Naerin

So this is just an open question, to see if anyone has theories or knows of WoB that pertain to this. It's been bugging me for a while now how, for lack of a better term, special the Kholins seem to be. To my knowledge, becoming a Knight Radiant is not a matter of genetics (again, unless there's a WoB somewhere about this). This makes sense given how the magic system is essentially sentient; the spren choose the humans they bond with, and I don't think there has been any mention of them being limited by or drawn to different bloodlines. So why the Kholin's??? Dalinar is a Bondsmith, Renarin is a Truthwatcher, Jasnah is an Elsecaller. Elhokar describes seeing Cryptics in WoK (and keeps making obvious references to searching for the pattern of how things work, in both books - it is actually a defining, and very whiny, character trait), implying that he at least has the potenital to be a Lightweaver (maybe he is or was on some kind of shortlist of candidates :P). Beyond that, before Dalinar was chosen by the Stormfather to receive Honor's video diary, it is heavily implied that it was shown to Gavilar first. It is mentioned that he told Taravangian just before his death that he had visions about the Almighty and a storm. So yeah, that's a lot! Of the six Kholin's we've seen in the books (not counting Navani, since she is Kholin by - double! - marriage), five are either Knights Radiant or in some way special. No real theory on my part yet, still thinking it over, but it strikes me as very odd and I'm wondering if anyone has a theory or WoB to help shed light on this.

I don't have a WoB on this (not sure if there is one or not) but I would presume that a coppercloud would offer at least something similar by way of protection. As you said it protects against emotional allomancy, which is a mental interaction. And there does seem to be a great deal of flexibility in how the different magic systems (or subsystems, really, since it is all one magic system) interact, since many seem to work on similar underlying principles.

To those disputing that the bird on Mraize's shoulder is likely an Aviar, I get the argument about feasibility, but it is definitely Brandon's style to do something like this: an easter egg for cosmere-aware readers that could be played off as a strange quirk by others (so as not to distract from the story). But come on. A mysterious bird, perched on the shoulder of a guy who has been shown to collect Invested items from different worlds. If this is not an Aviar, then it is Brandon deliberately trolling us. To my knowledge there have been zero other references to people on Roshar (or in any cosmere books that I can remember - please correct me if I'm wrong) possessing pet birds, and Shallan specifically makes note of its weirdness. The only other example in any cosmere work of people with birds perched on their shoulders (again, correct me if I'm forgetting something) is the Aviar. The better question is what does it do. Again working off of the assumption that this is an easter egg for cosmere readers and not an important plot element, I will venture a guess and say that it is one of the basic "concealers." My guess is that the Aviar who prevent the hunters from sensing minds can also work to keep others from sensing other forms of Investiture, helping Mraize hide from other cosmere-aware characters who might have ways of sensing or tracking Investiture. That is just wild speculation but I think it fits with the general tone of these cross-world easter eggs.

I agree 100%. I don't think any of the four will be Odium's champion. Szeth frankly because it seems sooooo obvious (he has literally been referred to as The One Who Hates) and we all know how Brandon likes his twists. He rarely goes the "obvious" route. Dalinar because as has been mentioned it would fly in the face of his arc. Shallan because I just don't see it. Even when she thought Amaram killed her brother she didn't seem to be able to sustain true hate for him. It would just come completely out of nowhere, character-wise. Adolin because WoB indicates his role was expanded after seeing how well he worked in WoR. We know the Stormlight Archives have been outlined for a while. Presumably that includes the Champion, and it seems unlikely an intended side character gets promoted to Big Bad. Honestly Kaladin makes the most sense of those characters. WoB have stated that clues to the SA conclusion can be found from the first book. And since the first book, Kaladin's inability to stop caring has been a major character point. This spirals into depression at times (when he can't protect people), but it also spirals into hatred. Of the main protagonists, only Kaladin has consistently demonstrated profound hatred of any particular group. Yes, it is righteous hatred, hatred of how unfair the world is, etc... But it is still hatred. And I can understand how people could see that be used against him or morph into a kind of furious nihilism, sort of like what happened to Szeth. Especially given the recent hints at a moral rift between him and Syl. I personally don't think that will happen, but I can understand where others are coming from who see that as a possibility. Personally I think it will be Eshonai, who has been set up as a tragic villain. But that's just wild speculation.

