If you were a Ruler in Roshar pre-Everstorm

[Schneeente]

Basically what I want to know is: How would you have acted if you knew what Jasnah knew at the time just before the Everstorm. You have the same sources and clues available she has. Imagine she visited you in your kingdom and explained it to you. What would you have done? 

 

Do you:

1. Execute all Parshmen - regardless of how many other kingdoms do it 

2. Execute all Parshmen - under the condition that enough other kingdoms do the same

3. You don't believe the information - it's ridiculous after all. You nevertheless order your researchers to investigate. 

4. You bet on the chance that this transformation won't happen - that way your kingdom has a gigantic economic advantage compared to those who executed their Parshmen

5. Genocide is wrong. Period. Doesn't matter if the claims are true or not, you won't execute an entire species because they MIGHT become a foe in the future. You don't do anything with your information. 

6. You imprison them

7. You exile them

8. You talk to them

9. Jasnah is a herectic. The Allmighty will protect the faithful. You start praying.

 

 

Let's see how today's morality deals with that nasty problem. Looking forward to the discussion. 

 

/edit: I just realized that I posted it in the wrong forum. Can somebody move it to "Stormlight Archive"? It's not a question that needs RoW spoiler information to be answered. 

Edited October 17, 2020 by Schneeente

[Xerun]

As ruler I wouldn’t be on board with the slavery so I can’t imagine I’d have them as slaves. But with the knowledge the characters had at the time (a lot of Jasnah’s information coming from offhand stories) I’d most likely not believe it. If I did believe them I think I’d most likely exile them and make sure they were self sufficient but kept at a distance from the place i was in charge of. 

[Proletariat]

You release them from slavery, and start researching how to help them find an alternative to regaining sentience without Odium. If Navani can build a flying ship out of fabrials, then I'm sure people can figure something out to reunite singers with spren. It's only a small section of the population who benefited from enslavement of singers anyway, and having singers gainfully employed and participating in your culture is good for everyone.

There's no excuse for genocide ever, but it's also not the only way to act on the info.

[HipsterStick he/him]

6 hours ago, Proletariat said:

You release them from slavery, and start researching how to help them find an alternative to regaining sentience without Odium. If Navani can build a flying ship out of fabrials, then I'm sure people can figure something out to reunite singers with spren. It's only a small section of the population who benefited from enslavement of singers anyway, and having singers gainfully employed and participating in your culture is good for everyone.

There's no excuse for genocide ever, but it's also not the only way to act on the info.

I love this post and your username just makes it better.

This question is tricky. I know how I personally would react- I would try my best to talk to and understand them- but I imagine the culture of Roshar is different enough from our modern culture that if I had been raised there, my answer would be different. Also, hindsight is often 20/20- in the moment, making these kinds of decisions it’s limited information would be very stressful, which could lead to less than desirable actions.

[Kuram]

In context, number 3 makes the most sense.  Maybe #4 for some countries.  Jasnah's information was not definitive and relied on a lot of supposition, if you place yourself in the shoes of a ruler in Roshar it would be hard to consider the amount of upheaval required for such a change with such spotty information.

[Schneeente]

As a ruler your highest responsibility is to keep your population save. Considering how catastrophic it is if Jasnah's information are correct, shouldn't a responsible ruler do more than "talk to the parshmen"? They were subjugated for thousands of years, it's not like a nice talk in the last minute will change their grievances. Additionally they are in slave-form and are too stupid to hold a conversation anyway, so realistically talking with them doesn't work. 

"Gathering more information" is also a fools errand, what more could you possibly discover in the short time that Jasnah has not yet discovered? So both options are basically "to do nothing". In light of how parshmen are regarded, as utterly obedient slaves which have a monetary value (a bigger one than many darkeyes) shouldn't a ruler sacrifice this wealth to keep his population save? Since it is the most basic function a government is designed to provide. Safety. 

[Karger he/him]

10 hours ago, Proletariat said:

You release them from slavery, and start researching how to help them find an alternative to regaining sentience without Odium. If Navani can build a flying ship out of fabrials, then I'm sure people can figure something out to reunite singers with spren. It's only a small section of the population who benefited from enslavement of singers anyway, and having singers gainfully employed and participating in your culture is good for everyone.

Experimentation indicates that parshemen left to their own devices will just wait around doing nothing according to Gavilar's accounts.  While cultural superiority can be pretty strong I don't think it is strong enough that people would ignore a possible slave uprising or desertion.  Most slave holding societies have deeply entrenched fears of this despite any bravado.

[Proletariat]

3 hours ago, HipsterStick said:

I love this post and your username just makes it better.

Thanks!! 

49 minutes ago, Schneeente said:

As a ruler your highest responsibility is to keep your population save. Considering how catastrophic it is if Jasnah's information are correct, shouldn't a responsible ruler do more than "talk to the parshmen"? They were subjugated for thousands of years, it's not like a nice talk in the last minute will change their grievances. Additionally they are in slave-form and are too stupid to hold a conversation anyway, so realistically talking with them doesn't work. 

