Vasher's investiture on Roshar

[Dvir]

I just finished Warbreaker, and I read that Vasher is a world-hopper (known in Roshar as Zahel) and he came back because he was tired of sucking people's souls for a living. He can use stormlight as breaths instead.  So is there a stormlight-breath ratio? I mean how much stormlight is one breath, and if there is a ratio, why didn't Vasher just sucked in a lot of stormlight and became 10th heightening instantly?

[Honorless he/him]

We don't have an Investiture conversion ratio as of yet

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Questioner

I was wondering if there is a unit of Investiture, like maybe something Khriss uses.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but I haven't canonized it yet. Good question. I will eventually canonize it, because I think that people will want it, but I probably won't do so 'til [Mistborn] Era 3, because I want the scientific way of talking about the cosmere to mirror how developed the cultures are, but some of the scholars are beyond where everyone else is. It can be measured. There is a unit.

Questioner

Like, maybe grams of solid Investiture?

Brandon Sanderson

It will probably be an in-world unit of measurement. Right now, to talk about it online if you want, the unit is probably gonna be based around Breath, because a Breath is a distinct amount. Whereas in most of the settings, there's not a distinct amount. Like, how much Allomancy, things like that. How much can a gem hold. It really depends on how the gem is cut, and how long the gem has been out. So... the Breath is a really easy one, so it's become the unit. But there will probably be a fantasy term for it. I might just call it Breath. That's why I'm not canonized yet. But if you guys wanna talk about it in Breath terms, that's probably the easiest.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

Vasher isn't converting Stormlight to Breath, he just needs Investiture to survive. He can't use it for Awakening or reach the Heightenings

These WoBs should help:

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ZenBossanova (paraphrased)

Can Vasher use Stormlight to Awaken things?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

No, all it does is keep him alive. But he has tried and has not figured out how to Awaken things.

Firefight Phoenix signing (Jan. 21, 2015)

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Questioner

Would Vasher be able to use Stormlight in the same way that he can get Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

That would not be immediately easy, but Stormlight could feed Nightblood.

Questioner

Which is why Szeth can wield Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson

Eh, you'll have to see if but yes. That could theoretically happen. You can use most of the magics on most of the planets to fuel the other magics, if you know how to do it, it is not easy.

Words of Radiance Philadelphia signing (March 21, 2014)

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Questioner

So we already know that Vasher was Kaladin's trainer with a Shardblade, 'cause you told me that last time I asked you. So does Vasher just have a large mass of Biochromatic Breaths and that's how he's surviving, or is he somehow feeding off Stormlight while he is there?

Brandon Sanderson

He is feeding off of Stormlight, which is the primary reason why he came to Roshar. Investiture is easy to access in plentiful amounts.

Questioner

How did he know how to use Shardblades so well when he got there, is that related to how they created Nightblood

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, he has experience with Roshar from hundreds of years ago.

White Sand vol.1 Orem signing (June 29, 2016)

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R.E. (paraphrased)

Does Vasher have a different way of getting access to Stormlight than everyone else? Given that he has no spren, no honorblade and he isn't a squire?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes. He can use Stormlight to stay alive, but it doesn't let him Surgebind.

R.E. (paraphrased)

Could Szeth get access to this method?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes

R.E. (paraphrased)

And use it to fuel Nightblood?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

Yes he could.

R.E. (paraphrased)

Can you tell me what that method is?

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

*smiles*

Supanova 2017 - Sydney (June 18, 2017)

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Questioner

So assuming you have mentioned that it is technically possible to be able to use one magic system on another planet from a different one...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Is it possible to fuel that... Like, say could you fuel Awakening using Stormlight, or do you have to bring Breaths?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, you could!

Questioner

Okay.

Brandon Sanderson

Excellent question. Now it's-- there are tricks to making it happen on each world. Some are easier than others, but yes you can.

Questioner

So could that allow a loophole to maybe... convert from one form of power to another? Or like from Stormlight to Breath?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. In fact, that's part of why Vasher--

Questioner

Vasher. I wondered that.

Brandon Sanderson

--is on Roshar, is because it's a lot easier to get Stormlight than Breath.

Calamity release party (Feb. 16, 2016)

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Ilkhan2016

Breath and Stormlight are both forms of Investiture. AFAIK you can power any of the magic systems from any form of Investiture. Zahel is on Roshar, I believe, primarily due to how easy Investiture (Stormlight) is to come across.

AFAIK the form of Investiture doesn't change anything about the abilities. For example, Szeth was sucked out of Stormlight when he drew Nightblood; and Azure used Stormlight to Awaken in Shadesmar.

/u/mistborn is that right?

Brandon Sanderson

A lot of this depends on the Investiture and the magic in question. Azure was legit using Breaths, for example--ones she'd brought with her. But Szeth was able to feed Stormlight to Nightblood, much as Vasher uses Stormlight to keep himself alive.

