Kurkistan
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Everything posted by Kurkistan
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I don't think my interpretation was that dubious, but there isn't really any need to continue the discussion either way if that's the only objection you have left, since that was a point of new matter on top of all my other core arguments. EDIT: I find them all persuasive (naturally ), but how life sense works is nearly irrefutable, so far as I'm concerned. P.S. Also, this isn't a thread hijack because... extra Breaths being needed for complex Commands is an important piece of evidence for Cognitive complexity needing proportionate Spiritual power, if Breaths are indeed Spiritual.
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Yes, the ever-elusive definition of the soul is irritating, I must say. Thankfully for this case, you can fall back onto cases purely made up of (necessarily Spiritual) connections, such as Lightsong intuiting--oh, pure intuition (like, say, intuitive Awakening) is Spiritual too, if we're to trust the MAG at all--the meaning an artist tried to convey when he put his soul into a painting, as well as life sense (I edited in a section on life sense a few minutes after posting, which you might have missed). I still think Brandon is discussing the soul as purely or at least primarily Spiritual in this context, given all the other evidence for Breaths as primarily Spiritual. That was also just my "read", but that isn't exactly quantifiable. We also have the entirely separate issue of how Breaths can act as a motive force in Awakening, a Spiritual matter according to Harmony, if they're primarily Cognitive.
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I say life sense is akin to connection because of how its an imperceptible person-to-person perception that has overtones of being soul-related. Besides such "squishy" reasons, the fact that Drabs don't interact with life sense at all (neither sending nor receiving) tells us that both parties need a Breath in order for it to work. The Cognitive Realms doesn't really work in terms of two-way relations, so that leaves connections, which places us in the Spiritual via TES's definition of the Realms. Drab's don't lack stability, they're just irritable. Clubs wasn't "unstable". You can easily explain that away as a result of decreased empathy, or, alternatively, as a secondary affect of losing part of your Spiritual aspect. The fuzziness was 100% a result of Vivienne being deathly ill, actually. Another source on Breath being part of your soul: And another, if we assume that Lightsong's ability to perceive another soul is based in his own.
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An aside: Looking at the BioChroma section of the MEC, I was reminded that more complex Commands require more Breath (page 575, Warbreaker PDF). If we take as given that Breaths are Spiritual, this provides a firm basis that Cognitive complexity, if not necessarily arising out of Spiritual power, is at least dependent upon it to some degree (as a power source to power cogitation, presumably).
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I am profoundly disinclined to start this argument again (it's not you, it's me. Too much baggage from the War of Nepene), so I'll just throw some quotes at you, if you don't mind. Link EDIT: Note Brandon calling Breath "life force", which aligns with conceptions of the Spiritual as the source of energy in the Cosmere, and with normal notions of the role of the soul.Link Unless Brandon's "you're very close here" somehow allows for my conception of Breath as mostly just "juice" with no inherent ability to carry out Commands to be profoundly wrong, this also strongly suggests a relegation of Breath to the Spiritual.I have several thousand words on the subject with Nepene, if you care to peruse my reasoning in depth, along with some other quotes. Of particular note is the fact that Drab's show no sign of decreased intelligence or memory, but do have decreased drive and "life sense", both of which fall firmly into the Spiritual camp (Determination and Connection, respectively, from the Feruchemical Spiritual metals). EDIT 2: Though not "Connection" in the exactly the same sense as used in Feruchemy, it's still essentially the same kind of "Spiritual sense" that deals with connections between people on a rather elevated level rather than brute perception.
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The problem with the ritual is that the picture includes a criticism for necroposting, so I'd be criticizing myself. I can see where you're coming from, kind of in line with what Leuthi said. Still, it rubs me the wrong way. I'll mull it over.
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Okay, thanks. I suspected that the code wouldn't support it, at least not easily, but I had hoped there was a module or something. Ah well.
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I suppose this is aimed at Joe, resident God King of Theoryland. I've been doing some thinking as to difficulty you guys at Theoryland have in keeping up with new interviews and Q&A's and whatnot. You guys work hard, I know, and I know that you're overworked, understaffed, and underpaid (ha! monetary compensation!), but the small number of people with editing privileges and inclination is a big bottleneck. I know that re-formatting and tagging Q&A's can be a surprisingly difficult and time-consuming process, but you guys need to do it all yourselves (I think? If not, then ignore this thread, please) not only because you're the only ones with privileges but because you have an (admirable) vested interest in keeping up the quality and consistency of the database, especially so far as tagging goes. In order to take a bit of the work off your shoulders, might I suggest a way for the community at large to contribute? It may not help all that much, with a relatively small "active" base like the Coppermind has, but anything that took at least an equal amount of work off your plate would be worth it. The system I propose is that you open up the database to allow any number of "junior" accounts. The one and only privilege of these accounts will be to submit provisional entries for the consideration of the powers that be. Then you guys review the entries and edit them as you see fit before adding them to the database proper. That way, you get at least some amount of links, formatting, and maybe even tagging that you don't have to work on. You can just alter submitted entries, at least some of the time, which should be easier than writing them up from scratch. Now this may be too hard to implement or you may already have this system in place and I'm just ignorant, but I think such a system, if easy to put in place, could be beneficial.