You are probably right. But I can dream! We'll find out on Tuesday. Coincidentally the day where I come down with a mysterious illness and have to miss work.

Awesome breakdown of the implications. That is basically what I was thinking in terms of the chronology of things, but you took it a step further (upvote!) by pointing out how the the Alethi war on the Parshendi fits into it all, which I hadn't considered. Now whether Odium literally set up the whole thing is open for debate, but at the very least he capitalized on the war to pressure the Parshendi into becoming Fused. I hadn't thought about that in terms of a long play by Odium, so that's very interesting.

To be honest, that was the origin or seed of the theory. The Highstorm occured to me as a way of Honor "regulating" the system, and Nale is almost flat out confirming that the Knights Radiant could at least potentially cause another Desolation. And I don't think the Parshendi summoning the Everstorm actually refutes his theory. It's not that he was wrong necessarily, it's that he failed. It's like if someone spent all their effort barricading the doors into their home, and then a theif climbs in through the window. And this gets back to what has been mentioned above by others: there are existing perpendicularities. Like the Horneater lakes. Maybe there is some reason these don't work for Odium's purposes, or maybe they do work, it's just that it is a matter of scale. Because obviously some voidspren can find their way to Roshar (hence the stormform Fused), but maybe the perpendicularities are either too weak, too small, or too unstable to allow for large-scale invasions. So Odium can sneak in spies through the cracks in the walls, then once inside they can kick open the doors from within. That's how I interpret it anyway, but I agree there is something that doesn't quite line up with what we know of perpendicularities. It is entirely possibly that the mechanisms of the Oathpact are similar but not quite the same thing. As in, the critical mass of Investiture through the Heralds or Knights Radiant or what have you does somehow allow the Voidbringers to cross between the worlds, but in a way that is a bit different from how we've seen normal perpendicularities work.

Perhaps I am just reading into things too much, but I think it is interesting that Szeth had neither reaction to Nightblood. There is no description of nausea, but also no description of lust or craving. Just mild curiosity. To me this speaks to Szeth's thematic arc as Truthless, someone who doesn't believe in anything anymore, and doesn't want anything, except guidance. Which gets into what everyone has already said about him using Nightblood as a moral guide, as if he can't really come back from being Truthless, and still needs some kind of external touchstone in order to go on living and making decisions about right and wrong. It should be a really fascinating dynamic to explore and I really, really hope they get a decent amount of POV time in Oathbringer.

The gif is wholly appropriate.

I suspect that Shallan will initially hide her involvement with the Ghostbloods from Jasnah, but not because of any loyalty to them or really for any good reason at all. Consider how she is increasingly using her different personas to hide even from those close to her. Her first instinct was to hide her Veil apparel from Adolin, for no real reason other than she wasn't "ready" for him to know that part of her. It is becoming instinctive for her to keep secrets and compartmentalize the different parts of herself. Talking to Jasnah about the Ghostbloods would be Veil and Shallan and Radiant coliding, and I don't think she will be ready for that right away. I think part of her arc in this book will be learning to trust, and learning that trust means sharing (and accepting) the different parts of herself with those closest to her. That's just my guess though. I think it fits with her current character arc for her to keep the secret on impulse, even if she knows she shouldn't and doesn't have a good reason to do so.

Thanks @StormingTexan! That would have driven me crazy wondering over the implications and coming up with increasingly unhinged theories about Cultivation being the secret villain of the Stormlight Archives. Good to know I was just overthinking things and seeing connections where there weren't any. UNLESS....

