Subastrals and DnD's Planescape setting

[Ixthos he/him]

A quick note: I haven't played DnD or a table top role playing game before, though I think some of them are fascinating. This is from the perspective of someone who has never played Planescape - or the video game Planescape: Torment - though who has looked up information on it in the past, and this is something I find interesting.

 

This topic relates to spren, the cognitive realm, the regions therein, and the idea of the outer planes in DnD, and to a concept from 4th edition DnD.

From what I've been able to gather, in Planescape in DnD, there are several types of planes. I would like to talk about a few of them quickly, being the Prime Material Plane, The Outer Planes, the Astral Plane, and the 4th edition concept of the Astral Sea. Also, a brief mention of the Elemental Planes and Elementals. And Sigil.

 

In DnD the general ideas and beliefs of the inhabitants of the prime material plane - the physical universe, or perhaps physical universes, so not just one but many, and the different worlds and planets within them - combine and pool together into planes of reality representing certain ideas and groups of ideas, which generally reflect the alignments. So there are nine planes outside of the prime that represent each of the general alignments in DnD, being lawful good, neutral good, chaotic good, lawful neutral, true neutral, chaotic neutral, lawful evil, neutral evil, and chaotic evil, and eight planes that represent the disparity between adjacent ideas. Each is an entire world shaped by the beliefs of the inhabitants of the prime, and when someone in the prime dies they travel to one of those planes based on their beliefs and alignment. Those planes are inhabited by being which are made from the material that composes the outer planes and reflect those beliefs, being native to those worlds and thus funding the prime alien even though the ideas that shaped the plane originate there, due to the fixed nature of the prime that isn't affected by belief. Connecting those planes to the prime (and maybe to one another, I am not sure) is the astral plane, a plane that has no size or dimension but seems to itself be based on belief. It connects the outer planes of thought to the prime plane of matter. In DnD 4th edition that plane and the outer planes were combined together, in a sense - if I understand it correctly - making the outer planes islands in the astral sea, places of thought floating in the sea of ideas.

DnD also has the idea of the inner planes. While the prime material is also an inner plane, there are also the inner planes of the elemental planes and energy planes. Those represent the ideas of elements that underlie reality, not belief but substance. Those are inhabited by elementals, which are also formed from the substance of the plane they originate from, and likewise find the prime strange, though in the sense that it is a combination of multiple elements rather than being "pure" like they are.

Finally, in Planescape, there is a city called Sigil, which sits in the Outlands, the true neutral outer plane, at the top of a spire and connected by portals to every other plane, serving as a hub for planar travel and a place where beings from every plane can mingle without the risk of war breaking out due to the warden of that city, a being called the Lady of Pain who controls the city and can trap or kill anything, including the settings gods, if they try to interfere with the city or bother her.

 

So, how does this relate to the Cosmere? Because I think the cognitive realm, and the idea of subastrals, is partially a mirror to this element of DnD done in a more rigorous and grounded manner.

The different planets in the Cosmere have their own beliefs, but rather than forming new planes, they form the shape of the cognitive realm - the subastral - of the planet (though it isn't clear if subastral refers to the cognitive realm for a single planet, or for an entire solar system). Indeed, each named region of the cognitive realm is evocative of an ethereal, otherworldy place, such as Shadesmar, the Expanse of the Vapours, the Expanse of Vibrance,  the Expanse of Densities, and so on. Each name implies something unique and strange about each location, and the two we have seen are indeed alien, and while similar to one another in some ways they certainly are different in others. Each in theory shaped by the beliefs of the planets' inhabitants into something unique, and possibly further shaped by the shards, or by the Power of Creation before that.

More than that, each also potentially could have inhabitants who are unique and uniquely shaped to each world. We already know about spren, and seons and skaze are likewise beings theoretically more in tune with the cognitive realm than the physical realm. Beings who, in Roshar's case, seem like a mixture between elementals and outsiders, not made of the elements but the idea and belief about the elements. Indeed, I think voidspren then can be seen as a type of outsider also, and ones different to the Rosharan type.

Of course, not every planet has spren, and Roshar is unique in that the number present are due to Honours death, but if stormlight is getting exported off world, it wouldn't be a massive stretch to think that the spren which have already left the system - which we know is possible though not common - could potentially form communities on other subastrals and become subsequently shaped by the inhabitants beliefs into new types of spren, ones reflecting the nature of the worlds they now inhabit and the investiture they may feed upon.

 

In this sense the cognitive realm - shadesmar, the sea of thoughts - is like the astral sea, and the subastrals are the outer planes, only not grounded in another abstract world but in the layer of thought around a planet and connecting the planets, worlds of belief grounded around the sources and targets of those beliefs. And, of course, the dead who are able to hang around become a part of those subastrals also.

 

What of Sigil? This is a stretch, and we don't know if FTL portals are possible in the Cosmere, but I think Silverlight might be the equivalent, unless there are more cities in the cognitive realm (which I doubt. And once again, I will say I am convinced that Silverlight is built on top of Ambition's corpse). A city in the middle of this sea of worlds, a trading hub where people from different worlds can meet. A place which potentially opens up the rest of the Cosmere for anyone from any world to reach any other.

 

What are your thoughts? :-)

[Bremen]

15 hours ago, Ixthos said:

What are your thoughts? :-)

You need to play Planescape: Torment

[Ixthos he/him]

4 hours ago, Bremen said:

You need to play Planescape: Torment

:-P I am watching a playthrough of it, but based on what I know about the plot and the game mechanics (... biting off your own fingers ... and what the Practical did ... :-( ) I can't bring myself to play it. Still, from everything I've seen it is an amazingly well told story. Also, the villain was voiced by Tony Jay - his voice is one of the greatest voices in acting! Megabyte was a great villain in ReBoot too.

[KSub]

One of my all time favorite games. Amazing story, a wild cast of characters that somehow work within that crazy world, so much world building hinting at all of these other planes of existence. 

The game play was okay at the time but would seem slow and dated today. However, walking Sims are a thing so why not.

What can change the nature of a man?

planescape:torment 

[Ixthos he/him]

13 hours ago, KSub said:

One of my all time favorite games. Amazing story, a wild cast of characters that somehow work within that crazy world, so much world building hinting at all of these other planes of existence. 

The game play was okay at the time but would seem slow and dated today. However, walking Sims are a thing so why not.

What can change the nature of a man?

planescape:torment 

Indeed! Everything I've seen about it shows it has an intricate and brilliantly told story. Here's hoping Silverlight is as diverse as Sigil :-P

[KSub]

On 01/01/2021 at 10:39 AM, Ixthos said:

Indeed! Everything I've seen about it shows it has an intricate and brilliantly told story. Here's hoping Silverlight is as diverse as Sigil :-P

That just broke my brain. I'm even more excited for a silver light book!