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Sorry for necro-ing, I'm making my rounds on threads I should have read already, but didn't because of laziness/exams. My understanding is that Kandras' Blessings more so "close the gap" than create sentience on their own: this actually supports Windy's theory more. As Satusoni said, you can grant sentience to animals using Hemalurgy. As the world shall know and rue one day... That "in the Physical" has always bothered me. What does that even mean? I can see if it's something like being able to meaningfully interact with and understand Physical objects and concepts, maybe, but we see that Syl didn't even remember her name before the bond, so in what sense could she really have been "thinking" off in the Cognitive? @Leuthi I really do not feel like defending Breath as primarily Spiritual again, but I will if I have to. Breath is a battery with interesting side effects if I've ever seen one (right after stormlight in line). All that aside, that is a good point about the Goblet being cognizant in the Cognitive, Leuthie, and diffuses some of my worries about the "thinking in the Physical Realm" quote. Though that introduces some Kantian (criticizing) worries about to what extent such a disassociated entity is really "you"... @OP I'll agree with Satsuoni that I don't particularly like this marginalization of the Cognitive. Also, I'm unsure as to how you can fairly describe an entity which is equally present in the Physical and Spiritual as "primarily Cognitive", nor how that primarily Cognitive being with a strong Physical presence is still only a shadow in the Physical. I do quite like this idea of sentience needing a structure to inhere on, though I don't think we need to be so niggardly as to require that it be only a Physical structure.
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That quote is generally interpreted to be talking about when Kaladin is leaping the chasm to confront the Parshendi; saying the Second Ideal and sucking the stormlight out of their beards. Not his vision.
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^Sure. Link There's no need to rely on the Physical for everything. I can very easily see a Cognitive aspect "knowing" what it's corresponding body and soul ought to look like, and working on both levels simultaneously. As it so happens, though, we tend to see people's arms chopped off more often then the part's of the their souls attached to their arms, so we don't often see this effect. Also, I've theorized in the past that the soul isn't really (and I mean really) damaged by a Shardblade severing a limb. Whereas Hemalurgy rips a bloody chunk off, I think Shardblades simply cut the surface.
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Introducing Sanderson's works to friends
Kurkistan replied to skaa's topic in General Brandon Discussion
Nowadays, three letters: T.E.S. It's the easiest introductory sell you could ever ask for. So far as getting them to read more, I usually don't bother if they weren't interested after at least reading the Mistborn trilogy. Maybe the occasional reminder of awesomeness to come if they keep reading Sanderson, but you can only lead a horse to water. -
As a rule, I find that hiding posts is unnecessary. Yours was a tad on the defensive side, but I've seen worse , and you were still civil. If you really find that you've posted an irredeamable monstrosity, or want to substantially rework the wording of a post, then you're best off just leaving a big fat "EDIT" in there and either explaining yourself after rewriting the post entirely or just saying "I deleted the content of this post because I wrote it in a fit of Realmatically-induced rage and now don't agree with any of it's parts". I'm not so afraid of "brute force Harmony". By the very meaning of the word and combination of Shards that comprise it, Harmony is productive, and will be shaped by Sazed's own personality and predilictions, to some extent. Allowing and encouraging natural human development towards the good sounds more harmonious than forcing unnatural and discordant changes on a whim.
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Fair enough; I suppose I misjudged the importance of your terminology. I still think you're wrong, btw. As it so happens, both are of the habit or returning you to some default state, but I don't think there is any deeper meaning behind this coincidence. Also, as a more general point, I don't think "Harmony" is so balanced as you suggest. Yes, Sazed says he need to maintain "the balance" when answers Epicurus' riddle, but we see that his actions tend toward the good. It seems, then, that we ought to understand Harmony (the shard) as productive while preserving human agency, rather than simply brute balance. Gold and Aluminum return you to a "balanced" state and so enable you to be more productive (EDIT: or harmful), while Harmony (and thus harmony) is a tad more actively positive, setting up opportunity for success rather than just correcting for failure.
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First of all, I wouldn't exactly call Gold Feruchemy "cleansing". It's more akin to restoration than anything else, if you insist on a one-word descriptor. Second, yes, the power does come from somewhere: the Feruchemist. That's why it's end-neutral (it neither introduces nor removes Investiture from the world). The power comes from Preservation for Aluminum Allomancy, though, so it is end-positive because power is being introduced into the world, at least so far as the local scale goes. I don't think talk of "balance/harmony" is very helpful, to be honest. Both powers both do a bang-up job of restoring you to some measure of "default"; I suppose you could call that balance. But you go on to do some odd thing this word, so I'm going to say "no" and insist that Gold Feruchemy and Allomantic Aluminum be described more fully as "taking you back to a 'normal' state". Also, Vin almost certainly burned Aluminum again as a test between TFE and WoA, and she wears her earring constantly, so it probably doesn't kill spikes. Yes, Ruin could have influenced her to not be wearing it during these tests, but, all things being equal, we should lean towards the simpler scenario, especially given Ruin's relative weakness so far as suggestions go and lack of access to Vin's thoughts/intentions moment by moment.
