Fifth of Daybreak

I feel like that's a bit of a stretch. You have to get pretty close to use a knife. If the Dark eyes drew before getting close enough, Sadeas would have time to react. If he waits, Sadeas will get suspicious when he gets close (assuming American personal space customs.) Adolin didn't go for his knife until after Sadeas was on the ground dazed from a blow to the head, and even then had trouble finishing. Sadeas is a trained veteran soldier, I don't think a Dark eyes could take him by surprise like that, which would be the only way to kill him. As far as the shadows, the knife wouldn't have been stabbed into his eye had that been the case. A slit throat or a knife in the back would work better for a premeditated assassination attempt.

It's not as much about not taking the Blade, or even about the killing with the knife, but the way the Blade was hidden. It won't take much conjecture to conclude that it was thrown out that window to land on the terrace, and that shows the killer didn't care to hide it that well. I feel that if the murder was done by a non-Shardbearer, they would take the time to hide the Blade to try and recover it. Also, greed blinds a good money people to common sense. Although, I doubt they'll think a darkeyes did it. No darkeyes could get that close to Sadeas without him becoming suspicious, which then it would've been next to impossible for them to kill Sadeas the way he was killed. The fact that he had that six foot death bringer changes how the investigation would look at it. It would've had to be someone Sadeas trusted, or at least knew, in order to be in a position for that sort of assassination to work. I don't think I've ever even seen Sadeas talk to a Darkeyes, let alone let one get close enough to him to attack him with a knife.

But how many of those non-shardbearers would just toss a Shardblade out a window carelessly? If the killer was someone without a Blade, they'd find a way to hide it better, and retrieve it later to bond in secret. Maybe a week sick in bed like Dalinar did. Leaving the Blade there points to a Shardbearer, who'd be the only one who could afford to not care what happens to a Blade, since they already have one.

It says the murder wasn't for the Shardblade. Then, it also raises questions about the marking on the wall. Someone who didn't commit the murder for the Shard, but still had the forethought to use it on the wall isn't as plausible as a Shardbearer murderer, who would be used to having his own shard to do that with. This then could lead to pointing out Adolin more quickly, being one of the few Shardbearers with a motive. Edit: Made the meaning more clear.

Shardbearers are tried, they just aren't imprisoned.

Blood is not relatively easy to clean at all without something to wash with. And there is no later on. That's the last we hear of Adolin. "..and walk as far away as he could before finding one of his scouting parties and pretending he'd been in that area all along." We don't have any mention of what the guards see, or say. The last piece of text we have for him in the book leaves it open. I think we have a lot more freedom of assumption for what happens after that. It leaves it at what Adolin's plan was for dealing with them. It very well could (and as likely would not) go something like this. "Brightlord, there you are!" "Yes, I seem to have gotten turned around in this area for quite a bit. Such a large tower." "Brightlord, what happened to your cuffs?" (This is noting Adolin's usually impeccable appearance since he wishes to be fashionable but has to wear a uniform." "Uh..." "Brightlord, is there blood on your hands?" "Uh...I cut myself. It's cleaned now. I had to use my cuffs for bandages." Word gets around that Adolin was wounded but Adolin refuses to let anyone see the wounds. Things get suspicious. This is pure conjecture and just as likely to not happen, maybe even more so, than it is to happen, but you can see my point. It just leaves off with him finding the patrol and pretending to have been in the same area as them, sans cuffs, sans side knife, with no way to wash his hands, which may or may not be bloody.

My personal theory is that, since the Shardblade attacks the soul of the object, that's the reason it died first, and why he could be revived. There was no damage physically (I'm assuming Nalan did some Gravitation tricks when Szeth fell) and the body was still viable, so he was able to spiritually reconnect him. The aspects wouldn't necessarily die in this order in other causes of death.

THIS!

The cuffs were because they were bloodstained, not expensive, but from the way the chapter is worded he's obviously not in a rational state of mind, which is why he uses the phrase 'thoughts coming more clearly,' and 'had the presence of mind.' So I wouldn't necessarily say silly. It wasn't a premeditated crime so it's not like he had a 'murder cover up checklist,' but that's why I think he's going to be caught easily. The one thing I can see masking Adolin's action with his Blade is if he is able to recover Dalinar's shardblade without anyone noticing. Then he can just claim that the mark was made using Oathbringer by the murderer before they fled.

