Kaladin-spren?/ determination spren

[Valigus]

After the end of rythm of war and even before that kaladin was developing what really can only be called a cult following. I’ve seen some people refer to it as the cult of stormblessed and I’ve started thinking will kaladin get spren? 

An interesting thing I realized looking through spren lists is there is no determination spren or perseverance spren. There are gloom spren and logic spren but no determination spren? That seems weird to me. Especially when coupled with what happens in rythm of war, during the book we see the cult following around kaladin expand into soemthing that is highly reminiscent of the way kelsiers religion formed. 
 

on top of the fact that I think there is subtle foreshadowing that this may happen for example syl has a conversation with kaladin about having or adopting baby spren and raising them like her kids and teaching them to annoy kaladin. These kinds of conversations are not the kind of things that happen in Sanderson books for no reason. This was specifically included, and while syl seemed to be talking about adopting a group of wind spren it could apply to spren that come into being because of kaladin because they would kinda be her kids too since their souls are connected.

Like if kelsier existed in roshar survivorism should have spren of some type like survival spren

Edited February 10, 2021 by Valigus

[Leuthie]

49 minutes ago, Valigus said:

An interesting thing I realized looking through spren lists is there is no determination spren or perseverance spren. There are gloom spren and logic spren but no determination spren? That seems weird to me. 

I've theorized that the non-sapient unmade are "coagulated" lesser spren. The "made" version of the spren were separate entities and attracted to the thing they represented, like all other lesser spren. The "unmade" version are singular entities that create a twisted version of the thing they were once attracted to. Nergaoul could very well be the result of Odium "unmaking" determination-spren, turning spren that were once attracted to sustained effort into Unmade that create "The Thrill" when someone goes into a mode that would lead to sustained effort.

This has nothing to do with your theory. Your statement about missing spren just reminded me. I have to make a list of missing spren that should exist. 

50 minutes ago, Valigus said:

on top of the fact that I think there is subtle foreshadowing that this may happen for example syl has a conversation with kaladin about having or adopting baby spren and raising them like her kids and teaching them to annoy kaladin. These kinds of conversations are not the kind of things that happen in Sanderson books for no reason. This was specifically included, and while syl seemed to be talking about adopting a group of wind spren it could apply to spren that come into being because of kaladin because they would kinda be her kids too since their souls are connected.

I think the lesser spren that make up a Radiant's armor have a relationship with the the bonded spren, and what Syl is doing with windspren is just part of that relationship. Spren that "come into being" due to some event probably takes more than a few years of hero cult status. Kaladin's deeds might result in Kaladin-spren if the legend becomes ubiquitous and continues for about 1000 years.

[KSub]

1 hour ago, Valigus said:

After the end of rythm of war and even before that kaladin was developing what really can only be called a cult following. I’ve seen some people refer to it as the cult of stormblessed and I’ve started thinking will kaladin get spren? 

An interesting thing I realized looking through spren lists is there is no determination spren or perseverance spren. There are gloom spren and logic spren but no determination spren? That seems weird to me. Especially when coupled with what happens in rythm of war, during the book we see the cult following around kaladin expand into soemthing that is highly reminiscent of the way kelsiers religion formed. 
 

on top of the fact that I think there is subtle foreshadowing that this may happen for example syl has a conversation with kaladin about having or adopting baby spren and raising them like her kids and teaching them to annoy kaladin. These kinds of conversations are not the kind of things that happen in Sanderson books for no reason. This was specifically included, and while syl seemed to be talking about adopting a group of wind spren it could apply to spren that come into being because of kaladin because they would kinda be her kids too since their souls are connected.

I agree with @Leuthie. I doubt that we will see any spren created by kaladin. There are very few povs where people are surprised by an unusual spren and usually people around them are like, "Oh those things? They're everywhere, like cremlings during the riddens they are."

But it is odd that there are some types of spren we would expect to see that are suspiciously absent. Perhaps that's what some of the unmade are, particularly the mindless ones.

[mathiau he/him]

29 minutes ago, Valigus said:

After the end of rythm of war and even before that kaladin was developing what really can only be called a cult following. I’ve seen some people refer to it as the cult of stormblessed and I’ve started thinking will kaladin get spren?

From what you said in the Dawnshards thread I assume by getting a spren you mean "people will imagine determination/ perseverance as an entity/person and it will create a spren inspired by what he is"?

Quote

An interesting thing I realized looking through spren lists is there is no determination spren or perseverance spren. There are gloom spren and logic spren but no determination spren? That seems weird to me. Especially when coupled with what happens in rythm of war, during the book we see the cult following around kaladin expand into soemthing that is highly reminiscent of the way kelsiers religion formed.

This is not the only conspicuously absent spren. There's a passionspren (that's of H+C and not of O) but not lovespren despite H and C being lovers, no hatespren either. But for both of these something close actually exist, the yellow spren that guided the parshs in Oathbringer is almost certainly the Odium equivalent of honourspren, ergo hatesprens; for lovesprens you have Seons which don't work as well as the guiding spren since they'd be devotionsprens, but Devotion is intended as synonymous to love and seons sever those they love so clause enough.

My point is that determination/perseverancespren looks clause enough to what a sapient splinter of Valour would be that they don't need to exist on Roshar.

Also, it's almost certain don't know all sapient sprens and they don't tend to go to the physical realm when not bounded so it could just be that.

I didn't understand the "it looks like what happened with Survivorism" until you said " Like if kelsier existed in roshar survivorism should have spren of some type like survival spren" on the other thread, you should add something like that to this one too

Quote

on top of the fact that I think there is subtle foreshadowing that this may happen for example syl has a conversation with kaladin about having or adopting baby spren and raising them like her kids and teaching them to annoy kaladin. These kinds of conversations are not the kind of things that happen in Sanderson books for no reason. This was specifically included, and while syl seemed to be talking about adopting a group of wind spren it could apply to spren that come into being because of kaladin because they would kinda be her kids too since their souls are connected.

The first one I don't know, but the part about making windsprens smarter was probably foreshadowing that yes you could and Sja knew how

19 minutes ago, Leuthie said:

I've theorized that the non-sapient unmade are "coagulated" lesser spren. The "made" version of the spren were separate entities and attracted to the thing they represented, like all other lesser spren. The "unmade" version are singular entities that create a twisted version of the thing they were once attracted to. Nergaoul could very well be the result of Odium "unmaking" determination-spren, turning spren that were once attracted to sustained effort into Unmade that create "The Thrill" when someone goes into a mode that would lead to sustained effort.

This has nothing to do with your theory. Your statement about missing spren just reminded me. I have to make a list of missing spren that should exist.

Would you consider Persuasionsprens as missing? The Sibling mentionned them but we've never seen them, even when the Thaylens read Navani and Jashna's threatise on why they should join despite the latter having been able to draw logicsprens.

 

[Valigus]

1 hour ago, Leuthie said:

I've theorized that the non-sapient unmade are "coagulated" lesser spren. The "made" version of the spren were separate entities and attracted to the thing they represented, like all other lesser spren. The "unmade" version are singular entities that create a twisted version of the thing they were once attracted to. Nergaoul could very well be the result of Odium "unmaking" determination-spren, turning spren that were once attracted to sustained effort into Unmade that create "The Thrill" when someone goes into a mode that would lead to sustained effort.

This has nothing to do with your theory. Your statement about missing spren just reminded me. I have to make a list of missing spren that should exist. 

I think the lesser spren that make up a Radiant's armor have a relationship with the the bonded spren, and what Syl is doing with windspren is just part of that relationship. Spren that "come into being" due to some event probably takes more than a few years of hero cult status. Kaladin's deeds might result in Kaladin-spren if the legend becomes ubiquitous and continues for about 1000 years.

Yeah but this was a theoretical conversation before this was happening. 
that’s true I bet it would take time but it should happen if the current course continues.

 

39 minutes ago, KSub said:

I agree with @Leuthie. I doubt that we will see any spren created by kaladin. There are very few povs where people are surprised by an unusual spren and usually people around them are like, "Oh those things? They're everywhere, like cremlings during the riddens they are."

But it is odd that there are some types of spren we would expect to see that are suspiciously absent. Perhaps that's what some of the unmade are, particularly the mindless ones.

I doubt we will see them now but eventually it seems possible since there are odd unique spren, it seem possible that kaladin-spren or a kaladin spren could come into being.

39 minutes ago, mathiau said:

From what you said in the Dawnshards thread I assume by getting a spren you mean "people will imagine determination/ perseverance as an entity/person and it will create a spren inspired by what he is"?

This is not the only conspicuously absent spren. There's a passionspren (that's of H+C and not of O) but not lovespren despite H and C being lovers, no hatespren either. But for both of these something close actually exist, the yellow spren that guided the parshs in Oathbringer is almost certainly the Odium equivalent of honourspren, ergo hatesprens; for lovesprens you have Seons which don't work as well as the guiding spren since they'd be devotionsprens, but Devotion is intended as synonymous to love and seons sever those they love so clause enough.

My point is that determination/perseverancespren looks clause enough to what a sapient splinter of Valour would be that they don't need to exist on Roshar.

Also, it's almost certain don't know all sapient sprens and they don't tend to go to the physical realm when not bounded so it could just be that.

I didn't understand the "it looks like what happened with Survivorism" until you said " Like if kelsier existed in roshar survivorism should have spren of some type like survival spren" on the other thread, you should add something like that to this one too

The first one I don't know, but the part about making windsprens smarter was probably foreshadowing that yes you could and Sja knew how

Would you consider Persuasionsprens as missing? The Sibling mentionned them but we've never seen them, even when the Thaylens read Navani and Jashna's threatise on why they should join despite the latter having been able to draw logicsprens.

 

Yes basically that the cult around him and what he represents could result in a type of spren that is if not related to him at lea at inspired by him.

yeah seons being love spren seems close and yeah the yellow odium ones being hate spren makes a lot of sense too.

ok good suggestion

that's true but it could also be about this didn’t think about that angle though.

but it’s all like if kelsier existed in roshar survivorism should have spren of some type like survival spren

Edited February 10, 2021 by Valigus

[StormFather!]

What if Kaladin survives as cognitive shadow after he dies because they believe in him surviving so much that he becomes a Kaladin-spren, similar to how Tanavast’s cognitive shadow joined the Stormfather (even though that’s for a different reason)

[Valigus]

On 2/21/2021 at 3:16 PM, StormFather! said:

What if Kaladin survives as cognitive shadow after he dies because they believe in him surviving so much that he becomes a Kaladin-spren, similar to how Tanavast’s cognitive shadow joined the Stormfather (even though that’s for a different reason)

This is one of the things I’ve considered but I’m not sure if investiture is still required because if the belief is enough then absolutely I think this could happen