hoidhunter he/him Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 something like that i think in trying to save the world they caused the shattering and hoid is trying to set something right The very fact that he would mention his former mentor thousands of years after the guy died makes me think that he is still driven by his dedication to the man's work...saving humanity...sometimes despite themselves...
taveren he/him Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 he hasn't lived those thousands of years though
hoidhunter he/him Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 True...hoid has not been "awake" for all of this time...do you think that I am wrong about his motives?
taveren he/him Posted January 9, 2015 Posted January 9, 2015 hard to say he did say he would let roshar die if it would get him what he needs
snote Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 What about the "Giblatish" chapter? When talking to Dalinar during a feast, he wonders if a man can be taken apart and then put back together, chunk by bloody chunk. Then says, "If you happen to find out, be sure to name him Giblatish, after me!" To which Dalinar asks, "Is that your name then?" Hoid replies, "I've abandoned my real name..."This is all rather vague and philosophical but it does speak to what Hoid wants. He is believed to be reassembling Adonalsium. I don't think he wants to reunite all 16 shards in their entirety but to recombine the investiture of all 16. If you notice, he's collecting all the "magics" of the different places he goes. He has breaths, Larasium, Spheres, and the God beyond knows what else. It makes me think that he is trying to piece together all the fragments, in scale model form. To see if the point of reconstituting it all is worth the effort. Though, in order to achieve his goal, he has to keep the Cosmere from being overtaken by the more destructive of the Shards. Like Odium and Ruin. With his line "I began life as words on a page." It may be that Hoid is Adonalsium in a lesser form. Which is why he abandoned that name. His "Words on a page" were an idea of what would happen if he were shattered. How he would have to recombine his mentality to restore his faculties. Also, as he isn't threatened by a Shard blade and claims to be spiritually blind. It would appear his soul is different from others. Maybe he needs the investiture controlling parts of the other Shards in order to reconnect with the Spiritual realm, to do something he needs to do.I still think it's possible that he is a "Champion" of one of the shards. Like the shard of Wisdom, Understanding, Insight, Reason, or some such. As he is always seeking information. He says he knows, "Almost everything. It's that almost that seems to be the real problem." It just appears that he is moving through space and time to recombine a bit of "Adonalsium" to make a small 17th shard. In order to possibly communicate with his old master/friend. To see what the end game is or to ask him for advice on what to do.It is also completely possible that Hoid will never be fully understood until we get what is going on from the beginning. As he began life as words on a page. It's possible that there isn't anything more to him than that. 2
theRealHoid Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 Here's my speculation on the guy that calls himself Hoid. Much of my inspiration is drawn from the fact that much like Robert Jordan, Sanderson likes exposing readers to the flawed and inaccurate thoughts of his characters and using those thoughts in a bit of misdirection. This is especially potent when the thoughts comes from what the reader might consider "a subject matter expert" character that we wouldn't think to question until perhaps later in a book or series. Kelsier's knowledge of Allomancy is a good example of this. It serves as the reader's foundation of Allomantic knowledge until later on we find out that it was far from complete and accurate. Anyway, we can apply that type of skepticism about the characters invested and interested in Hoid's pursuits. One fact needs to be established though: Hoid wrote the letter in WoK and was the recipient of the reply in WoR. While it's possible that it wasn't Hoid, it's also possible I could belch fire and burn down my cubicle, but highly unlikely. Applying Occam's razor and a little common sense really leaves no viable alternatives. There's no reason for Brandon to be exceedingly clever with these passages. It's enough that these are Cosmere related easter egg morsels intended to keep those of us who are Cosmere aware drooling for more. Your average SA reader with no cosmere awareness probably still considers it a bit of a mystery (and it's probably how a good number of readers end up becoming cosmere aware). With that said, to me it seems Hoid is up to more than what the 17th shard, or that presumably Yolish dragon, believe him to be doing. To them, he seems like a loose cannon pursuing his own personal vendetta against Rayse and Bavadin. He's trudging across the cosmere to stick it to them and in doing so, could screw a lot of things up. I'd imagine it'd be somewhat like negotiating a contract with a client delicately for months when some idiot hothead in your organization shoots off his mouth and ruins everything, even if they were somewhat justified. Except this is on a cosmic scale. So to them, his personal quibbles are selfish and he needs to be brought to heel before his actions lead to terrible damage. Yet, there's more to it, even though Hoid does admit his beef with Rayse and Bavadin in the letter. Hoid's motivation isn't out of revenge as the 17th shard thinks. It's out of true fear and worry at what Rayse is capable of doing. I believe part of that fear is also based on whatever interaction occurred between the two pre shattering, combined with Rayse's actions on Sel, that leads Hoid to believe that Rayse's threat, that being the desire to shatter all other Shards and become the dominant force in the cosmere, is a real one. Even then, there's still more to it and is where it gets a bit more tinfoil hat. I believe there's a WoB out there somewhere indicating there's a force out there that was (maybe still is) opposing Adonalsium. So what if the shattering was intended to be a counter to this opposing force, but somehow it went wrong. And that something wrong turns out to be an anti-adonalsium influenced Rayse and Bavadin deliberately screwing up the shattering. And perhaps Hoid noticed something amiss and was deceived and/or neutralized by them. Maybe they locked him out of the shattering, not only preventing him from receiving his