No getting around this. We need the whole scene transcribed right after the point of Sadeas's death. I absolutely cannot reconcile him taking the side knife from this passage. The last time it's directly named by the section is in red. After that, you can see by my color coding that Shardblades are then referenced three times before the 'weapon' in question is mentioned (underlined in the passage), and using the blue, I noted that 'weapon' is used twice immediately before the use in question to to stand in for Shardblades. So in order for this to mean he took the side knife, it would have to reference a noun used four paragraphs earlier, and would have to ignore the uses that would be appropriate that were in the previous paragraph, and three paragraphs before. Then you combine this with the fact that he backed away from the body to preserve his clothes from blood before picking up the 'weapon' in question. Why would he step back to avoid blood, only to step forward again, and pull a bloody knife out of the body? Why wouldn't there be something in the text about the action. Brandon loves visuals and descriptions that evoke emotion, even if it's disgust or revulsion, and pulling a knife out of someone's brain and eye socket is certainly evocative. He wouldn't miss that opportunity to put in some good descriptions that would make all of you not in the medical field squirm. Then there's the flow of logic. We know the Shardblade was on the ground, and Adolin was staring at it when it's referred to as 'that weapon.' The very next action after 'Adolin stared at that weapon' is 'Adolin picked up the weapon and stumbled away,' and the action immediately after that is 'He ditched the Blade out a window.' So Adolin has to go from looking at his father's blade, to stooping over Sadeas's body to pull the knife out, (note, he'd have to pull the knife out, not just pick it up) then he'd have to pick up the Shardblade, then ditch it. We just don't have the text to support that! He's staring at the Blade. He picks up the Blade. He ditches the Blade. Continuity of actions in line with what we're given in the script. I don't think they'd assume that the scrape was from the fight. There'd be more slashes and rows cut into the stone instead of just one scrape. Plus, they'd have a hard time believing Sadea's would die to a knife if he had his Shardblade out for the fight. The only way that attack could work on a Shardbearer is if it were a complete surprise. Plus I think the chalk mark is a small distance from the body and where the fight happened, since it's after he stumbles away that he fixes the chalk mark.

All I can say, it wait to see what Kaladin does flying falling through the air on Dreamstorm. You see a man riding a flying horse wielding a magical spear, you run. I agree with Aleksiel. We haven't seen Ryshadium do anything cool yet, because we haven't seen any Radiants on a Ryshadium yet. Don't diss the horse because the batteries aren't included!

I see no support to say he took the blade. That says to me he worked the blade, Sadeas dies, he jumps back to avoid blood. If he pulls that knife out, he's going to get blood on him again. The section you omitted is important to the interpretation of the section. The knife hasn't been referred to for several paragraphs, but it references the Shardblade as 'weapon' immediately before that paragraph, and the use of 'weapon' again is used to describe the Shardblade. It's logical flow of action as well. He picks up the Blade, then throws the Blade. I don't want to rehash all my points in threads that are right next to each other at the moment, but there's some good discussion about this going on here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/12758-the-biggest-challenge-facing-the-new-knights-radiant/

Very carefully Though Adoin won't be going to prison. It's bloody. It's all sorts of bloody. It just went through Sadeas' eye and into his brain. There's no way it's not bloody. It's probably got all sorts of grey matter (brain) on it as well. There's the blood, and there's Adolin seperating himself from the body. It's after that he does everything else, and the text doesn't say he comes back towards it. I think you started your quote earlier too late, and missed some of the connotation: There, we see he's stunned, right after the fight. I skipped some stuff about Blades not being good in CQC. As has been said before, Adolin was not thinking very clearly. You say not stating he takes it means we don't know, but why would we not get a full rundown of his actions before he leaves the area? What you're proposing is that Adolin pulls the knife out of Sadeas's eye socket, cleans the blade (Somehow. He'd have to wipe it off on Sadeas, and that would eat more time, and could cause him more of a mess since there is blood oozing from his now empty eye socket, not to mention the blood splatter from pulling the knife out,) then uses it to cut off his cuffs, and puts the blade away before he walks off, all of which he does without any text to support even though we have text giving us Adolin's actions between killing Sadeas and walking away. Seems a bit of a stretch to me. I'd rather not believe Brandon would deliberately deceive us like that. Even if so, that is probably more risky if he has the knife like that. There's no way he could get it completely clean using Sadea's clothes, so having the bloody murder weapon on you when you've got blood on your hands, and are missing your cuffs is still very suspicious. I very much doubt he took the knife with him though. I'm not sure how often you've had to clean up blood, but it isn't easy. With just a cloth and nothing to wash it with, it's next to impossible he's going to get that dagger completely clean on the spot. It's be just as hard later once it dries and congeals into the nooks and crannies of the hilt too.