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I've always seen it as similar to how height is passed down, genetically (by my unscientific and potentially inaccurate understanding). Parents contribute a random number of "tall genes" based on their own genetics, describing something of a normal distribution around 1/2 of the number they actually have (what with haploid cells and all). So, in the average case, a set of 5' and a 6' parents' children would be 5'6". Weird variants can occur, though, such that two short parents can produce a tall child, or the inverse. It all depends on the "tallness" of the genes that each parent contributed and some statistics. With magic (yes, the topic of this essay on what I can recall of the biology of reproduction), and more specifically sDNA, I imagine it follows a very similar course. So an unlucky mistborn can produce misting children, or even muggles, depending on how the cards fall. IIRC, the first few generations of Allomancers were all mistborn because their Allomantic potential was just so insanely high: If you put together an 8' giant and anyone else, the result is always going to be able to dunk. While a skaa might have a base Allomantic potential of 2 out of 10 (to pick a number out of a hat), with 5 (same hat) as the minimum threshold for a misting, copulation with a 6 misting could bump their child above the line, and at the very least will give it a higher base level for subsequent generations to work off of. EDIT: So if you take 2 and a 6, they should even out to 4. But they might get a 2 or an 8.
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My understanding is that there is no qualitative difference between a misting and a mistborn, just quantitative. A mistborn's power is exactly like a misting's, then, only more so. The fact that getting over a certain "threshold" of Preservation's power is enough to jump you from 1 to 16 powers is simply the way that it works: You can make car with a jet engine and wings, but it's only ever going to be able to drive on the ground until you hit a certain speed. Okay, maybe that's not the best analogy, but you get the idea. This is illustrated by how mistings can produce mistborn children, and how the weakening of Allomantic lines of descent is shown by decreasing proportions of mistborn to mistings. It's all fundamentally the same power going up and down in the background.
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Brandon has said in the past that Ferrings arose as a result of Allomantic genes messing with Feruchemical genes. I think he's stepped back from that since (though I can't find a source at the moment); to simply say it's a result of "thinning" bloodlines rather than "corrupted" ones. The chance remains that his original statement still holds and thus that no natural Twinawesome could be born, though.
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Okay, I just spent an inordinate amount of time reading the game book in detail for the first time (I just skimmed/skipped to the Treatise Metallurgic before now). Whoever I end up playing with will have to forgive me if the Thug bodyguard (with a dark and troubled past, no less) that I rolled isn't exactly original. EDIT: @Phantom My Resources are a bit shaky, so hook me up with some extra Pewter and body armor and I'll be your guy
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Though I doubt it, that's a very interesting and (to my knowledge) fresh perspective, Leuthie.
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No idea, sorry. Actually, I have a few lingering questions that I could throw in. If Dalinar were a Feruchemist, would he be able to tap a metalmind (in either world) while experiencing one of his visions? Do Surgebinders have gemhearts? So what's up with frame of reference for time bubbles? -Very open-ended, but, very tempting to me, at least. Either I get validated for my craziness or get my soul crushed after spending an inordinate amount of time thinking up/insisting on my interpretation.
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No, they just feel an attunement to their metal. Snapping is a very Allomancy-centric process, what with choosing to Preserve and leaving a gap in your spiritweb for Preservation to access and all. Link
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I don't know why you'd be scared, though, since it's not like the Admins are using Hemalurgy to bend forumites to their wills...
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Though I don't have the time to comment on the rest of the theory, I'm fairly sure you're wrong about Gold Feruchemy. It works the same way as the vast majority of Healing works in the Cosmere: "healing back to the form of yourself; that you know yourself as, as the world knows you as." That's a straight Cognitive aspect if I've ever seen one. If Miles shot off his foot, waited a year until he and everyone around him was completely used to it, then tried to Heal it back, it wouldn't work.
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@Senor The more I mull it over, the more I'm sure that spren are our elusive creatures that "are only shadowed" in the Physical. Though Brandon RAFO'd my question about photographing spren, we do know that Syl, at least, doesn't illuminate her environment. In line with one of my suggestions on my vampire thread, I would suggest that spren are only luminescent in the Cognitive Realm (or maybe the Spiritual, but I don't think so) and that stormlight supercharges them so much that they bleed over into the perceptions of Cognitively active beings (humans) on the Physical. So spren don't bleed over, just their shadows. Thoughts? @shardbearer A fair conjecture. @Aaradel I'll await your thread, but I'd just like to point out that the original quote about "poopspren" makes a clear distinction between feces and spren as we normally know them:
