Scary Yunfah theory

[Mason Wheeler]

I've been thinking about Yunfah lately, the recalcitrant Honorspren who lost his Radiant.  Kaladin's been trying to get him to bond Rlain, but Rlain doesn't want a pity-spren...

...but what if he's not destined for someone in Kaladin's WIndrunner corps at all?

In Oathbringer and in the preview chapters for Rhythm of War we've seen, with characters like Szeth, the Skybreakers, Venli, and Malata, that the "Radiants vs Odium" divide isn't quite as clear-cut as one might originally think.  And now with Yunfah injured from the loss of his Radiant, perhaps not quite in his right mind, look at who we recently found out is about to return to Urithiru, with past experience among the Windrunners but no spren bond!

Horrifying thought, isn't it?

Edited October 23, 2020 by Mason Wheeler

[+Bzhydack]

29 minutes ago, Mason Wheeler said:

  And now with Yunfah injured from the loss of his Radiant, perhaps not quite in his right mind, look at who we recently found out is about to return to Urithiru, with past experience among the Windrunners but no spren bond!

Dont think so. We know that death of Radiant not affect Sprenvery much, if Radiant kept his Oaths to the end. Moash is driven by vengence, and this is not what Honorspren are OK with.

But maybe in fact something is in the air, and is one person, who indeed will be in Urithiru soon, and has very good sense of honor. Leshwi

[Mason Wheeler]

1 minute ago, Bzhydack said:

Dont think so. We know that death of Radiant not affect Sprenvery much, if Radiant kept his Oaths to the end. Moash is driven by vengence, and this is not what Honorspren are OK with.

But maybe in fact something is in the air, and is one person, who indeed will be in Urithiru soon, and has very good sense of honor. Leshwi

Ooooooohhhhhhh, now that would be interesting!

I find it unlikely, though.  The Honor version of honor seems to be an extremely narrow definition.  Leshwi fights with "honorableness" in combat, but Honor seems to refer only to keeping your word and especially to keeping promises, rather than what you and I would consider "honorable behavior."

[LuckyJim]

I think as a Fused, Leshwi is just too Invested to be able to actually form a spren bond, not to mention she gets her power directly from Odium.

My guess is although Yunfah is against it now, he will eventually decide to bond with Rlain of his own volition.

It would be cool though if in RoW Moash decides to ally with the Listeners, prioritizing protecting the singers over revenge on the kingdoms of humans, which leads to him becoming a real Windrunner.

[Xerun]

I feel like R’lain won’t bond Yunfah at all or any honorspren at all. Since reading chapter 15 I’ve been set on R’lain for Bondsmith to Nightwatcher. He’s spent a lot of time trying to unite everyone and gets annoyed when people compare him to the Fused. He also has good knowledge and connection to cultivation. 
 

as for Yunfah I feel like the Spren have set personalities so even with a complete mind wipe they need to find someone who shows honor that they instinctively know as honor.
 

IMO Moash won’t ever bond an honorspren because he doesn’t show honor. Ultimately I think Yunfah will just go with one of the current squires. 

[LuckyJim]

1 hour ago, Xerun said:

IMO Moash won’t ever bond an honorspren because he doesn’t show honor. Ultimately I think Yunfah will just go with one of the current squires. 

Debatable, I mean when he was a slave he straight up attacked a Fused who was abusing Sah and Khen's group. It wasn't even out of anger, he just didn't want to see them become like humans when they have a chance to be better than them. He then helped them learn to fight when they were being sent in the siege on Kholinar, essentially as a suicide mission, which has some strong parallels to Kaladin and Bridge 4.

Moash is a villain to humans, and I don't think he's ever going to return to them, but he can be a hero to the singers.

[Xerun]

2 hours ago, LuckyJim said:

Debatable, I mean when he was a slave he straight up attacked a Fused who was abusing Sah and Khen's group. It wasn't even out of anger, he just didn't want to see them become like humans when they have a chance to be better than them. He then helped them learn to fight when they were being sent in the siege on Kholinar, essentially as a suicide mission, which has some strong parallels to Kaladin and Bridge 4.

Moash is a villain to humans, and I don't think he's ever going to return to them, but he can be a hero to the singers.