So I have a question, and I apologize if this is common knowledge and I'm just missing something. But why is there a woman depicted in the border for the Voidbinding chart? Odium, the presumed source of Voidbinding, is male. And the Surgebinding chart is bordered by what I'm assuming are the ten Heralds. This suggests that the borders are thematic, using associated figures. What's more the female figure is strongly suggestive of the Nightwatcher. One arm is unadorned with light skin, the other seems cloaked in fabric, light and dark, mirroring the boon and the curse granted by the Nightwatcher. In turn, the Nightwatcher is strongly implied to be Cultivation. Wyndle (a cultivationspren) refers to the Nightwatcher as "Mother." So that seems pretty clear-cut. If not Cultivation herself at least an affiliate, like the Stormfather to Honor. And yet, a figure that thematically suggests her is featured in the border of the Voidbinding chart. Am I reading too much into this? Is there an easy explaination I've missed based on the context?

What if they are literally Cognitive Shadows of the Heralds? The Heralds have died a bunch of times. Sure, they get better, but that doesn't necessarily mean that they don't produce Cognitive Shadows. And if the Stormfather is a merger of a spren with the cognitive shadow of Honor, or something like that, perhaps the Unmade are produced the same way. That way they could kind of be considered to have once been human, and also be directly linked to the Heralds (while at the same time allowing for the fact that the Heralds are still around). Of course one major question that raises is why there are only 9 of them and not 10.

That's a good point! But presumably the Stormfather didn't exist before the Shards came, and he/it is now what controls the Highstorms. I agree it's a potential hole in the theory, but I don't think it's a stretch to assume that an existing phenomenon could have been repurposed for Honor's own agenda. So I guess there's two possibilities. 1) The Stormfather was just associated with storms so often by mortals that he developed control over them natural (and therefore Honor had nothing to do with it) or 2) Honor created the Stormfather as a way of utilizing the Highstorms for the above purposes. Option two still supports my theory. Option one punches a hole in it, but I think a relatively small one. Even if the Highstorms aren't a mitigation system, the parallels between Heralds and Knights Radiant (and to a lesser degree between the KR and the Listeners at the end of WoR) still hold.