I think it would kind of defeat the point of cutting off his cuffs if he did so with a bloody knife.

Motive means and opportunity. While it doesn't seem like anyone can place Adonin at the scene of the crime, there's a chunk of time missing between when he's with one scouting party, and then with the other. He also didn't do much to cover it up very well: The most critical piece of evidence is still there-Adolin's knife, which, being the side knife of the heir to a princedom, is bound to be pretty recognizable, or at least fancy. At the very least Dalinar should be able to recognize his sons knife. There's also the strange scraping on the wall which could be linked to a Shardblade being used to scrape. That could narrow the suspect field down considerably. If oathkeeper is found, then you've got another puzzle. Sadeas wasn't killed for the Blade, so it would have to be someone who wants him dead. The Kholins have motive in spades. Finally there's the cuffs. Adolin is obsessed with fashion. Even though he wears the uniform all the time, it's described as more stylish than a regular uniform. So how will he explain the missing cuffs? He didn't go straight back to change, and I doubt there's too many more uniforms for him to have. I doubt a lot of their supplies from the excursion made its way onto the Oathgate, and they'd be too worried about more important supplies to worry about bringing it with them from the Shattered Plains warcamps. I'd be surprised if one of the uniforms wasn't destroyed in the battle on the plateaus earlier as well. Beyond that, who else is everyone going to assume it is? Adolin itches to attack Sadeas every time they come into contact with each other. It's only the presence of others that stops him. Usually Renarin, but even Amaram once. There's also that challenge that was issued to Sadeas from Adolin. If I was starting the investigation, he's my prime suspect right off the bat. Who else would you investigate when someone had just issued a challenge to fight to the death to your murder victim? The Alethi aren't very bright if they can't figure this one out.

Be honest...how many hours of my life am I going to lose to reading these? I've already logged quite a few lol. I think 085 is my favorite.

Dahn is the lighteyes rank. Lirin is second nahn. Also, Lirin didn't study surgery in Kharbranth, he was there as a courier. WoK 10 Stories of Surgeons

He did something underhanded and unethical, but he is an incredibly moral person. Of course he's going to feel guilty over it. Especially since it was done during the last moments of a friend's life. As for whether it's immoral, that depends on your perceptions, and according to the different philosophies we've been shown they have on Roshar, what he did was right, and as justified as Jasnah killing the footpads. Sometimes you're faced with a hard choice that leaves you feeling guilty. I've already argued the legality point to death. If it had been illegal according to their laws, there'd be no getting around it. Alethi law doesn't address that. It's legal, ergo he's not a thief. From what I've seen on the thread, most people's problem with Lirin is he should have trusted Wistiow to give them the spheres. Ok, so where does that leave Lirin and his family? Personally, knowing exactly the type of person Roshone is, I think nothing would change for the better. Wistiow died before becoming lucid, the sphere's don't become Lirin's and he loses the betrothal for Kaladin, both of which were why he could afford to not charge for surgery. Roshone shows up, blames Lirin for Wistiow's death, then takes a quick trip to the surgery to grab the spheres, which Lirin has no official claim over. Now, Lirin can no longer operate as easily, or as flexibly as he used to, and the whole town suffers, although Lirin and his family live more comfortably than they would had he taken the spheres. A few months down the road, and Roshone goes hunting with his son. Rillar dies. Lirin tries to explain the rules of surgery, and even makes the point that he might have been able to save him if he had the spheres. He also makes the point that with those spheres, Kaladin could get sent to Kharbranth to become a better surgeon who could've saved Rillar. Roshone doesn't listen and blames Lirin for Rillar's death. Roshone calls his cousin into town, and enacts his revenge on Lirin for being unable to save his son. Tien gets conscripted, and Kaladin follows. Roshone took a dislike to Hearthstone, and to Lirin immediately on arriving. The very first thing Roshone does on arriving at Hearthstone is completely absolve himself of any guilt relating to his relegation to Hearthstone, and he dumps it on Lirin, before he ever gets a whiff of stolen spheres. Roshone has already cause the deaths of two innocent people. Why do we assume that things would be any different had Lirin not taken the spheres? Rillar would still die, and Roshone would place the blame at Lirin's feet. The only thing I see changing is the amount of satisfaction that Roshone gets at enacting his revenge. There's been several posts defending Roshone because his actions were legal, even though of absolutely vile moral value. Lirin's actions are legal-if questionable, and are justified by in-world morality.