shard, but causing Adonalsium to split in a way that granted Rayse Odium and Bavadin whatever he has (which I suspect is not a very nice intent as well). In other words, if Hoid had been the 17th shard (slight pun intended), Rayse wouldn't have received Odium at all and the "intent mix" would have been something far more beneficial to the cosmere and able to counter anti-adonalsium. Instead, the intent mix produced paves a way for anti-adonalsium, via Odium's shard shattering rampage (and whatever Bavadin is up to), to become the dominant force in the cosmere. Hoid might or might not be aware of an anti-adonalsium influence, but he knows something went wrong and who's to blame. And sadly, no one else is listening to him because they're writing it off as jealous revenge for getting tricked out of a shard. Knowing something went wrong, he's out to do what he thinks is the right course: somehow reassembling adonalsium so the correct action against anti-adonalsium can be taken. But he doesn't have a shard and doesn't dare stand against a shard in order to take one up. So he does the next best thing: gather their investiture in hopes that it could create something similar to adonalsium that could fix the problem of both Rayse and the incorrect shattering. Now whether that IS the right course is up in the air. It could make things worse. But, it's what Hoid believes to be the right (or only) course. Something at the shattering could have made him feel guilty that it was his fault. And it could be something as simple as "how could I be such a fool for trusting those two?" or being an unwitting accomplice to their deception (this would be an interesting development seeing as witty as he is now). Either way, I think he somehow feels responsible for what happened and he's seeking to fix it. As to the reply stating that Rayse is trapped where he is, I do not think Hoid is quite convinced, which again is probably due to whatever happened pre-shattering. He feels he has "inside knowledge" of Rayse's capabilities and therefore doesn't quite believe that Rayse won't find a way out of his entrapment that the writer of the reply is certain will contain him. He's too dangerous to leave alone. So, to paraphrase: there's a mess to clean up, he believes it's his so feels compelled to do the cleaning, whichever way it needs to get done. No one believes him and instead believe he's out for revenge, so they're trying to stop him. 2
TheBlackReaper he/him Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 (edited) I do not believe that hoid shattered the shard......because if you pay attention in the WoR, in the letter part, that the friend (master of the 17th shard) mentions to hoid that 'Rayse desired the shard of hatred', specifically-"He bears the weight of God’s own divine hatred, separated from the virtues that gave it context. He is what we made him to be, old friend. And that is what he, unfortunately, wished to become."(chapter 71-Vigil). So, it is almost impossible that hoid himself shattered adonalsium-the more probable theory is that he was part of the team, that included rayse, who took it upon themselves to shatter or destroy adonalsium for some reason they believed to be righteous, but later on, after the other members of the team picked up the broken shards and acquired there current persona, hoid came to the conclusion that what they did was wrong or incomplete, and so is currently pursuing his goal..........the final end of the cataclysm that he and his friends started. Edited January 27, 2015 by TheBlackReaper 1
Shlee Posted January 26, 2015 Posted January 26, 2015 That brings to mind a question that I've never seen asked..... do we know if all 16 of the shards were picked up? A complete non-splintered shard that never had a holder could be interesting....
Darkness he/him Posted January 27, 2015 Posted January 27, 2015 Just throwing in a little more fun to this thread on our favorite gibletish: WOR p. 1076. Hoid is talking alone with a cremling, which could mean he is just messing around for practise/fun, or he is actually speaking freely for once. He says, "That man is me, I'm not physically blind, just spiritually." I don't know what to make of that, except to say that Hoid obviously uses magics that rely at least partially on the spiritual realm, and that he casually dismisses shardblades -which cut the soul- as 'little knives' that don't pose him any real threat. No conclusions on this one for me, just fun thoughts. Enjoy!
snote Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 I did discover why Wit is spiritually blind. It happened while thinking about Hamlet. See, Wit is soulless. The reason being he lacks brevity. He's too involved and loves a good story. So, he over does it. Therefore, if "Brevity is the soul of Wit" and Wit lacks brevity, then Wit must, in fact, be soulless... case closed. That's why a Shardblade can't "offer [him] any real harm." Because there isn't a soul to cut. 4
Redbird he/him Posted January 28, 2015 Posted January 28, 2015 Or it will not harm him because he heals based on the spiritual realm, not cognitive like what we have seen with healing so far.
Darkness he/him Posted January 29, 2015 Posted January 29, 2015 That's what I'm thinking too. Wit pretty much has to have a soul because otherwise the shardblade would physically shear through his body... although he could probably heal from that too. It would be interesting to know how he would heal from a shardblade going through his CNS though.
CabbageHead he/him Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 That's what I'm thinking too. Wit pretty much has to have a soul because otherwise the shardblade would physically shear through his body... although he could probably heal from that too. It would be interesting to know how he would heal from a shardblade going through his CNS though. I'm pretty sure there's a WoB out there saying that if Hoid's head was severed, he would grow a new one. I think his central nervous system being removed completely sounds more serious than it being cut. I wonder though.... he hints at the leresium bead being inside his body. I wonder if someone with a blade could get lucky and cut off bits of his body that, while they might regrow, contain things that are irreplaceable?
Eilemelie Posted February 10, 2015 Posted February 10, 2015 I'm pretty sure there's a WoB out there saying that if Hoid's head was severed, he would grow a new one. I can confirm this as I saw it just days ago. There was also something about shardblades posing no threat to him as the magic he uses heals the soul.
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