qwertyuiop he/him Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Hello, first time posting. I was rereading the prologue and found this paragraph Holding his breath, he clung to the Stormlight. He could still feel it leaking out. Stormlight could be held for only a short time, a few minutes at most. It leaked away, the human body too porous a container. He had heard that the Voidbringers could hold it in perfectly. But, then, did they even exist? His punishment declared that they didn't. His honor demanded that they did. (Sorry for no page number, I have the ebook version) It sounds like Szeth's truthlessness has something to do with the voidbringers. Also it sounds like voidbringers use stormlight for something (maybe Voidbinding?). I really have too little information on this to come up with a viable theory. If this has been discussed anywhere else I would really like to know about it.
CabbageHead he/him Posted September 23, 2011 Posted September 23, 2011 Hello, first time posting. I was rereading the prologue and found this paragraph (Sorry for no page number, I have the ebook version) It sounds like Szeth's truthlessness has something to do with the voidbringers. Also it sounds like voidbringers use stormlight for something (maybe Voidbinding?). I really have too little information on this to come up with a viable theory. If this has been discussed anywhere else I would really like to know about it. Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with voidbinding. But that same passage is one of the ones that I think about when I think (and most disagree with me) that Radiant Shardplate was supplied with stormlight by the Radiants, and not by infused gems. We know it is supplied power now by gems, but the Radiants themselves seem infused by stormlight in the few scenes we see them in, and... bah, sorry for hijacking the thread :S
Argent he/him Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 It could be that he got mixed up with the Voidbringers, which brought that punishment upon him.
Aashyma she/her Posted September 24, 2011 Posted September 24, 2011 Personally, I don't think it has anything to do with voidbinding. But that same passage is one of the ones that I think about when I think (and most disagree with me) that Radiant Shardplate was supplied with stormlight by the Radiants, and not by infused gems. We know it is supplied power now by gems, but the Radiants themselves seem infused by stormlight in the few scenes we see them in, and... bah, sorry for hijacking the thread :S I agree with this As for Szeth and the Voidbringers-there is so very little to go on that I've only been able to come up with wild guesses.
Cheese Ninja he/him Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) It sounds like Szeth's truthlessness has something to do with the voidbringers. Also it sounds like voidbringers use stormlight for something (maybe Voidbinding?). I really have too little information on this to come up with a viable theory. If this has been discussed anywhere else I would really like to know about it. I'm reading that the exact opposite way. Being Truthless is his punishment, and his punishment declares that they don't exist. I'm pretty sure this line will be a lot easier to understand once we know the back story that led from him being a respected member of Shin society to becoming Truthless. Clearly, he felt that his honor required him to take whatever action (perhaps murder?) led to his punishment, so the real question here is "Why does Szeth believe Voidbringers exist?" “Shin are a curious folk,” he said. “Here, warriors are the lowliest of men—kind of like slaves. Men trade and sell them between houses by way of little stones that signify ownership, and any man who picks up a weapon must join them and be treated the same. The fellow in the fancy robe? He’s a farmer.” “You couldn’t trade me a soldier, could you?” Vstim asked as they waited. “They cannot be sold to an outsider, I am afraid.” “But there was that one you traded me…” “It’s been nearly seven years!” Thresh said with a laugh. “And still you ask!” “You don’t know what I got for him,” Vstim said. “And you gave him to me for practically nothing!” “He was Truthless,” Thresh said, shrugging. “He wasn’t worth anything at all. You forced me to take something in trade, though to confess, I had to throw your payment into a river. I could not take money for a Truthless.” “Well, I suppose I can’t take offense at that,” Vstim said, rubbing his chin. “But if you ever have another, let me know. Best servant I ever had. I still regret that I traded him.” “I will remember, friend,” Thresh said. “But I do not think it likely we will have another like him.” He seemed to grow distracted. “Indeed, I should hope that we never do….” Not every man who picks up a weapon becomes Truthless, Szeth is a big step below normal Shin warriors. It would be funny if he's being punished for killing a Thunderclast. Since they're the stone product of Voidbringers, and it would be difficult for him to prove that he wasn't slashing at holy rocks for no good reason after it was dead. I don't think we'll be seeing Szeth's backstory until after Dalinar's and Shallan's, probably because it would give away too much too early. Edited October 3, 2011 by Cheese Ninja 1
Ari he/him Posted October 8, 2011 Posted October 8, 2011 I'm reading that the exact opposite way. Being Truthless is his punishment, and his punishment declares that they don't exist. I'm pretty sure this line will be a lot easier to understand once we know the back story that led from him being a respected member of Shin society to becoming Truthless. Clearly, he felt that his honor required him to take whatever action (perhaps murder?) led to his punishment, so the real question here is "Why does Szeth believe Voidbringers exist?" Not every man who picks up a weapon becomes Truthless, Szeth is a big step below normal Shin warriors. It would be funny if he's being punished for killing a Thunderclast. Since they're the stone product of Voidbringers, and it would be difficult for him to prove that he wasn't slashing at holy rocks for no good reason after it was dead. I don't think we'll be seeing Szeth's backstory until after Dalinar's and Shallan's, probably because it would give away too much too early. Killing a Thunderclast was also my suspicion for why Szeth was Truthless.