Greater soulcasters than you have tried my friend. I am a stick

Edit: have my computer, filling out the whole post, and rewriting the post I had. If a strong case could be made, Roshone would make it, but he didn't, and he even says Lirin would win an inquest. This can only lead me to believe that what he did is not illegal. Unethical, but not illegal. As for Lirin sounding guilty, well yeah. Lirin is a good man, with one of the strongest moral compasses I've seen in a literary character, and he was being underhanded. Of course he is going to feel guilty about it. Heck, I feel guilty and justify myself for much simpler things that aren't illegal or underhanded. I'd be more inclined to denounce him if he didn't feel guilty. Laral is a bit strange in that, but I think it's because Wistiow had told her about the possible match, and she thought it would only be ok if Kaladin was a light eyes. But I'm also not going to overly analyze the actions and thoughts of a teenage girl. Either way, they got along fine, and were close. Considering Shallan's father's reaction when he catches her drawing darkeyes, I'm inclined to say the two don't mix their youth very often. Roshone wants the spheres. He's broke from his political blundering, and he's trying to find easy money. Roshone doesn't care one bit about the law, and even if the situation wasn't as suspicious, and Wistiow had stamped the forms in front of his scribes, I bet you Roshone would still chase after him. Lirin is also being accused of being a thief by his own son at the time, and he did something that was slightly underhanded, so yes, Lirin doens't think what he did is ethical. But it was the right thing to do, and he knew that as well, which is why he did it. During my cursory rereads of the flashbacks today, I don't recall seeing as much evidence to show Lirin was trying to live his dreams through Kaladin as you claim is there. Can you find some quotes to support that? Also, from the description you write, it sounds like Lirin is trying to raise his son to be a moral person, what's so wrong about that? Kaladin is not going to gain any status by becoming a surgeon. He would've by marrying Wistiow, but that seems more a convenience factor than anything. Lirin didn't suddenly move to another town to chase down another Brightlord's daughter for his son to marry. Here's the quote you mention: Yes, he starts off by saying he could be a better surgeon than he was, but look at how he finishes it. Don't waste that on killing. That's the main point to this conversation-don't become a soldier, you can't kill to protect. Not, "I could've been a better surgeon, so now you will become better than I could be." I see the encouragement less about Lirin's past failures (which I see very little evidence of) and more about Kaladin's absolutely incredible potential. They already are at the second nahn, so how much status could they gain anyways? This is the wise father telling the headstrong youth that the glories of battle are overstated. It isn't the regretful failure hoping to give meaning to his life through that of his son. Again, what's wrong with wanting what's best for your children? Every parent is "guilty" of this. When Kal asks Hesina about them trying to marry him off to Laral, she just responds "it was a possibility." Not exactly forcing the prestige and lifestyle onto him. Lirin also didn't move to find another available lighteyed girl for Kaladin as soon as Laral became unavailable. No, Kaladin doesn't need to go to Kharbranth in the same way that a perfect student doesn't need to go to the best college. But if you have the potential, why would you waste it on sub par training? Again, I have read absolutely no evidence to show that Lirin is regretful of his past, and is trying to live vicariously through Kaladin. You'll have to find some evidence from the books for me, because the only time Lirin even mentions his training I saw is the quote I already provided which ends with him saying there's not use living with regret. The only line I could find linking Lirin to Kharbranth is not dialogue, but just background information about how Lirin didn't go to Kharbranth, but instead went there as a courier. Lirin is a surgeon. Lirin is a good surgeon. Lirin is living in place he wanted to live, he has a wonderful family. What could possibly cause him to have regrets? What other reasons could he have for acquiring the spheres? Well, he's been living in this town under the same city lord for almost his whole life, and he doesn't charge for his medical services. Why would he risk that? Well, there's the donations from the