Hoid/Adolnasium theory

[Hearty_Joe]

Upon a re-reading of Taravangian's Ascension, a thought popped into my head; A human (or dragon...) has to abandon his or her body when Ascending to Godhood and becoming a Shard's vessel. Their bodies seem to vanish from the physical realm as they enter the cognitive realm. Well, what would happen if the opposite happened? What if an innately Godly being Descended, would it now have a body after having left it's cognitive self behind?

And now for a crazy completely unproven theory based upon my thought.  I never read Dragonsteel Prime which may straight out debunk my theory, but here goes... What if Adolnasium allowed himself to be killed for the betterment of the Cosmere and his creations. (Pick your reason. Maybe he loved his creations so much he wanted to be amongst them, maybe he felt his rule limited the capabilities of his creations, whatever reason you want.) He therefore gave his beloved creations the tools to "kill him", splintering his powers amongst the Cosmere for his creations to take up and use themselves.  When the splintering occurred, Adolnasium Descended and left a physical manifestation of himself behind. A physical shadow if you will, in the form of Hoid. Hoid is in fact the "Father of the Cosmere". Hear me out.

Hoid was present at the Shattering.

Hoid is always present when events affecting the Cosmere are occurring, much like a parent who checks up on the life events of a grown son even after the grown son has moved out and is on his own.

Hoid will stop at nothing to protect the Cosmere, because its his Cosmere. Yes, he will see Roshar burn if he has to, but wouldn't a parent ask surgeons to remove a son's cancerous limb if it meant ensuring the overall health of the son? 

Hoid seems intent on helping members of the Cosmere achieve their potential, much like a parent always wishes to be there with needed encouragement to help his children achieve theirs.

Hoid likes to collect the different powers of shards, he is in fact trying to pick up pieces of himself, trying to make himself whole. 

Okay, thanks for hearing me out. I just get the sense of Hoid being almost omniscient in the Cosmere. He seems to be more of a force than a person.

[Kingsdaughter613]

3 hours ago, Hearty_Joe said:

Upon a re-reading of Taravangian's Ascension, a thought popped into my head; A human (or dragon...) has to abandon his or her body when Ascending to Godhood and becoming a Shard's vessel. Their bodies seem to vanish from the physical realm as they enter the cognitive realm. Well, what would happen if the opposite happened? What if an innately Godly being Descended, would it now have a body after having left it's cognitive self behind?

And now for a crazy completely unproven theory based upon my thought.  I never read Dragonsteel Prime which may straight out debunk my theory, but here goes... What if Adolnasium allowed himself to be killed for the betterment of the Cosmere and his creations. (Pick your reason. Maybe he loved his creations so much he wanted to be amongst them, maybe he felt his rule limited the capabilities of his creations, whatever reason you want.) He therefore gave his beloved creations the tools to "kill him", splintering his powers amongst the Cosmere for his creations to take up and use themselves.  When the splintering occurred, Adolnasium Descended and left a physical manifestation of himself behind. A physical shadow if you will, in the form of Hoid. Hoid is in fact the "Father of the Cosmere". Hear me out.

Hoid was present at the Shattering.

Hoid is always present when events affecting the Cosmere are occurring, much like a parent who checks up on the life events of a grown son even after the grown son has moved out and is on his own.

Hoid will stop at nothing to protect the Cosmere, because its his Cosmere. Yes, he will see Roshar burn if he has to, but wouldn't a parent ask surgeons to remove a son's cancerous limb if it meant ensuring the overall health of the son? 

Hoid seems intent on helping members of the Cosmere achieve their potential, much like a parent always wishes to be there with needed encouragement to help his children achieve theirs.

Hoid likes to collect the different powers of shards, he is in fact trying to pick up pieces of himself, trying to make himself whole. 

Okay, thanks for hearing me out. I just get the sense of Hoid being almost omniscient in the Cosmere. He seems to be more of a force than a person.

Hoid is older than the Shattering.

[danex]

I believe this is one of the most Recurring theories on the shard, and Brandon always leaves questions related to it unanswered. 

We do know that Brandon had the idea of Hoid before he developed Adonalsium or any of the “Adonalsium being shattered” plot line. He could have integrated Hoid into the Ado story later, but I personally doubt it. 

[Hearty_Joe]

59 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Hoid is older than the Shattering.

Indeed. I don't think that is inconsistent with my theory as (How do I hide Mistborn spoilers?) I would consider The Hero of Ages to be older than Harmony. If you get my reference...

Edited December 14, 2020 by Hearty_Joe

[Hearty_Joe]

2 minutes ago, Ookla the Disproportionate said:

I believe this is one of the most Recurring theories on the shard, and Brandon always leaves questions related to it unanswered. 

We do know that Brandon had the idea of Hoid before he developed Adonalsium or any of the “Adonalsium being shattered” plot line. He could have integrated Hoid into the Ado story later, but I personally doubt it. 

Ah, so much for my "physical shadow" idea being original. I still like the theory though. It makes sense to me that if a physical being would leave behind a cognitive shadow it follows that a cognitive being would leave behind a physical one.

