Ishars Honorblade and Godspren

[The Cosmere Unaware]

first post

So, we know Bondsmiths are special and require a Godspren to make, which there are 3 of (as of now) and that their surges work 'differently' from the other orders so I suspect there is more going on than just the resonance between Adhesion and Tension.

We also know the Honorblades grant the surges associated to them without the need for a Nahel Bond.
Ishar is pulling of all the Bondsmith shenanigans without much issue with his blade.

Judging from that, is Ishars just more invested than the other 9 Honorblades to make this possible?

[+Harrycrapper]

Some of this is up for debate, but to answer your question simply, I don't think the Honorblade itself is any more invested than the other Honorblades. The Honorblades are all physical pieces of Honor much like Lerasium is a physical piece of Preservation. It stands to reason that their weight would determine how much Investiture they contain, and Ishar's is not the biggest one. If you'd asked before Rhythm of War, I'd have said that Ishar's Honorblade would allow the user to do anything Dalinar could except the perpendicularity. That's obviously not the case, however I don't recall whether Ishar's perpendicularity filled spheres with Stormlight. It's possible that is the true difference; the powers work entirely the same for Honorblade wielder or Nahel Bond with Godspren except the Godspren provide a specific light(Stormfather: Stormlight, Nightwatcher: Lifelight, Sibling: Towerlight). Maybe Ishar was able to provide Stormlight when he was still Bonded to Honor, but that's speculation on my part. 

Ishar is definitely more capable than I think most people thought he would be without his Bond to Honor. But, short of a PoV where we see what he's working with or him explaining this stuff to Dalinar, we know some of what he's capable of, but not why. 

[Honorless he/him]

I don't think he's using the Investiture from the Honorblade itself as fuel for his Surges? It's what grants him access to the Surges, but he's using Light to fuel it, same as the Radiants. Well, almost same as the Radiants, the Heralds did not need to store Light in gemstones as they had a direct Connection to Honor to get Investiture from.

Ishar's powers seem to be special because of how the Surges that he has access to seem to manifest effects that are more Spiritual than Physical or Cognitive. And because Honor's death apparently lifted the restrictions on Bondsmith powers (unknown if restrictions on other Surges are also lifted, books seem to hint other Surges were directly altered rather than suppressed?).

He apparently had enough of a Connection to Honor (probably due to being a Herald, possibly strengthened by himself after the restrictions on Bondsmith Surges were lifted but that would be speculation) to be able to open his Perpendicularity, just as Dalinar does via his Bond with the Stormfather.

[The Cosmere Unaware]

10 hours ago, Honorless said:

I don't think he's using the Investiture from the Honorblade itself as fuel for his Surges? It's what grants him access to the Surges, but he's using Light to fuel it, same as the Radiants. Well, almost same as the Radiants, the Heralds did not need to store Light in gemstones as they had a direct Connection to Honor to get Investiture from.

Ishar's powers seem to be special because of how the Surges that he has access to seem to manifest effects that are more Spiritual than Physical or Cognitive. And because Honor's death apparently lifted the restrictions on Bondsmith powers (unknown if restrictions on other Surges are also lifted, books seem to hint other Surges were directly altered rather than suppressed?).

He apparently had enough of a Connection to Honor (probably due to being a Herald, possibly strengthened by himself after the restrictions on Bondsmith Surges were lifted but that would be speculation) to be able to open his Perpendicularity, just as Dalinar does via his Bond with the Stormfather.

oh he's certainly not using any investiture from the blade, it's more about the manifestation of the bondsmith-specific way of using the surges it enables

What's weird is that, you need Godspren to make Bondsmiths, to make these surges do special things, yes? Doesn't it stand to reason that the Bondsmith Honorblade has something extra to enable the same thing, then?

Edited June 27, 2021 by The Cosmere Unaware

[Honorless he/him]

36 minutes ago, The Cosmere Unaware said:

oh he's certainly not using any investiture from the blade, it's more about the manifestation of the bondsmith-specific way of using the surges it enables

What's weird is that, you need Godspren to make Bondsmiths, to make these surges do special things, yes? Doesn't it stand to reason that the Bondsmith Honorblade has something extra to enable the same thing, then?

Oh there's definitely something more, but it's not just extra Investiture

Quote

Jurble

Are Bondsmith spren created as a matter of intent by Shards or are they 'natural' insofar as any spren made of enough Investiture would create a Bondsmith bond? That is, for example, the Everstorm is clearly a giant mass of Odium's Investiture, if someone were to bond its spren (which is presumably very young and insensate currently), would it form a Bondsmith bond as a matter of (super)natural laws or would Odium have to tweak something on a metaphysical level to allow a Bondsmith bond to form?

Brandon Sanderson

It wouldn't naturally become a Bondsmith spren, as it's not JUST the amount of Investiture that makes one. (For example, there's that odd spren in Iri that has a ton of Investiture, but didn't become a Radiant spren.) To become a Radiant spren requires some different things.

General Reddit 2020 (Nov. 28, 2020)

 

[Waffles]

Ishar's bondsmithing powers may predate him becoming a herald, and certainly predates the binding of the surges. If honor locked away the surges behind some sort of barrier then the nahel bond and the honor blades may function more like keys or doors to access the surgebinding powers. Then its less about power and more about who created what and how they created it.

 

[Master Silver]

Ishar's bondsmith abilities do predate the humans on Roshar, at least pretty sure it says so in RoW. We also know Roshar was created before the splintering of Adonsasium. So, just postulating here, but what if the magic system on Roshar was the original magic system, and now the three Shards there, simply provide the power to keep it going, but didn't reinvent the wheel, like other Shards. Perhaps that is what convinces Odium, that the power of lashings will be enough to win him wars against other Shards.

[Jondesu he/him]

On 7/8/2021 at 1:15 PM, Master Silver said:

Ishar's bondsmith abilities do predate the humans on Roshar, at least pretty sure it says so in RoW. We also know Roshar was created before the splintering of Adonsasium. So, just postulating here, but what if the magic system on Roshar was the original magic system, and now the three Shards there, simply provide the power to keep it going, but didn't reinvent the wheel, like other Shards. Perhaps that is what convinces Odium, that the power of lashings will be enough to win him wars against other Shards.

I think there could be a lot of truth to that. We know that Odium didn’t stick around any one place before Roshar to avoid getting trapped. What if his fascination with the Surges and desire to use them to facilitate his battle against the other Shards led to him letting down his guard and letting himself get trapped because he was focused on this new weapon, one he managed to get them to use to destroy a planet (well, make uninhabitable). Doing that to Scadrial would have significantly weakened Preservation and Ruin, making them easier to Splinter. Presumably the same would apply to other Invested worlds. Most Shards seem to have Invested somewhere, so perhaps that was his true goal, and Honor merely caught him off guard. I somehow think Cultivation wasn’t completely on board with the Oathpact, either, and keeping Odium bound. She’d have preferred to let him go after other weaker Shards and leave her alone for a while probably.