Wolven

23 hours ago, Calyx said:

I imagine it would be someone strong who disagrees with him very often, at least at first. 

Jasnah actually comes to mind, though I doubt (and don't think) that will be a thing. 

It probably won't, but it is the one that I am really hoping for.  I just really like the idea of Jasnah and Kaladin.

For one thing, they fit in the way that, Kaladin cares to much and Jasnah maybe doesn't care quite enough.  About individual people that is.  They could really balance that out in each other.

I don't really see the age thing being that much of a problem, and as for the fact that Jasnah is now queen.  Well...I don't think that would necessarily be a problem forever.  I have this thought that if any character is going to become a world hopper from Stormlight Archive, it's going to be Jasnah.

Again though, probably not going to happen at all.

9 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Our only Sons of Honor character (Amaram) is dead, and we have not really seen other members. The Desolation has arrived, and some Heralds are moving (Nale, Ishar, Taln, Ash), and so part one of their objective is basically fulfilled. Will we get more from them? Will Restares, or someone else, emerge from the shadows. Will they be allies? Enemies? Or are they insignificant now?

What is the future of the Sons of Honor?

I am not so sure we haven't seen other members of the Sons of Honor.  I am of the belief that the ardents that excommunicated Dalinar may have been members.  I remember Dalinar thinking something along the lines that their clothing seemed much more ornate than they should be.  

18 hours ago, straits said:

But if a man like Dalinar can redeem himself, why can't Moash at some point? 

What Dalinar did is of course a thousand times worse than what Moash did.  The big difference here though is accountability.  Even as Dalinar was destroying the Rift he knew it was wrong, it was to much.  And after it happens the only way he has of silencing the screams is through drink.  I think that would have been the case even if Evi had lived.  He knew that he was a piece of chull dung.

When he goes to the Nightwatcher he doesn't ask to have his memories and thus his pain taken away from him.  He didn't ask for a magical washing away of his sins.  He asked for forgiveness.

Moash though fully believes himself to be in the right, doesn't think there was anything wrong with what he did or what he's doing.  More than that he allowed Odium to take away his pain and his accountability.  As long as that's the case there is no hope for redemption for him.

I don't think he's strong enough to accept that though.  He lacks Kaladin's and Dalinar's strength of will.

Hmmm, makes me wonder if by the end of the Stormlight Archive, the humans and the Singers come to some kind of accord, where the humans give the Singers their world back, and then move on to try and take their own world back.  Was their original world completely destroyed beyond any salvation?  I don't know how much has been said about that.  

I only wonder because even in books, most myths and legends are based on some kind of fact, and there has to be something that the idea of retaking the Tranquiline Halls came from.

I don't think his reintroduction was rushed.  End of the world battle and everything.  His acceptance after the fact though seems to be rushed.  Not so sure I would just accept my Radiant leader being protected by the guy who murdered his brother.  

Also, Perrin Aybara was my favorite WoT character.  So there.  

16 hours ago, Rainier said:

If we want to talk about storming piles of rust (mixing shardic metaphors here) who take no responsibility for their actions, we need to talk about Szeth, not Moash. If we want to talk about vicious unstoppable killers, we need to talk about Dalinar, not Moash. If we want to talk about traitors and betrayers, we need to talk about Taravangian, not Moash.

Moash is just a man. A broken man doing what he can, caught up in worlds beyond his ken. Odium was the one to finally help him achieve what he wanted, and he still felt empty afterwards. Now that he's killed Jezrien and taken up his sword, I think we'll have a better idea of what kind of person Moash is, and what his motivations will be now that his quest for vengeance has been fulfilled. He's being manipulated, but I don't understand the hate for him. He's a great character and a great man (yes, petty revenge and defection included), which is why he protects the singers who are being treated badly.