Tortellini Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 That's a great idea, but where did the Thunderclast come from - Szeth was truthless for many years by the time Taln arrives and no one else ever seems to have seen one since. So that actually leaves a few interesting ideas (both purely speculative): - Szeth killed a hibernating/nascent/... Thunderclast, so he found one that was not active. - Szeth killing the first awakening Thunderclast actually somehow delayed the whole Desolation by several years. Which would be really funny in a sad kind of way - he would be punished this whole time because he saved the world. One thing - shouldn't the remains of the Thunderclast tell people there was something weird about that stone? Although that can be explained, maybe he reduced it to rubble...
Argent he/him Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Desolations, unless I am mistaken, are not events whose beginning can be clearly marked on your local calendar. One of Dalinar's visions (the one where he encounters the Midnight Essences) mentions that creatures of Damnation start showing up more and more often whenever a Desolation approaches. So while the Essences he and the two Knights fought were almost a clear sign that a Desolation was coming, one of the Knights was pretty sure that it wasn't there yet. This being said, assuming the thunderclast theory is right, that thunderclast could be just a harbinger.
Ari he/him Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 That's a great idea, but where did the Thunderclast come from - Szeth was truthless for many years by the time Taln arrives and no one else ever seems to have seen one since. So that actually leaves a few interesting ideas (both purely speculative): - Szeth killed a hibernating/nascent/... Thunderclast, so he found one that was not active. - Szeth killing the first awakening Thunderclast actually somehow delayed the whole Desolation by several years. Which would be really funny in a sad kind of way - he would be punished this whole time because he saved the world. One thing - shouldn't the remains of the Thunderclast tell people there was something weird about that stone? Although that can be explained, maybe he reduced it to rubble... You're assuming that Thunderclasts don't have anything to do with the Stone Shaman. (It's only a possibility, but it's hard to rule things out at this point)
Satsuoni he/him Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 Hm.. The Thunderclast theory is possible, of course. Although I have always thought that being Truthless is somehow connected to the Shardblade: the worst caste? status? for the strongest weapon. Maybe he picked up the weapon to kill the said Thunderclast, and was later punished for it (It seems that thunderclasts are almost impossible to kill otherwise). By the way, why would he reduce it to rubble? Also, this part: According to legend, the Shardblades were first carried by the Knights Radiant uncounted ages ago. Gifts of their god, granted to allow them to fight horrors of rock and flame, dozens of feet tall, foes whose eyes burned with hatred. The Voidbringers. When your foe had skin as hard as stone itself, steel was useless. Something supernal was required. may suggest that he was not familiar with Thunderclasts directly, although this is ambiguous.
CrazyRioter she/her Posted October 17, 2011 Posted October 17, 2011 The Shardblade is connected with his punishment somehow, he's specifically not allowed to give it up, even if somebody orders him to give it up, that suggests it's somehow connected with being Truthless, but there's one line from Taravangian about Szeth having been given the Blade by his people, which suggests that carrying it is actually part of his punishment, rather then the cause of it. OF course T. could have been wrong, but Szeth didn't correct him.