[danex]

2 minutes ago, Hearty_Joe said:

Ah, so much for my "physical shadow" idea being original.

I think that specific part is pretty original, or at least it’s better thought out than some others, I was just referring to the fact that there’s always some version of the “Hoid is Ado” theory floating around. 
 

Yeah here’s a WoB from 2017 that’s rather similar. Not exactly the same, but similar. 

Quote

Questioner

So, Hoid was there during the Shattering of Adonalsium. Odium is going around, like, destroying other Shards. We know that Hoid is collecting and has pieces of some of the other Shards.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Since Hoid was there at the original Shattering of Adonalsium. Is there an echo image of the original Adonalsium in Hoid?

Brandon Sanderson

Uh, that's a RAFO. Here's your card. But it is a valid theory.

Questioner

I have a two-parter on that.

Brandon Sanderson

You can ask me the next part, but it is a RAFO.

Questioner

Is his end goal trying to join as many pieces of Adonalsium together to *inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

Um, that, I will give a "that's a very good guess." And that is what the books seem to indicate is happening.

Salt Lake City ComicCon 2017 (Sept. 21, 2017)

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Ookla the Disproportionate

[scyron]

I like this theory.

Although I do think it is very improbable.  I feel like the Shards would give more deference or at least respect to Hoid if he really were the physical manifestation of Adonalsium. 

Also Secret History Spoilers

Spoiler

Khriss tells Kelsier that Adonalsium was "killed/murdered"

And 

Quote

 

imriel452 (Paraphrased)

I asked for "Info on why Adonalsium shattered".

Brandon Sanderson

Adonalsium Shattered because he was killed.

General Signed Books 2016 (Feb. 1, 2016)

 

 

So Adonalsium was definitely killed, but that doesn't totally leave out the possibility that he left a shadow behind. 

 

Quote

 

Rider of Storms

Did Adonalsium (or its Vessel) leave a Cognitive Shadow behind? If so, where is it?

Brandon Sanderson

RAFO.

Oathbringer release party (Nov. 13, 2017)

 

 

So I like your thinking, but in my opinion if there is a shadow it's not very likely that it is Hoid, but who knows crazier things have happened.

 

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Hoid is older than the Shattering.

So is Adonalsium.

Edited December 14, 2020 by scyron

[Kingsdaughter613]

13 minutes ago, Hearty_Joe said:

Indeed. I don't think that is inconsistent with my theory as (How do I hide Mistborn spoilers?) I would consider The Hero of Ages to be older than Harmony. If you get my reference...

Spoiler

I meant that we see Midius (Hoid) in the unpublished Liar of Partinel long before the Shattering. And Hoid as a person and Dawnshard existed before the Shattering. And we know that the Dawnshards were used to Shatter Adonalsium.

@scyron See above. I clarified.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Kingsdaughter613

[scyron]

4 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

  Hide contents

I meant that we see Midius (Hoid) in the unpublished Liar of Partinel long before the Shattering. And Hoid as a person and Dawnshard existed before the Shattering. And we know that the Dawnshards were used to Shatter Adonalsium.

@scyron See above. I clarified.

Gotcha, yeah that's a good point.

[Hearty_Joe]

18 minutes ago, Ookla the Disproportionate said:

Yeah here’s a WoB from 2017 that’s rather similar. Not exactly the same, but similar. 

Yeah I see. Thanks for those WoB. Like you said, I think that's more loose than my physical shadow theory.

 

9 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

  Reveal hidden contents

I meant that we see Midius (Hoid) in the unpublished Liar of Partinel long before the Shattering. And Hoid as a person and Dawnshard existed before the Shattering. And we know that the Dawnshards were used to Shatter Adonalsium.

@scyron See above. I clarified.

I didn't realize Liar of Partinel occurred pre-shattering. Is it still canon? And is it confirmed that Hoid as a dawnshard was pre-shattering? Also I think it possible Adolnasium allowed the dawnshards to be used to kill him. It's possible he wanted to give up his Godhood and that was the only way...

But yes, if Hoid was around as a man prior  to the shattering. Then my theory of him being a physical shadow is, well, shattered.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Hearty_Joe

[Lightdancer]

11 hours ago, Hearty_Joe said:

What if Adolnasium allowed himself to be killed for the betterment of the Cosmere and his creations.

Dawnshard spoilers below.

Spoiler

There's a passage in Dawnshard where Adonalsium is described to have "understood" the motivations of his killers...

I like this theory, despite some of the issues with it. Here's my crack at solving them.

We know that at least part of Tanavast's cognitive shadow merged with the Stormfather. (This might not actually be cannon.) What if the same happened with Adonalsium and Hoid? Perhaps Hoid was an ordinary person before the Shattering, but was fused with Adonalsium's cognitive shadow?

There's absolutely no evidence for this theory, but it sounds cool.

[Obsidian_]

I remember a part where Hoid talks about being tricked by Rayse and someone else to kill Adonalsium and that he himself feel betrayed. However, I can't remember exactly so I may be at fault