I want to reemphasize that main difference between Moash and Kaladin is the level of nihilism. Kaladin tries to not care, but can't help but caring. Moash, finally, has been worn down, broken, and doesn't care. Their similarities makes Moash much more sympathetic to me, and much more interesting as an antagonist in the coming books.

Szeth not taking responsibility for his actions?  I don't think I can really agree with that.  This is a guy who absolutely despises himself for what he has done.  Yes, he justified it because he had no choice, and that's wrong, but he fully admits that what he was doing was wrong.  Eventually though he does admit that the oathstone was just a stupid rock.  Moash however fully believes himself to be in the right.

Also, when Szeth is finding that he is truly enjoying himself during the Skybreaker test, he immediately comes down on himself, not believing that he deserves to enjoy anything.  So I would say that Szeth at least takes personal responsibility for the things he does.  That is why his book is probably the one that I am more interested for than any of the others that are coming up.

Moash is a great character, but that doesn't mean that he can't be hated.  You can hate a great villain.  Can't agree that he is a great man though.  Just because he tried to protect those Singers doesn't make him a great man.  Not with the things he does afterwards.  Also, let's not forget that one of Odium's things is taking away people's pain and taking away their responsibility for the things that they have done.  That's how he gets you. 

19 hours ago, Ookla the Obtuse said:

Continuing on that line of reasoning, yes, from our point of view, he was. From the other side, Elhokar was the leader of an enemy strike force kidnapping the crown prince from the Queen. Immediately after Elhokar's death, Gavinor is taken up by the Queen's Guard again. Corrupted by Odium or not, doesn't Aesudan have a right to protect her child from kidnapping?

I know Odium complicates the whole affair, but just because the narrative is framed with our protagonists in mind doesn't make this as simple as we want it all to be. 

I have a hard time believing that Aesudan has much of a right to anything at all.  She is possibly guilty of child neglect and absolutely guilty of child endangerment.  

24 minutes ago, Rainier said:

 

But Moash earned the right to give that salute when he went back for Dalinar and the rest of his army. 

Yes, he did.  But then he lost that right when he tried to kill the man who gave him his life back, and offered him a purpose besides simple, and ultimately, unsatisfying revenge.

One of my favorite moments, and probably my favorite line was when Amaram and Kaladin are fighting and Amaram keeps claiming that he made Kaladin who he is, that he forged him and:

Kaladin floated downward toward him.  "Ten spears go to battle", he whispered, "and nine shatter.  Did that war forge the one that remained?  No Amaram.  All the war did was identify the spear that would not break".

Such a great line.  And I have to mention Kaladin and Jasnah's brief exchange.  They snap at each other and then she gives that smile.  I realize that the two of them getting together is still extremely unlikely, but that little exchange let me keep hoping. 

On another note, I just have to say, that in my first reading I didn't recognize all of the truly epic moments...until I read this threat.  Talking about these books with all of you like minded, passionate fans, helps me appreciate more of the book than I might have done on my own.  You guys are great!

I really loved it, so 9/10 for me.  Phenomenal book.  The only reason it's not a 10/10 is because your scale says that means it's the best book ever and I like Words of Radiance just a little bit more.

There are some really some good secrets revealed in this one, and yet, there are still bigger secrets that are yet to come.  It sucks that I have finished the book and have to wait another two years for the next one. 

The only thing that I can think of is that he has to learn to be able to make sacrifices.  Something like, "I will sacrifice the one to protect the many".  I can see why Kaladin of all people would have a lot of trouble with that one.  

I do believe that whatever it is, that he knows what it is and really is terrified by it.

On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 1:35 PM, Ookla the Effervescent said:

Voidbringers be like:

 

In all seriousness, I'm interested to see where it goes.

Hopefully, it goes with him being Odium's tool, until Odium grows tired of him and tries to have him disposed. Then Moash slinks back to Kaladin, and Kaladin kills him.