There's been a lot of speculation about what the secret was that destroyed the Knights Radiant, as well as speculation into the causes or mechanics of the Desolations and the Oathpact. I have a wild theory that connects the two. There's probably a thousand things wrong with it, and even I see a bunch of holes and leaps in logic, but hopefully it will at least be entertaining. It starts with a WoB exchange I saw posted in another topic earlier today by Steeldancer, so credit goes to them for finding this quote: So we know that the Heralds all being present on Roshar causes another Desolation to occur. The question is, why? Well let's consider what we know of Worldhopping, because that is essentially what is happening. Spren (and perhaps originally the Listeners themselves) come from Braize to Roshar. Other worldhoppers transition between the Cognitive realm and the Physical realm using Perpendicularities. Other WoB have confirmed that perpendicularities could be caused by a massive amount of Investiture. I believe it was confirmed that Jasnah essentially did a miniature version of this to return to the physical world. My theory is that the Heralds act like Investiture lodestones. If they stay long enough in the world, there is a kind of critical mass that occurs, creating enough of a perpendicularity for Odium's forces to transition en masse into Roshar. This is basically how the new Everstorm worked. Once a critical mass of Fused Listeners was reached, they were able to call the storm. I believe the Everstorm itself is Odium’s perpendicularity on Roshar, at least this time around. We know it carries Voidspren with it, and could be what allows them to come into the Physical realm in large numbers. We also know that it was created by a large number of Fused (ie, Invested) Listeners pooling their energies. That sounds like a recipe for a perpendicularity to me. Now what if the Highstorm works in the exact opposite way (which would make sense, since they are reversed in every other way). The Highstorm is described by (suspiciously colour-obsessed and oddly familiar) “Zahel” as “invested to the hilt and looking for somewhere to stick it.” (As an aside: god bless “Zahel”). The Highstorm disperses Investiture. It takes a huge amount, maybe enough to form a perpendicularity, but then spreads it out across literally the entire world. I submit that this was its primary purpose (because remember, the Stormfather has been tasked with keeping the Highstorms coming, and presumably Honor would have some reason for unleashing these things periodically upon the world). My theory is that there are other ways to enable (or hasten) a Desolation. Perhaps with sufficiently concentrated Investiture, Odium can create a workaround, or at least speed things up, with less time between Desolations. The Highstorm is a check against this by dispersing Investiture, whereas the Everstorm keeps it concentrated (which is which it doesn’t infuse gems with Stormlight). So Honor works to prevent (large) perpendicularities from forming, and Odium tries to create more. Smaller perpendicularities ensure that the two worlds will never be entirely isolated, but might not facilitate a lare-scale invasion. The Oathpact, then , could be an agreement. Honor creates a bargain by which Odium has a shot at Roshar every once and a while. Honor essentially creates the Honorblades as a controlled means of opening a path between worlds by way of highly concentrated Investitute (which could be why Syl refers to Szeth using a dangerous amount of Stormlight with the Honorblade). At the same time though, he makes them double as a means of fighting against the very invasion they facilitate. Odium, in turn, agrees not to just come over to Roshar and destroy it himself, an agreement that binds him even after Honor's death. So how do the Knights Radiant fit in? Well we already know that they were not intended by Honor. They were the result of the spren taking it upon themselves to mimic what he had done. They mimic the Honorblades, which are presumably involved with the Oathpact (see above). What if, unintentionally, they have re-created certain aspects of the Oathpact as well, as a side effect of the nahel bond? The Heralds, when concentrated on Roshar, kicked off Desolations. The Fused, when concentrated on Roshar, kicked off the Everstorm. And for however many centuries, human beings, Invested to the hilt, as it were, were concentrating themselves in a specific location: Urithiru. What if this was enough to, if not cause the Desolations, at least exacerbate them in some way? What if it created enough of a perpedicularity to allow some of Odium's forces onto Roshar in a consistent manner, like a door propped open even between the Desolations. Spoilers from Edgedancer: To me, this seems like the kind of revelation that would utterly crush a group dedicated to sacrificing for the good of all. To learn that they and their spren had in fact been causing or at least hastening/worsening the Desolations, that all of their efforts and sacrifice were only perpetuating a cycle of endless violence, I could see that breaking them, and causing the Recreance.

Those are some good points. I had forgotten about those charming gentlemen and their interesting take on moral thresholds. And I definitely agree that Re-Shepnir could be causing so much havoc with her abilities. That was kind of my point though. That she just isn't. And the stuff she is doing doesn't seem terribly subtle or strategic, but rather pretty random. I just think she's not really under orders right now, because she's acting less like an enemy agent of evil and more like a broken and lost (but still dangerous) creature.

Sebarial: Humankind's secret weapon against the machinations of the Unmade! Also see: "To alcohol! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems." - Homer Simpson

Something else to consider is that Taravangian is working off of the premise that he has been granted the "capacity" to preserve humankind. From his perspective, this means intellect and logic unfettered by emotions. He still has regrets but his actions are not determined by them, they are a consequence of his moral choices, but irrelevant to the actual decision-making process (which is why he chides Dalinar for suggesting that the decision should be made to avoid those regrets). But from WoR we know that in him, intelligence seems to be inversely proportional to compassion, in a way that isn't necessarily true in other people. On his most "brilliant" days he makes ludicrous "logical" choices that could never actually work. But he doesn't seem to question whether this means that other coldly logical decisions (like the horrific Death Rattle factory, and his decision relating to the parable) might also be flawed. I wonder if he has misinterpreted "capacity." Because that wording could mean either "intellectual capacity" OR "capacity for empathy and compassion." Maybe he has the whole thing backwards, and is "stupid" days are the ones where he actually has a greater capacity to choose the right path and make moral decisions, which is ultimately what the world needs to survive.