"Gathering more information" is also a fools errand, what more could you possibly discover in the short time that Jasnah has not yet discovered? So both options are basically "to do nothing". In light of how parshmen are regarded, as utterly obedient slaves which have a monetary value (a bigger one than many darkeyes) shouldn't a ruler sacrifice this wealth to keep his population save? Since it is the most basic function a government is designed to provide. Safety. 

We need to ask who subjugated the Singers though. It wasn't your average dark eyes, and despite everything the Singers seem to culturally identify with their region and without orders from Fused/Regals haven't been engaging in wanton violence against dark eyes from the depictions we've been given which is more than we can say for Dalinar before his redemption. We also have examples of characters like Rlain who have rejected the perspective of the Fused/Odium based on their relationships with dark eyes in Bridge Four. Singers might not feel so compassionate toward people like Amaram, but that's no great loss. 

3 minutes ago, Karger said:

Experimentation indicates that parshemen left to their own devices will just wait around doing nothing according to Gavilar's accounts.  While cultural superiority can be pretty strong I don't think it is strong enough that people would ignore a possible slave uprising or desertion.  Most slave holding societies have deeply entrenched fears of this despite any bravado.

I think it's important to also take it in context that chattel enslavement has lost support when it has ceased to be the most profitable way forward. In this context the light eyes who own Singers as slaves are basically being given the option of genocide (i.e exterminating their source of profit) or peace (integrating them into society) as the way to quell an uprising.

And normal people would cringe even at a genocide upon cats or dogs, so rounding up dark eyes to eliminate an enormous population of people which then entails a huge loss of free labour i.e profit for light eyes is the most massive own goal even for the most evil people, even if it were logistically possible.

[Aither of Olumpia]

I can remember when reading this part that I wanted to execute them all. I thought they were mindless empty shells waiting to be turned into voidbringers - ravaging monsters that destroy all in their path! When Shallan was hesitant to initiate a genocide I was outraged! The best form of defence is offence I reasoned... Felt bad learning they were actually sentient creatures in Oathbringer. Maybe it’s good I’m not a king. 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Aither of Olumpia

[ftl]

9 hours ago, Schneeente said:

 

"Gathering more information" is also a fools errand, what more could you possibly discover in the short time that Jasnah has not yet discovered?

Well, for one you could try and verify whether Jasnah's telling you the truth, or whether she's just trying to destabilize your country.

What's more likely - that Parshmen are secretly the voidbringers of legend and are about to all magically tranform into demons? Or that the storming Alethi are trying to stir up trouble again?

...yeah, unless you know you're in book 2 of a fantasy epic, the latter is gonna seem a heck of a lot more likely until the info is independently verified by someone with no connection to the warmongering Kholins.

[Schneeente]

6 hours ago, ftl said:

Well, for one you could try and verify whether Jasnah's telling you the truth, or whether she's just trying to destabilize your country.

What's more likely - that Parshmen are secretly the voidbringers of legend and are about to all magically tranform into demons? Or that the storming Alethi are trying to stir up trouble again?

...yeah, unless you know you're in book 2 of a fantasy epic, the latter is gonna seem a heck of a lot more likely until the info is independently verified by someone with no connection to the warmongering Kholins.

With "fools errand" I was not referring to the action itself, but that I doubt that some other scholars are able to find information that Jasnah hadn't yet uncovered, especially in the time-frame you have available. 

I agree, if Jasnah cannot convince Elhokar to kill / exile the parshmen first, the other monarchs will not lift a finger because they have to assume it's a plot.

On the other hand, there are some kingdoms more open towards science than others. While the Alethi place more value into battle-prowess I can imagine the Azish to be more open to her arguments... 

[agrabes]

If I were a ruler prior to the Everstorm, I would likely have had the same reaction that most leadership had.   I would not have believed Jasnah's claims without evidence.

Let's remember - at that time the people of the human nations of Roshar have no idea that Parshmen are (or have the capability to become) sentient.  Jasnah herself did not know it.  All factual evidence available to the humans of the time indicates that the Parshmen are intelligent animals, not intelligent beings on par with humans.  This was not slavery or subjugation of intelligent beings, this was the keeping of livestock.  The best equivalent to real life would be if it was common practice for humans to keep chimpanzees as animal workers.  Some people might consider it unethical to keep intelligent animals that are similar to humans as livestock, but it would not be seen by anyone as slavery.

Continue research, seek answers.  If, by some miracle, you get solid information that indicates the Parshmen would transform into Voidbringers, then you push to keep them separate and away from population centers.  Based on all known facts and the best Rosharan science the Parshmen would be classified as animals, but it's still unethical and distasteful to do a mass culling of animals.  Particularly intelligent ones.  Let them work on farms or in rural areas where they can't overwhelm human cities when/if they transform.  Then, if they do change you have a chance to mount a defense and protect most people from them if they go bad.