I'll have to reevaluate my opinion on a reread, but I didn't really like Moash's chapters. I see why they were in there, but they were the only ones in the whole book I was uninterested in and tempted to skip. I do hope Brandon puts a little more feeling into him in the next book, just to make it a bit more believable. It wasn't handled 100% to my satisfaction. But again, I'm interested in seeing where it goes. Maybe it's redeemable (the plot, not Moash, he's crem).

 

I thought his chapters were believable.  I think right now Moash is feeling really numb about everything.  He doesn't really know what to think or what to feel, so he doesn't really think or feel anything.  Exiled from the only people who cared about him after betraying Kaladin, seeing his new friends killed, taken in by the enemy and flipping to their side of things.  I can understand why there's not a whole of feeling in his chapters.  

Very interesting character, but ohhhh man I want to punch him in the face.  Elhokar was just starting to grow on me!  I am really eager to see some interactions between him and Venli considering how they were complete opposites from each other in how their stories are playing out.  

When it comes time for him to die though, if he does, I hope it's Kaladin, and I hope he says something like this to Moash, "Elhokar was a better man than you".

I don't think Adolin makes the story weaker at all though.  He is kind of a grounding force for some of the caracters, and I think this story especially, with so many broken people wandering around, really needs that.  

Plus, there are still seven more books yet to get through yet.  I am absolutely interested where this thing with Maya is going to go.  The potential is still there for Adolin to get deeper, but even if he doesn't, the story isn't going to suffer for it.

If you ask me, Adolin is likely a grounding force for Sanderson as well.  I can't imagine what he goes through mentally and emotionally writing so many broken and vulnerable characters.

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 10:16 AM, mariapapadia said:

OHHHH! Here is where my biases will explode, but I hope not with Moash. Though I am sure they will meet again. I just HATE Moash sooooo much. He is well written and I can see why some people would find him interesting, but I just despise him with all my being. The more time it passes, the more I hate him.

Sorry for this, I'll just stop

 

@Ookla the Heraldic ohh! yes, that's what I thought, I just interpreted Toaster's post wrong thinking Venli would get to be one. Offtopic: It's hard to quote people, when everyone has Ookla in their name

 

I am right there with you.  When the time comes for him to get offed, I hope it's Kaladin, and right before he sends Moash on his way I hope he says something like, "Elhokar was a better man than you".  Because he so totally was.  Man it sucks that Elhokar died just when I was starting to really like him.

I spotted her as Vivenna as well, and I don't usually make those kinds of connections.    I was a little surprised that the other characters didn't have more to ask her about being a world hopper.

I don't like or dislike Adolin.  He really is a very simplistic character.  But...that doesn't really bother me.  There is already a ton of very complex and interesting characters in this series.  There's gotta be at least a few who are a little more simple.  

I can understand why some might not like Shallan, she's not one of my favorites, but a badly written character?  I don't think that at all.  She is exactly what I would expect someone who had gone through what she had gone through to be.  She was having to be different people from the time she was a child.  Her identities are fascinating to read and I am definitely curious to see how she ends up.    

Is her humor a little cringe inducing at times, yes, but at times I find her funny.  Not nearly as much so as I find Lopen. but for Shallan it's clearly a defense mechanism and it fits.

I am glad that she chose Adolin over Kaladin though.  She fits better with the princeling, and it let's me hold out some small, tiny iota of hope for Jasnah and Kaladin.  Probably not gonna happen but...ya never know.  

Yeah, I agree with Unodus. Blowing someone "to oblivion" is a somewhat common expression when referring to using guns and explosives.

I agree as well, but I just think it is so awesome, and a little crazy, that we all look for even the tiniest clues in these books, that we attempt to deconstruct even fairly common phrases like that one.  

Hidy ho all,

 

I'm not done with the book yet, I picked it up yesterday, and am up to chapter 12 in the audible version so far.

 

But I have to say, I love Steris in this novel now.  In Shadows of self, she was starting to get out of her shell, but you really start seeing her come into her own here.

 

Does anyone else love Steris now?  Or am I the only one?

Oh yes.  I started to start feeling for her at the end of 'Alloy of Law', then even more so in 'Shadows of Self' when she suggested to Wax they make a more interesting entrance during that party.  At the end of that book was when I truly fell in love with her though when instead of trying to talk to Wax, trying to tell him everything was going to be okay, she was just there for him and let him mourn.  Not only that, but that super meticulous nature really grew on me over the first two books and she really does start to feel truly delightful.  

In 'Bands of Mourning' she really does come into her own though and her parts in the book were truly incredible.  She truly thinks of just about every possible eventuality and plans accordingly.  It might have seemed so simple but putting that medallion in her notebook was really pivotal to the outcome of the book.  

I am really glad that Brandon didn't go the way other writers likely would have and had Wax hook up with Marasi who initially seemed like she was the better match.  But she's not, she's really not. 

Steris is so much more than a seven in that usefulness scale of her's.  So much more.  

I have not read Shadows of Self yet, so please no spoilers for book 5.

 

Why are there no more mistborn in the Wax and Wayne series? Has it just been bred out? If so, I imagine it would become exceedingly rare but not impossible. Is there a confirmed answer or just speculation?

 

Also, why were there no ferrings or twinborn in the original trilogy?

Not sure about the first question, but the reason that there were no twinborn was because the Lord Ruler controlled the breeding of the Terris people with an iron first, not allowing them to intermingle with anyone who could be born with Allomantic powers.  He didn't want to take the chance of creating an equal.

I think there is still a good sized chunk of Harmony that is still very much Sazed.  The conversation he has with Wax shows that, in my opinion.  

He has the influence of both Preservation and Ruin, and no doubt they have changed him, but not so much as he would have if he only had the influence of one or the other.  They don't cancel each other out by any means, but I think they would balance each other, leaving his personality for the most part intact.

Aye, thats a good list of wonderful moments. Sazed's ascension blew me away as I didn't see it coming until right before it happened. Same with Vin's earring, i totally missed it!

 

Think my favorite battle is pretty easily Kelsier's fight with the Inquisitor in the square. Followed by Wax at the wedding in Alloy

I gotta say that my favorite battle would be Wax, Wayne, and Marasi against the Vanishers.  When Wax flattens that building and then makes that absolutely ridiculously incredible shot to take down the thug, my jaw dropped on both occassions, on both of my read throughs of the book.

I am pretty much the same as you.  After Jordan died and Sanderson took over, and I read the first book in that series that he wrote, I was really impressed, and so I decided to check out his own original work.  Boy was I ever happy that I did so.  Fell in love with Mistborn within the first few chapters.  Read the rest of them and when Stormlight Archive came out I was even more blown away.  By the time I got around to reading Elantris and Warbreaker, Brandon Sanderson had become my favorite all time writer.  

I have read a lot of the greats.  Tolkien, Jordan, Martin, Salvatore, Weiss and Hickman, but Sanderson tops them all for me.

My favorite part of the Mistborn world is definitely Allomancy.  It is the most original and fun system of magic that I have ever read, and in the new Mistborn books I love the different combinations of Allomancy and Feruchemy.  Such well done systems, so much fun to read.

I loved that book too.

I always liked the kandra and I was so exited when they got to play such a big role.

 

Wax and Streris getting so close was refreshing because it was so diffrent from a typical lovestory.

For me it's those kind of things that keep Sandersons books from getting predictable.

Am I the only one who was seriously ceept out by the image of wax making out with a kandra? That plot twist disturbed my deeply. Almost as much as finding out that Rons rat in Harry Potter has always been a weird old murderer...

I hadn't thought about it before, but now that you actually mention it.  

Ya know I wouldn't mind a prequel short story from Paalm's point of view from when they were out in the roughs, to get an idea of what it was about Wax that made her fall in love him.