Agreed, but it just doesn't seem as though it is all that calculated. That is a risk for sure...except that no one seems to be noticing. It took Shallan actively investigating to even realize something was odd. In fact, the additional murder actually had the opposite effect. Initially, no one even considered the possibility of a second killer. They assumed it was some kind of serial killer. And since IIRC the second murder was from among Sebarial's forces, the killer didn't even seem to be aligned to a particular political faction. If you think about it, without that additional, apparently random murder, Sadeas' death seems more like a political thing, and thus causes more tension between the various groups. So I agree that Re-Shephir could cause all kinds of problems like you describe. But she just...didn't. No panic, no revenge, no cycles of violence, nothing. So either she just totally sucks at her job, or she has some other more subtle purpose, or she's just acting independently out of curiosity, meaning the damage is largely incidental rather than some diabolic plan.

I think we're looking at this a little sideways. Let's say Honor was in fact using the Knights Radiant to oppose Odium for the good of the Cosmere but not necessarily for the benefit of humankind. Yeah, many of the Knights would be mighty pissed, but really that still fits with their general mission statement doesn't it? These are people who willingly sacrifice for others. Their whole motto is that the journey is what is important, so the fact that there was less "in it" for humanity wouldn't necessarily change the fact that it was the right thing to do. And we see by Honor's video diary that he did care for humans, so it's not like he was using them callously. My question is, what if Nale was right in Edgedancer? He was killing potential Knights Radiant because he believed it would prevent a Desolation. Now obviously that didn't work. BUT we also get that dialogue between Jasnath and Hoid, where we learn that this time around the Everstorm is working DIFFERENTLY. And it has seemingly been much longer between Desolations this time...the one time when the Knights Radiant weren't around between them. So, what if the existence of the Knights actually helps CAUSE the Desolations? We know that perpendicularities are needed to worldhop. And these are essential pools of Investiture. We also know that Odium's forces are from another world. What if the general concentration of Investiture in high-level Knights somehow makes it easier for Voidspren to transition onto Roshar, starting a new Desolation. Maybe it doesn't cause it outright, but maybe it makes it easier for them, and the Desolations more frequent. This is just wild speculation on my part, but I feel like it fits better. Imagine you are a Knight devoted to sacrificing for the greater good. Then you realize that in fact all of your efforts are only helping to perpetuate this endless cycle of war. Remember that when the Heralds set down their blades, they speculated that that might end the cycle of Desolations. That seems like an odd thing to say, unless it is more complicated than just one side attacking over and over. Almost as if there was something on the Roshar end of things that was perpetuating the cycle as well. Learning that would be more devestating than discovering you had been used or tricked. Because it is YOUR FAULT. Yours and the spren. Because remember the bond was not part of Honor's original plan. Spren did that to imitate the Honorblades. Perhaps this had unintended side-effects. That would explain why the Knights determined to reject the powers themselves, killing their spren, in the hopes of ending whatever effect was helping to perpetuate the cycle of Desolations.

I meant that it is like the parable in a thematic sense. The core aspect of the parable is this: There are four people. Three of them are dangerous, potential threats to others and the community itself. But you have no way of determining which ones. So what do you do? Do you let all go free, or do you execute or imprison them all, because even if one is innocent it is worth it to eliminate the threat. Now imagine how people are going to react when/if Kaladin tries to help the escaped parshmen. They are going to say that it is too dangerous, because even if they seem innocent, any one of them could potentially transform into a monster. So to be safe other humans will argue that they should all be imprisoned, executed, or at the very least not trusted. Not precisely the same as the parable. But then it would be pretty silly if it perfectly fit the exact situation another character was in right at that moment. The point is that the underlying themes are quite similar. For the record I also think there is a clear "right" answer. But I can see it being something the characters struggle with or disagree over. I can also see Kaladin raising your exact point. That humans can be monsters too, just in a less dramatic or physically literal sense. And that therefore the parshmen should be given the same basic level of trust, rather than being hated out of fear of what they might become.