townspeople that keep them fed, but there was also the agreement with Wistiow that would provide for his son when the time came. Unfortunately, Wistiow died before that happened. I don't understand why it is so hard to believe the maybe, just maybe, Lirin was telling the truth. Also, it would be very difficult to move without any money whatsoever, so even if he did move, he would need to take the spheres with him because he spent his life dedicated to a town which did not take care of him back. I didn't miss it. The same day that Tien gives Kaladin the horse is the day they are both conscripted into the army. It is ridiculous to expect Lirin to have known that Tien had this gift without any signs of it, so saying that it would help Tien is a moot point. Yes, we know that, but there is absolutely no way that Lirin could know that. Tien was gone as soon as the talen manifested, before Lirin even knew about it. In fact, it's possible that Lirin never found out about his previously unknown talent, considering he had maybe two hours and twenty minutes between when he showed Kaladin that horse and was marched off to war. Maybe if Lirin had seen it, that point could be made, but Lirin can't be judged for that when there was no signs of his talent manifested before Tien was taken away from them. So basically, Lirin should have turned tail and run, abondoning the town to Roshone, and leaving the townspeople without a surgeon, basically solidifying his guilt in all of their minds, and ruining their reputation in the place Lirin has dedicated his entire life to? I don't buy that. As far as securing in income, that's the whole point! Roshone could've ruined free medical care for the whole town. All Lirin had to do was decide to start charging, but he didn't, because that's the kind of person he was. He didn't even charge Roshone, because that's the kind of person he was. Lirin never became spiteful, he never tried to strike back. Lirin probably could've afforded Kal's income if he had been charging the town the whole time, but he hadn't because he expected Wistiow to help. As I stated above, the Tien point cannot be made, because there's no way possible that Lirin could have known that. This does not detract from his character, nor does it make him more responsible. As for reasons unknown, do you not feel an affinity for your hometown? If you do, now imagine that every single person from the town that you know, you had a hand in making their lives better. You healed them. You cared for their parents, them, and their children. Then a rich person moves in and starts making everyone you know miserable, and has a grudge against you. You wouldn't feel any obligation to the town or the people that you had been caring for for years? I found a quote that definitively shows it was not illegal, out of Roshone's own mouth: Not illegal. Fishy yes. Way way way way WAY less fishy than conscripting a young boy into the army for revenge, and forcing a teenage girl to marry you for money. We have way more evidence to say there was an agreement than to say there wasn't! If we have text stating that a thing existed, and no text saying it didn't, how can you say there's no firm evidence? Given the abundance of text that states there was an agreement, and the absence of text stating that one absolutely did not exist, in order to say that there wasn't an agreement, Lirin has to be a liar, which destroys all of his character development to be a moral person. I'd like to go back and revisit your refutation of the philosophies as well: Purpose-I still see no evidence of Lirin trying to live through Kaladin, and no real proof that moving would have helped his family. His intent was for his son to have a better life. This philosophy states that actions cannot be evil, it is the intentions behind them that are evil. This exists independently from any secondary motives Lirin might have had. The action is justified. Ideals-Kaladin is already a high enough Nahn to marry into a lighteyed family, since he is the second Nahn, regardless of whether he becomes a surgeon or not. Regardless Lirin is trying to remove the evil of sickness and injury from the world by having his son become a surgeon. The action is justified. Aspiration-Your point doesn't refute the philosophy at all! Objective is weighed against methods. The objective to have Kaladin become a surgeon. That is a worthy goal, and far outweighs the small ethical matter. The action is justified. It is irrelevant in this philosophy as to whether or not something would happen. The philosophy considers the goals and the actions and no other variables.