To Awaken with Stormlight, the easiest thing to do would be to first change Stormlight into Breaths--something that Azure doesn't know how to do. (Admittedly, Hoid doesn't either, so it's not like it's a simple thing to achieve.) You could also theoretically use some magical (or mechanical) means to power your Awakening with a different form of Investiture.

Extesian

This is very interesting. Is it possible then in the Cosmere for the 'intent' (spin or however described) of Investiture to be changed? And I mean within reasonable limits (not the powers of six shards or any of that). Can a Shard effectively grow in power in a place (e.g. toward an avatar) through another Shard's Investiture being changed (not just corrupted)? Or is it just making one type ('intent' - you should canonize a word for this :D) of Investiture mimic the properties of another?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of the ways of accomplishing what you're talking about would involve either 1) fooling/overwriting your spiritual makeup somehow. (This is what Hemalurgy does, for example.) 2) Refining the power somehow into a more pure form.

But there are a lot of variables. The way magic from Nalthis works, for example, the system is just looking for any available Investiture to power itself--and so basically anything will do, regardless of the source. This includes consuming your own soul, in some cases...

You'll see terminology coming along eventually that facilitates talking about all of this. I'm not yet decided on some of it.

Celestial_Blu3

How many Breaths does [Azure] have by her final appearance in OB?

Brandon Sanderson

That's a RAFO, I'm afraid.

General Reddit 2019 (April 25, 2019)

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Questioner

With Warbreaker and Stormlight Archive, Vasher and Zahel. *inaudible*

Brandon Sanderson

He went to Roshar because he knew ahead of time, that you could get Stormlight, and how easy it was. So he made his way there because he was tired of sucking peoples' souls to stay alive.

Questioner

How did he know?

Brandon Sanderson

He, as part of a group of scholars, stumbled upon the nature of worldhopping long ago.

Questioner

Could he the same group of scholars as Jasnah?

Brandon Sanderson

No, it's a group of scholars on Nalthis who were studying magic, Investiture, and stumbled upon the means by which you transition into the Cognitive Realm. So, he actually had experience with Shardbldes before, and that was part of how he built... well, he was part of it, but really...

Questioner

So, is Nightblood kind of like a Shardblade? Is a Shardblade?

Brandon Sanderson

Nightblood is an attempt to make a Shardblade using a different magic. And it turned out poorly.

Questioner

Speaking of Nightblood, how did that transition from Nalthis?

Brandon Sanderson

I have not answered that yet. Eventually, you will find out how they ended up on Roshar.

Arcanum Unbounded release party (Nov. 22, 2016)

The second last WoB would be of particular interest to you as it talks a bit more about Investiture conversion

Edited June 7, 2020 by R J

[GoWibble he/him]

2 hours ago, Dvir said:

I mean how much stormlight is one breath, and if there is a ratio, why didn't Vasher just sucked in a lot of stormlight and became 10th heightening instantly?

So we don't know exactly, and you would really need a highstorm. Additionally, humans are imperfect Stormlight containers, so some of it would leak out...

also:

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Argent

We know that you can't Lash people in Shardplate, but can you Lash the person inside the Plate? If they had their helm off, for example. At that point Plate should be just dead weight, right? 

Brandon Sanderson

There's a bit of an interference envelope. Wearing plate, the person has this big ball of investiture around them, and so pushing any through it--even by touching a person without a helm--is going to be tough. Easier than with the helm on though, I suppose.

Investiture acts (roughly) like a saturated solution in these cases. Sticking more power into something like a Feruchemical storage or a hyper-invested object like Plate is increasingly hard. The other part is that Investiture tends to interfere with other Investiture, unless there's a familiar resonance. (This is part of what philosophers call Identity.) Slapping your hand through a sand master's stream of sand will cause interference, and make them start to drop. It's not that the sand is supporting them, it's that the investiture holding them up gets scrambled for a moment because of your own investiture.

Investiture pushed toward someone inside a hyper-invested (supersaturated) system like a person in Shardplate is going to get hard push-back.

This is similar to the reason that it's harder to Push on invested coins. Depends on how invested they are, in that case. It's generally not as hard as doing something like Lashing a person in plate. (This is more about the interference than the saturation of investiture.) But the two principles are what I use to guide the physics in these areas.

quietandproud

Can we take that as a hint that the Investiture in the Plates and the Investiture that the Surge of [Adhesion] uses come from different Shards? Or do they interfere because they "belong" to different spren?

Brandon Sanderson

You know, I should have realized this one would bring out the follow up questions. Let's leave it at what I posted for now. This is a deep, deep rabbit hole, and I do need to try to get some more writing done tonight. So...RAFO. (Sorry.)

Stormlight Three Update #4 (Nov. 2, 2016)

So I think that you would have a hard time inhaling 10 heightenings of Stormlight...

Edited June 7, 2020 by GoWibble
bolded the revelant part of the WoB