Thanks for the information. I was going off of what was in the books only for my Mists/Thrill interpretations but obviously lacked some context. Could have sworn the stuff from Mistborn was more or less explicitly stated within the books but I suppose that was just character interpretation. Ah well. I guess I read too much into the brief exchange from Dalinar's visions as well. Or perhaps the comment about "all those with a desire to fight" coming to them was in reference to needing the protection of Honor, since that might indicate they were tainted by Nergaol (Urithiru being the place "closest to Honor" after all). Ah well again.

What I think is really awesome about Dalinar's discussion with Taravangian is how it neatly sets up the crux of Kaladin's upcoming moral dilemma. We know the Listeners are not inherently evil, and the escaped parshmen he is travelling with seem very sympathetic. They are going out of their way not to hurt people, despite their understandable rage at humans. Now obviously we don't know where they're going yet, or what they're planning. But let's assume that not every Listener is going to be okay with the idea of being possessed again. Eshonai and her folk were basically tricked into it, so presumably others might resist the idea as well. This leaves Dalinar and friends (but Kaladin in the short term) with a moral quandry. Any freed parshmen they meet COULD become a voidbringer. If they are taken in as refugees and then decide to accept an evil spren and transform in the middle of a human force, that could be very dangerous. So it's like the parable. You have a group of people, with no way of telling who might be dangerous in the future, but knowing that any of them COULD be murderers. So do you kill all the Parshendi/Listeners? Do you take in those who are fleeing like Kaladin has met, and risk that wannabe voidbringers are lurking among them? I could be wrong but it seems like this scene has brilliantly set up what I expect will be a major moral issue within this book, when so many assumptions about the Voidbringers are being challenged and complicated.

I think it is interesting that Re-Shephir doesn't seem to be particularly threatening at this junction. I mean, she caused what, a handful of deaths in all the time she was there? By definition, the people gathered at Urithiru themselves killed each other at an equal pace (and that's assuming she mirrored every single death or act of violence going on, which seems unlikely). An outbreak of a stomach bug would honestly be more frightening. But then we have her encounter with Shallan and friends, and Re-Shephir seems pretty formiddable. So why not just flood the tower with monsters before now? Without them reporting back to her it is unlikely Shallan would have discovered where the monsters were coming from nearly as quickly. At least not before some serious damage was done. It isn't even psychological warfare, since the vast majority of people don't even realize any weird is going on. So what gives? It seems to me that either the Enemy is fairly incompetent, or Re-Shephir is acting without orders right now. Her actions strike me as confused and childish. She's trying to understand people in this twisted, violent way. But it doesn't seem particularly calculated. Maybe she is just learning so that she can be better at killing all humans (a worthy goal). But maybe there's more, and less, to it. Maybe she's just...changed. "This thing was ancient. Created long ago as a splinter of the soul of something even more terrible, Re-Shephir had been ordered to sow chaos, spawning horrors to confuse and destroy men. Over time, slowly, she’d become increasingly intrigued by the things she murdered." This doesn't sound like she has turned on Odium or anything like that, but it does seem like she has evolved to be a little more complex, more than just the tool of destruction she was made to be. Maybe I'm reading way too much into it but I think it would be interesting if it turns out the Enemy isn't this united, cohesive force, that the forces of Odium, including the Unmade, have changed over all this time as well, and might have forgotten or drifted away from their original purpose, just like humans. So maybe Re-Shephir is a threat, but not strictly speaking an opponent. More like a confused, rapid animal. Tragic and dangerous, but not necessarily evil, and maybe not fully working for Odium in any kind of strategic way any longer.

