Chicken Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I've signed up because this one thing here has been bothering me far too much lately. Yes, I'm that inane. Everyone calls Sadeas "Sadeas". His name is Torol but it's used a grand total of once in the whole book. Even his ex-buddy Dalinar calls him Sadeas, and that's to his face. On the other hand, no one calls Dalinar "Highprince/Brightlord Kholin". He's always "Brightlord Dalinar". I think bridgemen call him Highprince Kholin a couple of times near the end, but that's it. (Another tidbit is that we don't know whether other highprinces (Roion, Vamah, etc.) are being referred to by their names or surnames, but I digress) So what's the deal? Why does everyone, from bridgemen slaves to king himself, calls one powerful highprince by his name and the other one by his surname? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGhandalf Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Probably because there are at least four Brightlord Kholins (Dalinar, Adolin, Renarin, and the King himself) in the warcamps, while Sadeas seems to be the only one of his house who's actually there in person. And I definite reacall Kaladin calling Dalinar either Highprince Kholin or Brightlord Kholin at least once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyRioter Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Kaladin called him just "Kholin" at least once. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGhandalf Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Probably In any case, we have at least one reference to the man by his surname. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Probably because there are at least four Brightlord Kholins (Dalinar, Adolin, Renarin, and the King himself) in the warcamps, And one Brightlady as well - the King's widow. There's also another possible issue. Dalinar has a nickname - The Blackthorn. But he's now seen as changing, becoming soft, not living up to his reputation. So it's possible that the use of his first name is partly a response to the changes that others see in him. He doesn't command the respect that he once did among the members of his warlike culture, so they use his first name (signifying a lack of respect) instead of his nickname or his surname. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aashyma Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 And one Brightlady as well - the King's widow. Three Brightladies-Jasnah, Elhokar's wife and the old King's Widow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGhandalf Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 Jasnah's not on the Shattered Plains (yet) though, and I'm pretty sure Elhokar's wife's back in Kholinar (can someone confirm that? Don't have my book handy). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 It's true, the king's wife is back in the capital, but it doesn't inhibit the fact that there are quite a few prominent Kholins running around and calling them all by their surnames is simply impractical and confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junior Posted October 14, 2011 Report Share Posted October 14, 2011 On a very loosely related (and silly!) tangent... Presumably Brightlords are "bright" because of their bright eyes (i.e. another reference to eye color along the lines of "lighteyes"). Does that mean that Kaladin should be referred to as "Darklord"? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silus - Shard of Flame Posted October 15, 2011 Report Share Posted October 15, 2011 In Alethi there is no word for a lord that doesn't make reference to being a lighteyes, the two are completely synonymous. Though Darklord Kaladin has a nice ring to it. "In corner number one we have Darklord Kaladin, slayer of Shardbearers and Radiant Knight! And in THIS corner we have... "STORMAGEDDON, DARK LORD OF ALL!" *cue crying baby* 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Posted October 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 I suppose no one knows much more about this. If I was a more nitpick obsessed person, I could reply with "we don't know how many brightlords there are in other highprinces' families", "Sadeas (and every other highprince) must also have a related heir somewhere in case he falls in battle" and similar arguements. But since I'm not, I'll chalk this up to an oddity in writing. ... And since this thread here is alread about pointless stuff that bugs me, I could mention another one. Namely, "brightness". Why are women not referred to as "brightlady"? If there were no such thing as "brightlady" at all, I could accept it as the feminine form of "brightlord". But there is two instances of it: Shallan refers to Jasnah as such when she first meets Kabsal and once Navani thinks she's not being a proper brightlady. I don't know why I insist on being bugged by oddest things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterGhandalf Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 I assumed that "Brightness" and "Brightlady" were simply different terms that meant the same thing (a highly-ranked lighteyed woman) but that "Brightness" was more "correct" as it were, particularly as a form of address, so that's why it shows up more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortellini Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Yes, "Brightness" seems to be the standard opposite to Brightlord. It's used pretty regularly. As for the original question - it also depends very much on who's speaking - or thinking for that matter. Most times Dalinar is talked about, it's in viewpoints of people very close to him, or during his own viewpoint when speaking to someone, and those are often his equals or relatives, so they would use mostly first names. The one thing is Sadeas calling him Dalinar, but he calls him Sadeas, so that is a little off. Maybe Sadeas doesn't like his first name... or Dalinar is a bit more formal, which would fit him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulyssessword Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 I always thought that Sadeas was his given name, and Torol was his house name, and that it wasn't ever used in order to give the reader a more consistent name to remember him by. I can't think of how to make a glyphpair (eg. Kholin = khohk + linil IIRC) out of Sadeas, but Torol could work (torot + rolor ?). For Brightness vs. Brightlady, I understood Brightness to be an honorific (like Sir, miss, mister, her Highness, etc...) and Brightlady to be the associated title (like Knight, etc...). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ari Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 The one thing is Sadeas calling him Dalinar, but he calls him Sadeas, so that is a little off. Maybe Sadeas doesn't like his first name... or Dalinar is a bit more formal, which would fit him. I wonder if it's simply because it might be a bit inappropriate to refer to him by his surname or rank and surname, given that it's the King's surname as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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