Mr Maker

On 03/12/2020 at 9:20 AM, CogitoErgoArclo said:

My best guess for for the shattered plains is the splintering of Honor, or the capture of Ba-Ado-Mishram. 
But yeah, I definitely think they’re connected. 
 

Edit: had forgotten the plains were shattered at Aharietiem, so the pattern is most likely due to use of a Dawnshard, like on Ashyn but on a smaller scale. Or maybe caused by Ba-Ado-Mishram, and one of the reasons the radiants chose to capture her/them later. 

Perhaps stormseat shattered because because that city spren was unmade into ba-ado-mishram. The shattering may have been an unintended consequence, and the cymatic destruction pattern caused by the Rhythm of the investiture balance of that made up the spren. 

Moash Deadeye ;-)

I think the spy is another of shallan’s personalities that we have not met (and that shallan, radiant and veil don’t remember / recognise). 

I also think the assassin mraize sent is a 5th personality of shallan that surfaced momentarily to administer the poison. 

This is why Ialai is so resigned when she sees shallan.

It’s all shallan. She doesn’t realise she is spying on herself and that she’s being played / playing all sides against the middle. 

5 minutes ago, Extesian said:

I'd like to think that as well. But he would not. 

 

Blast it - I thought I was on to something. The WOB on this is very interesting though! Thanks.

If Nightblood was unsheathed and dropped, I’d like to think he would just consume everything, eventually cause a black hole, and cause the universe to collapse into a singularity. 

Another interesting thing here is the mention of the grand temple above.

On 3/8/2018 at 9:55 AM, TNTman20 said:

"Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides apiece, toward the grand temple above."

• Are we talking Urithiru as the temple?
• Are these the steps (that supposedly give access to the city), and are they located below the corridor accessed from the gemstone pillar room?
• Is the gemstone pillar room a temple?
• Did 'he' use the Dawnshard to bind and capture the Sibling?
• Was 'he' a very naughty boy?

Must read TWOK again!

Oathbringer is Dalinar's book
It's also his blade with a hook
We learned 'bout his wife
And all kinds of strife –
Memories Cultivation just took

Slowly he began to recall
The things that caused him to fall
The death of poor Evi
The Thrill, fire and fury
Designs, to make him a thrall

For Odium was always right there
Pushing for Dalinar's despair
But the pain that was sown
Just helped him to grow
And the trap, failed to ensnare

Instead Dalinar, he took the great step
And accepted the thoughts in his head
Three realms he did merge
Stormlight he did splurge
Powered Radiants, to fight in his stead

Odium was nothing but shocked
To see Dalinar acting his boss
He quickly vacated the scene
Upon hearing "Unity!"
Scared he was going to be mocked

Then Dalinar, he learned how to read
And started, writing at speed
About his sad tale
How not to fail
And putting The Thrill in a bead.

You have probably all realised this long ago, but the Part Titles for all the 3 Stormlight books form Keteks (as well as giving the theme to the parts themselves).

Sanderson is just so cool. So many little details, so easy to miss. I just can’t fathom how he does it!

The Keteks:

The Way of Kings

Part 1: Above Silence

Part 2: The Illuminating Storms

Part 3: Dying

Part 4: Storm’s Illumination

Part 5 The Silence Above

>>

Above Silence, The Illuminating Storms –Dying– Storm’s Illumination, The Silence Above

Words of Radiance

Part 1: Alight

Part 2: Wind’s Approach

Part 3: Deadly

Part 4: The Approach

Part 5: Winds Alight

>>

Alight, Wind’s Approach –Deadly– The Approach, Winds Alight

Oathbringer

Part 1:  United

Part 2: New Beginnings Sing

Part 3: Defying Truth, Love Truth

Part 4: Defy! Sing Beginnings!

Part 5: New Unity

>>

United, New Beginnings Sing –Defying Truth, Love Truth– Defy! Sing Beginnings! New Unity

10 hours ago, Wreith said:

I think they're Parshendi or possibly Dawnsingers (who themselves may be Parshendi by some theories).

This largely because of Rlain's description of his gods as

 

10 hours ago, WildSpeculation said:

Oh double post because I like your theory as well! This makes sense when combined with the connection I was trying to make in my post. The Unmade were the 'anti-heralds' of the Parshendi. When the Bondsmith broke the Listeners and made them Parshmen, it caused Re-Shephir to lose that piece of her.

 

I can't wait to see what version is true! That is part of what I love about these books!

I agree with both of you. In support of this I posted my thoughts on another thread. I have quoted them below:

Quote

Apologies if WOB or any of this has already been proven incorrect or suggested elsewhere on the forum.

1. Dawnshards = original Adonalsium spren (on Roshar – homeworld to a native population of Listeners)

2. Dawnsingers were Listeners bonded/fused with the Dawnshards, the leaders of the Listener population, and responsible for creating the Dawnchant.

3. All was well until Adonalsium splits, and then humans, the three shards, and conflict arrived.

4. While still in possession of their faculties the Shards make a bargain (much like on Scadrial) to create some balance on the Roshar. This leads to the Oathpact.

4. Oathpact is formed, modelled loosely how the local spren-magic system works, and on imported ideas of chivalry/knights etc, and most drastically perhaps, this Oathpact overrides the rights of Roshar's native Listener population. Agreement is made for Odium to corrupt/break dawnshards+singers, investing into them – creating Unmade. Honor invests equally into making Honor-blades, giving them to humans.

5. This effectively usurps the native listener population, wrecked their futures, warped their gods, puts them between a rock and a hard place, and turned them into tools that can be controlled by Odium.

6. Native spren were either warped by odium, stopped actively bonding with listeners, or the listeners did not bond (and forgot how to) due to fear of being unwillingly taken over by a bad spren. The honor/cultivation spren then created the nahel bond instead to mimic the pre-existing listener-spren relationship with humans, and the surges and blades of the Heralds.

7. The Recreance is caused by discovering the knowledge that the world actually belonged to the listeners, and that Odium, Honor and Cultivation (and by association their various spren) overthrew the Listeners for the greater good in fight against Odium. As knights radiant they are actively a part of this guilty un-honorable act, and feel it is conflict with their oaths - so they immediately break them.

 

Notes and more speculation.

Gavilar suggests that he will return the Parshedi gods (now Unmade) – they don’t like this as they remember enough to know they loose free will. They do not know that they are actually their old corrupted leaders the Dawnsingers, and have little chance of free will in a world that is set up against them.

The reason we only know of 9 Unmade is perhaps because when the Heralds go into damnation between desolations, the Unmade disappear/go there too. Now that the last Herald has broken in damnation, and returned, perhaps so will the 10th Unmade. 

Or perhaps the Unmade were seperate humans aligned to the 10 different areas of Roshar as other have suggested Or something else!

4 minutes ago, paperstones said:

We know Ashyn had a catastrophe and now the population lives in isolated floating cities. I bet the Shattering lead to this catastrophe and caused the migration humans to Roshar.

I didn't know about the floating cities from Ashyn – cool!

3 hours ago, Andy92 said:

I feel like this seems pretty obvious/strongly hinted at. I know some people think Odium created them, but I think what Odium did was take something that already existed and corrupted it. Maybe the 9 were humans or listeners, or maybe they were some sort of spren. But I do think they were corrupted creations, not brand new creations. 

I agree with this, and had generally felt the whole situation might pan out something like this:

Apologies if WOB or any of this has already been proven incorrect or suggested elsewhere on the forum.

1. Dawnshards = original Adonalsium spren (on Roshar – homeworld to a native population of Listeners)

2. Dawnsingers were Listeners bonded/fused with the Dawnshards, the leaders of the Listener population, and responsible for creating the Dawnchant.

3. All was well until Adonalsium splits, and then humans, the three shards, and conflict arrived.

4. While still in possession of their faculties the Shards make a bargain (much like on Scadrial) to create some balance on the Roshar. This leads to the Oathpact.

4. Oathpact is formed, modelled loosely how the local spren-magic system works, and on imported ideas of chivalry/knights etc, and most drastically perhaps, this Oathpact overrides the rights of Roshar's native Listener population. Agreement is made for Odium to corrupt/break dawnshards+singers, investing into them – creating Unmade. Honor invests equally into making Honor-blades, giving them to humans.

5. This effectively usurps the native listener population, wrecked their futures, warped their gods, puts them between a rock and a hard place, and turned them into tools that can be controlled by Odium.

6. Native spren were either warped by odium, stopped actively bonding with listeners, or the listeners did not bond (and forgot how to) due to fear of being unwillingly taken over by a bad spren. The honor/cultivation spren then created the nahel bond instead to mimic the pre-existing listener-spren relationship with humans, and the surges and blades of the Heralds.

7. The Recreance is caused by discovering the knowledge that the world actually belonged to the listeners, and that Odium, Honor and Cultivation (and by association their various spren) overthrew the Listeners for the greater good in fight against Odium. As knights radiant they are actively a part of this guilty un-honorable act, and feel it is conflict with their oaths - so they immediately break them.