He’s pretty far gone from them now. I also don’t think there will be any Honorspren who would join with the Fused. Most of the Spren seem to be against them with the exception of the Highspren (Skybreaker Spren that may be entirely different and I’m just having a mind blank)

[+Bzhydack]

15 hours ago, LuckyJim said:

I think as a Fused, Leshwi is just too Invested to be able to actually form a spren bond, not to mention she gets her power directly from Odium.

Hoid is much more Invested and he ia able to Bond spren.

Second thing can be more influencial, but maybe is possible to cancel Connection with Odium. Cognitive Shadow dont need to be constantly Connected to Shard to exist, he feeds on any Investiture. Conection to Odium is needet for two things - reincarnation and Surges. With Honorspren, Leshwi will have Surges, Highstorm will feed her. She will lose immortality, but really wants she be immortal?

EDIT: Also, Nale bonds Highspren, and he is storming Herald.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Bzhydack

[LuckyJim]

12 hours ago, Xerun said:

He’s pretty far gone from them now. I also don’t think there will be any Honorspren who would join with the Fused. Most of the Spren seem to be against them with the exception of the Highspren (Skybreaker Spren that may be entirely different and I’m just having a mind blank)

Far gone from who? If it's the humans, then yeah, I don't think they'd ever take him back or that he'd ever want to go back in the first place, but I'm assuming that this would happen if Moash joined the Listeners. If it's the singers then I don't think we've seen enough to make that assumption, we've only seen him on a battlefield and at a meeting with the Fused, we don't know how his relationship with ordinary singers has changed or developed, but considering the end of Oathbringer I feel like he was being built up as an important leader to them.

If you think he's just too far gone in general, then that's fair. This whole theory is assuming he can break Odium's influence in the first place and set aside his desire for revenge to focus on protecting and supporting the singers in the first place, which I'll admit is a bit of a stretch.

Also, we already know there are some spren willing to support the new Listener faction, since Timbre has said there are more like her willing to bond with singers in the first place, and some might find the idea more palatable if they can bond with humans who support the Listeners instead.

3 hours ago, Bzhydack said:

Hoid is much more Invested and he ia able to Bond spren.

Second thing can be more influencial, but maybe is possible to cancel Connection with Odium. Cognitive Shadow dont need to be constantly Connected to Shard to exist, he feeds on any Investiture. Conection to Odium is needet for two things - reincarnation and Surges. With Honorspren, Leshwi will have Surges, Highstorm will feed her. She will lose immortality, but really wants she be immortal?

EDIT: Also, Nale bonds Highspren, and he is storming Herald.

Well, Hoid is Hoid, I think we can accept that he's a bit of an exception.

My main point comes from a WoB, where Brandon states it's hard for heavily invested people to form a Nahel bond, because Investiture tends to resist Investiture (the example he used in this case was a Returned bonding a spren). Granted, I misremembered the quote, he said it was difficult but not impossible.

Questioner

Can a Returned gain a Nahel bond?

Brandon Sanderson

It is not outside the realm of possibility. Much more easy than Nightblood [gaining a Nahel bond]. Invested things resist other Investiture and so it depends on amounts of Investiture and it depends on a lot of factors. But that one's a mixing that could happen.

Bands of Mourning release party (Jan. 25, 2016)

I think a Fused becoming a Radiant would be more difficult than a Herald but it could be possible. That being said, I think the main difficulty would be other parties allowing it to happen. Mainly Odium, who might be able to kill her before she could actually make the bond, and I doubt Yunfah would be that willing to bond her in the first place. He wouldn't bond a member of Bridge 4 because he's a listener, I don't think one of his immortal enemies would seem much more appealing.

[Realmatic Shadow]

On 24/10/2020 at 2:54 AM, Mason Wheeler said:

...look at who we recently found out is about to return to Urithiru, with past experience among the Windrunners but no spren bond!

Horrifying thought, isn't it?

Please never say anything like this again. I do not want any inkling of the idea that that monster could have a spren bond!

On a more serious note: This is somewhat viable, though I don't think its very likely. The trouble is that he isn't representing the ideals very well currently, and if this is to be a successful bond he would need to do better. And I refuse to think of the possibility of Yunfah being killed by this bond, even if it would be something Brandon might do.

The trouble with Leshwi isn't so much Odium's Investiture, but her connection to his side (and her Connection, but that probably only causes trouble when an bond is even considered), many Radiant Spren may not even consider a bond with a Singer, and especially not with one of the Fused, and that means that Investiture and Connection interfering may not even play a part.