me."

"No I didn't!"

"Yes. A part of you did. An eventuality I can see, one of many possible Waxilliums, all you - yet not set. Know yourself, Waxillium. Would you have had another kill her? Someone she didn't know?"

"No" he whispered

"Would you have had her live on, a slave in her mind? Corrupted by that cursed spike that would forever leave her scarred, even if replaced?"

"No" He was crying

"And if you had known" Harmony said, holding his eyes "that you'd never have been able to pull that trigger unless your eyes were veiled? If you'd realized what knowledge of the truth would do to you - stilling your hand and trapping her in an endless prison of madness - what would you have asked of me?"

"Don't tell me" Wax whispered, squeezing his eyes shut