It's still not impossible for him to miss it. I've been through both books multiple times and never made that connection until you pointed it out. But I agree, very odd. But I thought the Amaram arc was incredibly disappointing throughout the whole book. In my opinion, it's the one flaw in WoR.

Amaram does say cousin more than once in the flashback. That's odd Kaladin didn't comment on that, but then again, he kept his involvement with Roshone quiet as well. Kaladin would have needed to explain the whole situation in Hearthstone to bring it into the scene, and Dalinar was already quite fed up with Kaladin. Kaladin had already been quite insubordinate, and further bringing up Roshone couldn't help the situation.

Well....ummm......you see...*ahem*.....ahh....hmmm...there's this natural process....ahhh....nevermind.

Other than Kaladin was in jail and Elhokar wanted to have him executed, and he had just learned that Dalinar was linked to Roshone. That seems like a lot of good in world reasons to miss a small part of a conversation you're involved in. We don't know he actually falsified them, Wisitow most likely actually stamped them, and in that way they aren't falsified. Not thievery there. Also, we see this from Kaladin's perspective. Just as we know that Wisitow said that, we don't know that he didn't. I'm willing to take Lirin's word at face value on this. He has no reason to lie to Kaladin. In fact, Lirin says that on the day Wistiow died. Considering Laral's attitudes toward Kaladin, I'd say she was pretty keen on getting married too. We also don't know if there are any laws about someone being in a sound state of mind in Alethkar. Considering their brutal laws already, I very much doubt they had the foresight for this. All it would take to prove he wasn't in sound mind would be to ask his servants and scribes, who were present. If that were an issue, than Roshone would have had ample proof. This leads me to believe that there are no laws decrying this, and that Lirin then broke no laws. He was underhanded, and was slightly unethical, but nothing illegal, which is the same reasoning being used to defend Roshone. I think you're interpreting this wrong. Lirin is not stealing the spheres to secure status for himself, or even for his son. Sure he wants him to become a surgeon, but by no means is Kaladin being forced to: Sure, he wants Kaladin to become a surgeon. Sure he wanted him to marry Laral. A parent always wants what's best for their children. But Kaladin seemed happy with Laral. Why is it so wrong to want better things for your children? If I understand the social ranking correctly, Lirin wouldn't have gained any status anyways, just Kaladin. Again, you're assuming things about Lirin that I, and what we're given in the text, disagree with. Wistiow seemed to be a good man. He gave the huge amount of spheres to be used indefinitely in surgery. Why do we have any reason to doubt that Wistiow did not want to have Kaladin in Hearthstone. Wistiow was ancient, so he probably knew Lirin since he was a boy. Lirin cared for the people of his town, and Lirin's son was quite close to his daughter. Lirin loves his town, and he loves his family, and I see everything that he has been doing as an attempt to help both of them. He isn't sending Kal to be a surgeon because of Laral either, otherwise he wouldn't still plan on sending them after Wistiow's death. He knew Laral would be engaged to Rillar, and then Roshone after Rillar's death. If it was about status and marrying a lighteyes, that's the end of the line right there. But that's not the reason why. The reason is a noble one, here it is right from Lirin's mouth: Why would Lirin return to Hearthstone if he was obsessed with prestige? It's hard to gain status in a tiny town, very hard indeed. Why wouldn't he stay in Kharbranth? Why wouldn't he move somewhere with more Lighteyes? Lirin isn't obessed with prestige, he's obsessed with Hearthstone. Why would he leave Hearthstone when Wistiow died? This is his hometown, he's lived there basically his whole life. He acquired those spheres to send his son to learn, because his son had potential. More potential than Lirin had, and he didn't want that wasted. He also wanted someone to carry on his tradition of caring for his town. Lirin is a successful surgeon. He chose to come back to Hearthstone. I don't see any evidence of childhood regrets. Until Roshone showed up, his life was practically perfect. He also is not forcing Kaladin to become a surgeon, as the quote earlier shows. The option to marry Laral disappeared before Kal could be sent to Kharbranth, but Lirin still wants to send him, and still wants him to come back to Hearthstone (unless he's heavily drinking.) Once again, I think you're misrepresenting his intentions. What you're suggesting strongly contradicts with the character development we've seen for Lirin: Kal's potential would be wasted without the spheres. I doubt there are many scholarships on Roshar, and without those spheres, Kaladin cannot become as great a surgeon as he obviously has the potential to be. If anything, that's Lirin's one regret, is that he couldn't be better than he is, good enough to help more people, as evidence in this quote: As far as Tien's talent, well, there hadn't been enough time to manifest that before he was sent to war, and even then it didn't seem promising: That's the first we hear of Tien working as a carpenter, and it's later in that chapter that Tien gets sent to war. There was no way for them to forsee either Tien being sent to war, or his talent in carpentry before the effect. Besides, TIen didn't want to move either: How would leaving the town had served them? Lirin would have to find a town in need of a surgeon, and then whose to say that the townsfolk would take care of them like Hearthstone had before Roshone had he continued to give his services for free? I don't see it as him serving his dreams. He's trying to help Hearthstone, and he's trying to help Kaladin. By taking those sphere's and using them for Kaladin's education, it prevents the spheres from becoming Roshone's, and he certainly wouldn't spend it on the town. Even if Roshone did spend those speheres on Hearthstone, what could he possibly do with them that would produce more good than a master surgeon that doesn't charge for his services? Lirin's objective was to have a master surgeon trained to take his place, to continue to serve the people of the town he loved. What goal could be worthier than that? I don't see Lirin's actions as immoral, and if they were illegal, he'd be tried, hands down. But there's no law preventing what he did in Alethkar. It's illegal by today's standards, but not by theirs, and even so, from the information we're given, there's no reason to doubt that Wistiow wouldn't have given those spheres.