Heralds' bond to their honorblades are better than a human's

[Bloodless]

I always had the problem that Szeth's Honorblade in books 1, 2 was much inferior to a Radiant's blade.

If that was the case, why was Heralds supposed to be considered way way stronger than normal Radiants? For example, some epigraph said a Herald (Nale? or Ishar?) threatened to wipe a Radiant order out if they didn't do as he/she said (I don't remember the details, maybe someone more in touch with the lore can give more details). I wondered whether the Honorblade responded much much better (superior to how a Radiant blade responds) to Jezrien's hand than Szeth's or Moash's hand. 

From RoW I think this is confirmed at least partially. Ishar's fight showed that he could summon the Honorblade without the 10 heartbeat limit. Because in that fight he did something Brandon calls "skepping", which is dematerializing and rematerializing the blade quickly to go past a proper parry. This would be impossible with the heartbeat limit. Nale also dropped the blade before attacking Dalinar, something he wouldn't risk if he couldn't instantly resummon it if things started to go south (for instance, if Szeth drew Nightblood).

Maybe Szeth (and the humans) can only ever have a partial bond with a Honorblade. The full bond is always with the original Herald. Maybe the Stormlight efficiency problem also will not affect the Heralds as much as it did the humans. What do you guys think?

[Honorless he/him]

Quote

Questioner

Based on what we know currently about ten heartbeats, why does Szeth require ten heartbeats to bring forth his Honorblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Perception is a very important part of how these things all work, and remember the Honorblades work differently from everything else. Everything was based upon them. Why don't you read and find out what's going on there, but remember that the characters's perception is very important.

Questioner

So then that's why at one point Shallan requires ten heartbeats and now she doesn't?

Brandon Sanderson

Right, it's the exact same reason that Kaladin's forehead wounds don't heal. Because he views himself as having those somewhere deep inside of him and he can't heal until that gets away. And it works for the same reason why in Warbreaker when you bring something to life, your intention rather than really what you say is what matters. It's all about perception.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

The ten heartbeats thing might be because they thought it should take ten heartbeats and so it actually took ten heartbeats

[Ishar]

4 hours ago, Bloodless said:

I always had the problem that Szeth's Honorblade in books 1, 2 was much inferior to a Radiant's blade.

If that was the case, why was Heralds supposed to be considered way way stronger than normal Radiants?

1. Heralds were the best fighters. This is brought up in the scene with Ishar in RoW, Ishar is considered kinda a meh fighter for a herald, and he still beats Dalinar and his group of windrunners easily. I would assume this is mainly because they had thousands of years of practice, but still.

2. Heralds were also able to draw stormlight from what we assume was directly from Honor (they had access to immense amounts of it without needing gemstones or a perpendicularity, although I don't know if how this actually worked has been confirmed), which is an enormous advantage. This ability also makes one of the biggest disadvantages of an honorblade compared to a Nahel bond obsolete for heralds, as they have enough stormlight that the faster consumption by honorblades doesn't matter to them.

[Lupis]

Well a lot of it will be down to knowledge and experience. The Heralds know the full capabilities of the honorblades, they also have many many years experience with them and how to best use them. Then there is the fact that they don't have a spren bond that can act counter to the users wishes, if they don't agree to what they are intending to do with the powers.

I don't think it's as simple as either are superior or inferior, they are just different and have different strengths and weaknesses, with some crossover abilities.

[+Harrycrapper]

1 hour ago, Ishar said:

1. Heralds were the best fighters. This is brought up in the scene with Ishar in RoW, Ishar is considered kinda a meh fighter for a herald, and he still beats Dalinar and his group of windrunners easily. I would assume this is mainly because they had thousands of years of practice, but still.

2. Heralds were also able to draw stormlight from what we assume was directly from Honor (they had access to immense amounts of it without needing gemstones or a perpendicularity, although I don't know if how this actually worked has been confirmed), which is an enormous advantage. This ability also makes one of the biggest disadvantages of an honorblade compared to a Nahel bond obsolete for heralds, as they have enough stormlight that the faster consumption by honorblades doesn't matter to them.

There's also the fact that humans can't handle massive amounts of Stormlight without consequences, though that gets better as the bond progresses to new ideals. Even with the 5th Ideal, there is probably a limit to how much Stormlight a Radiant could handle before they start looking like Kaladin did before swearing the 2nd Ideal at the end of WoK. I have a feeling Heralds have no such limit

[Master Silver]

5 hours ago, Harrycrapper said:

There's also the fact that humans can't handle massive amounts of Stormlight without consequences, though that gets better as the bond progresses to new ideals. Even with the 5th Ideal, there is probably a limit to how much Stormlight a Radiant could handle before they start looking like Kaladin did before swearing the 2nd Ideal at the end of WoK. I have a feeling Heralds have no such limit

As cognitive shadows given physical form they likely have different limits than humans with bodies. Also, they are directly connected to a Shard. Their cognitive aspects/wills remain independent, but I imagine you must rip away their bond (Jezrien) or (and so far only Nightblood has managed it) destroy their honor blade. I do agree that the bond is different, but I think two heads are better than one. Syl has kept Kaladin alive plenty of times. 

[Xerun]

Perception id say. Syl states to Kaladin that Szeth’s blade would let her become a “Windrunner and more” 

 

so there is obviously stuff there but as Syl says in Rhythm of War. There is more to their powers but no one has had time to play with them and experiment. 

[Bloodless]

20 hours ago, Honorless said:

The ten heartbeats thing might be because they thought it should take ten heartbeats and so it actually took ten heartbeats

Does this mean a normal dead-Shardblade has no ten heartbeat limit either if the owner knows about it?

[Aspiring Writer]

41 minutes ago, Bloodless said:

Does this mean a normal dead-Shardblade has no ten heartbeat limit either if the owner knows about it?

I don't think so, as that limit had to come from somewhere. People wouldn't randomly think that after seeing radiants do it instantaneously. It's probably a rule of deadblades.