[ Spoilers from the first 30 chapters of Oathbringer currently released ] So with the "final Desolation" pretty much officially underway as of the end of WoR, the main question going through my mind has been: how the hell can Odium actually lose??? Think about it. We know from Dalinar's visions and various other lore elements that in the past each Desolation nearly wiped out humankind. In fact, the justification for the current level of technology (or lack thereof) is that civilization is basically pushed back to the bronze age with each Desolation because of how devestating they are. And now consider this: that was with the full, organized strength of the Knights Radiant. Literal armies of them. Plus the Heralds! Now we have the Final Desolation coming, and so far there's only a handful of fledgling Knights Radiant, none of whom even have their Shardplate yet. Not only that, but the existing nations are super divided, and at the start of Oathbringer it looks as though it will not be easy to unite even a small number of them. So how can Odium screw this up? How could this be even a close fight? It seems to me that the only possibility is that the Listeners (at least some of them) are going to fight with humans. This is being set-up already at the beginning of Oathbringer, where we see groups of former parshmen slaves, healed by the Everstorm, basically just on the run. Not trying to attack, not out to kill humans in vengeance even (though they have real cause to want revenge). Just trying to survive, and most importantly not yet infused with any type of Voidspren (at least not in any obvious way). We also know that the Listeners way back made a choice to cut themselves off from their gods (Odium and co), restricting their forms drastically but earning freedom. They assassinated Gavilar in an effort to stop their "gods" from returning. They don't want to be Voidbringers, and I can totally see at least some of them fighting to maintain their freedom, refusing to be used by Odium. This could be what is "different" about this Desolation, the edge that humanity needs to balance the scales just enough to have a hope of winning. It would also fit with the themes established throughout the Cosmere books (spoilers for Mistborn series coming). We know from The Hero of Ages that the Deepness was in fact the mists. But more than that, it was Preservation's power tainted by Ruin. Ruin caused the Snapping process to be more brutal than it needed, killing people instead of just awakening their powers, covering the land and blocking out the Sun when it wasn't meant to, etc... This was Preservation's actual power, but Ruin managed to influence it. This shows that the influence of the Shards is not always rigid and distinct. There is overlap and intermingling, where multiple Shards use the same basic phenomenon. That is what the Thrill has to be. Dalinar's first revealed vision, where he fights Midnight Essence, with a poker. The Knight explains that any who feel the desire to fight should be compelled to go to Aletha. The Thrill USED TO BE a force for good, a way of telling people that they were destined to fight evil alongside the Knights (either as a full member or as a "squire." Since then, it has been twisted by Odium into something that makes people lust for battle and death. And without actual monsters around, they turn on each other, or make a game out of war, or almost kill their own brother. Odium is doing the same thing that Ruin did. But maybe it can go both ways. I've seen others here comment that it is odd that the Everstorm seems to heal the parshmen, making them whole again by reforging their Connection (incidentally, because of how we know this works from the second Mistborn series, this explains why they all speak unaccented Alethi). This seems like a very un-Odium thing for the Everstorm to do, especially since they do not seem to be possessed by Voidspren yet. What if Cultivation pulled the same kind of trick? Twisting the Everstorm just enough that it healed parshmen without automatically dominating them, giving them at least a chance to resist, run, be free, what have you? We know from the Jasnath-Hoid dialogue that the Everstorm is "new" or at least working differently than how the Desolations worked in the past. Perhaps the reason is that this time there are forces other than Odium at work on it. There are even hints about this in the depiction of the Midnight Mother. During Shallan's interactions, it is revealed that she was created to sow chaos, but that over time she became curious. Yes, it is a twisted, warped curiosity. But consider her actions at Urithiru. Did she flood the tower with monsters? Did she set about assassinating actual targets? No, she just copied what humans were already doing. Does this seem particularly effective? Or does it seem like a lost, broken creature trying to comprehend these creatures through the only relationship she understands: violence? My point is just this: she has actually changed since her creation. Just like the Everstorm is different this time. Just like maybe the Listeners aren't behaving the way Odium might want this time around. A big theme so far is how the good guys, left to their own devices, become corrupt and fell. But I think Brandon is hinting that maybe, just maybe, the reverse is true for the villains. Odium is banking on how time changes humans, makes them forget why they fought and abandon what they once were. But wouldn't it be poetic if the same was also happening to his forces? The Unmade have changed, however slightly. The Listeners seem to have changed as well. And maybe this time around they will surprise him, make him think that he could actually lose...