Notes and more speculation.

Gavilar suggests that he will return the Parshedi gods (now Unmade) – they don’t like this as they remember enough to know they loose free will. They do not know that they are actually their old corrupted leaders the Dawnsingers, and have little chance of free will in a world that is set up against them.

The reason we only know of 9 Unmade is perhaps because when the Heralds go into damnation between desolations, the Unmade disappear/go there too. Now that the last Herald has broken in damnation, and returned, perhaps so will the 10th Unmade. 

Or perhaps the Unmade were seperate humans aligned to the 10 different areas of Roshar as other have suggested Or something else!

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

So the trapping of Re-Shepir just sparked something in my mind regarding the very first vision in The Way of Kings. 

After Dalinar fights off the Midnight Essence with the two Knights, there's this exchange. 

So an individual released the Midnight Essence. 

Re-Shepir was trapped during this vision, and there were traitors, if not among the Knights themselves, then at least among those in Urithiru. 

But the text says "This was Midnight Essence" [Singular]... though who released it is still a mystery"

Could midnight essence just be a colloquial in-world term at the time for Re-Sephir (meaning they are one and the same), and when the knight makes his/her statement, they are inferring merely that [Re-Sephir/Midnight Essense] was to blame for these monsters, and who released it [Re-Sephir/Midnight Essense] is still unknown.

The Radiant could view this Unmade and the monsters it manifests as unimportant in the grand scheme of things - a mere nuisance compared to the actual void bringers.

This was how I understood it the first time it read it in TWOK.

I may of course be completely wrong!

I agree though that it suggests that Re-Sephir had been trapped until very recently prior to when the vision takes place.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see Nightblood manifest as a 'destroy evil' (or similar) spren at some point.

- Rather than just a sword.

Perhaps Nightblood will end up consuming so much investiture, that he will inadvertently reassemble the energy into a shard, and change his own intent to become a mixed up (but balanced) entity that destroys evil - albeit honourably. 

Nightblood for president!

Love it

The WoK ch 69 epigraph: All is withdrawn for me. I stand against the one who saved my life. I protect the one who killed my promises. I raise my hand. The storm responds.

I keep coming back to this as someone who ends up being a voidbinder and possibly Odium's champion. My list of contenders: Amaram, Moash, Elkohar, Sadeas (not any more), or Szeth.

Right now I'm thinking it's Amaram, but I could be persuaded.

In the context of this thread this quote is very very interesting.

Who has been saved by one, then had their promises duty to others removed by another?

Could be Seth standing against the herald that revived him, protecting Kaladin - the one that killed him unlinking him from his oathstone.

Could be Kaladin standing against Dalinar, protecting Amaram.

Heaps of interesting possibilities just from that quote.

I have always liked to think of it as honour, being splintered, is in fact the broken one.

I thought the reason was the conflict between Kaladin's two promises. He had promised to obey and protect Dalinar etc (matching his oaths), and had agreed to let the king be killed (breaking his oaths).

Because of this conflict, Syl at this point reverted to being more like a windspren, removing Kaladin's ability to absorb stormlight.

Up until the point where he fell off the bridge, there was a chance that Kaladin may change his mind and tell Dalinar of the plot to kill the king. This would have allowed Syl to return earlier. She was waiting for this.

However as he didn't, and fell off the bridge (still in conflict with his oaths and therefore without stormlight to protect himself) Sly thought Kalidin would surely die or have no hope/chance to redeem himself and protect the king.

To Syl, this this used up Kaladin's final chance and caused complete/irreversible failure of his oaths (though this was not his intent at the time) and this caused her death scream.

Later when Kaladin was recovering, he decided that yes, he would let Moash kill the king, but as Syl was already dead at this point she wasn't there to scream.

Thats how I read it anyway - probably completely wrong ;-)

I think that on Roshar, Nightblood will evolve into spren, and give Seth unique surge binding qualities.

Did anyone notice how the way Nightbloods smoke behaves is similar to the mysterious glowing black sphere that Gavilar had when he died?

I loved the book.

I only had a few minor gripes.

1. Kaladin's Oath:
I would have preferred it to be something like:
"I will forgive/protect those who deserve (my) vengeance"

2. Seth Dying and being brought back:
If he needed to live, I would have preferred Kaladin beating him soundly winning the honour blade, leaving him alive but with no purpose, tortured by the unnecessary death he had caused. Then darkness (can't remember the herald's name) could have turned up.

3. Oathgate: I didn't like the Oathgate being referred to as a 'Portal'