Tortellini Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 The Shardblade is connected with his punishment somehow, he's specifically not allowed to give it up, even if somebody orders him to give it up, that suggests it's somehow connected with being Truthless, but there's one line from Taravangian about Szeth having been given the Blade by his people, which suggests that carrying it is actually part of his punishment, rather then the cause of it. OF course T. could have been wrong, but Szeth didn't correct him. Szeth does say it himself once too - he is not allowed to give up the blade and the Stone Shamans will recover it once he is dead. That makes me wonder: how exactly will they recover it? Anyone could take it if Szeth dies, so there should be a high risk of losing the blade that way. Makes me wonder if his blade is not special somehow after all... ?
lordofsoup Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 Im curious about the fact that if somebody could kill Szeth and take his Shardblade, they would have to be pretty good. Are the Stone Shamans' so confidant in there abilities that they could get it back. People fight wars over Shardblades, and they would not want to give it up, just because the Stone Shamans say it is theirs. The Shin dont seem like such a warlike people, would they fight the Atheli or another nation for a Shardblade?
CrazyRioter she/her Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 I think the Stone Shamans must have access to some kind of magic, otherwise how could they possibly reclaim a Shardblade from somebody awesome enough to kill Szeth. Not like you can just sneak in and steal the thing.
happyman he/him Posted October 18, 2011 Posted October 18, 2011 I think the Stone Shamans must have access to some kind of magic, otherwise how could they possibly reclaim a Shardblade from somebody awesome enough to kill Szeth. Not like you can just sneak in and steal the thing. This has really, really got to be true. The fact that he thinks so calmly that they would come and take it means they must be seriously capable in at least one way. It makes me even more curious about the Shin. I'm half inclined to believe it would be a magic system the other people in Roshar have no experience with. This would help enormously if they tried to pull this stunt often. Maybe it's a form of stealth magic or mind magic.
Tortellini Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 This has really, really got to be true. The fact that he thinks so calmly that they would come and take it means they must be seriously capable in at least one way. It makes me even more curious about the Shin. I'm half inclined to believe it would be a magic system the other people in Roshar have no experience with. This would help enormously if they tried to pull this stunt often. Maybe it's a form of stealth magic or mind magic. Well, there's 2 ways of seeing this. One is that they only have a special way of recovering Szeth's blade. The other, way crazier option is that they actually know how to disable any shardbearer. That would mean the Shin could have kicked the whole continent's chull the whole time but chose not to. Rather unlikely, but given the way they feel about violence and warriors, it could, just possibly, be true...
Satsuoni he/him Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 Hm.. they are Shamans, and have something to do with souls, right? If he questioned Stone Shamanism, would he then question his nature as Truthless? Dangerous, dangerous. Though his murders and sins would damnation him, at least his soul would be given to the stones upon his death. He would continue to exist. Punished, in agony, but not exiled to nothingness..So I thought: AFAIK, the shardblades are stored in the Spritual Realm. Maybe the shamans can access this realm, and actually steal the Shardblade (only this one, or maybe even any one), regardless of its physical location. As for his punishment :you are right, he was given the thing, so they could not be punishing him for it. Could his Radiant nature have something to do with this? Maybe even like :"You are a Radiant Messiah! Take our sins and get out of the country with them."
Aashyma she/her Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) We're all assuming then, that it IS an ordinary Shardblade? From my understanding, if a darkeyed claims a Shardblade, his eye colour lightens-brown eyes become tan, dark greens become light and so on. Szeth's sword changes his eye colour from green to blue and this feel jarring to me. Edited October 19, 2011 by Aashyma
Satsuoni he/him Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 I don't remember it ever said which color the eyes become after taking shardblade. It is mentioned that they become light, but that is it. Maybe green becomes blue when losing pigment? Or maybe different Shardblades give different eye colors?
CrazyRioter she/her Posted October 19, 2011 Posted October 19, 2011 it does seem notable that Szeth's eyes become "sapphire" when he uses his Blade and that sapphire is the gem associated with the Windrunner order.
Argent he/him Posted October 20, 2011 Posted October 20, 2011 To me, it seems like the Radiants' glowing eyes have to do with Stormlight. You draw the Blade, it infuses you with (Storm)power, and your eyes are the most "transparent" outlet for that power to manifest.
Cold Fusion he/him Posted November 14, 2013 Posted November 14, 2013 When you get a shardblade, I think your eyes become lighter the more you use it, due to more and more exposure to the stormlight that is in it. Also, I agree with the idea that the stone shamans can reach through the spiritual realm. It makes sense for szeth to be so sure of them retrieving the blade.
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