Marvel

[BreezeCauthon he/him]

I feel like we're close to reaching the point where stuff is about to get real weird. Almost too similar to the comic books if y'all get what I mean. I mean nobody has read every single Marvel comic book, and for good reason. On the other hand, just about every Marvel movie that has come out thus far has been good and worth watching, both as part of a huge arc and on its own merits. 

My prediction, however, is that in this next huge batch of movies, there will be The First Bad Marvel Movie, and possibly more than one. And things are going to get WAAYY too complicated. We could very well see a DC-level reboot. Or, heck, a Marvel comics-level reboot (which has happened numerous times).

Someday, our children will watch these movies, but it's doubtful that they will watch all of them. I wouldn't be surprised if the line of 'required watching' so to speak is drawn at Endgame (or perhaps even the first Avengers. Any one drawing such a line at Age of Ultron is weird).

TL;DR - I love love love Marvel but there comes a point when something gets too big.

 

[Condensation she/her]

Yeah, it's so true. Excluding Brandon's books, of course.

[Spren of Kindness she/her]

Yeah, WandaVision looks like it's gonna be weird.  (In the best possible way.)

I've got to agree with you on that, though.

[Condensation she/her]

1 minute ago, Spren of Kindness said:

I've got to agree with you on that, though.

Which part?

[Spren of Kindness she/her]

Just now, Ookla the Grammatical said:

Which part?

About the MCU maybe getting too big.

[Condensation she/her]

5 minutes ago, Spren of Kindness said:

About the MCU maybe getting too big.

Ah. Yes, I agree. I think they should move on. Endgame was a good finish, you can start over and try again.

[BreezeCauthon he/him]

I mean, it's not that I don't want to see Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Black Widow, Black Panther 2, Spiderman 3, Blade and Loki (to name a few)... but I feel like such things as WandaVision,  Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania, Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, and Thor: Love and Thunder (to name a few) have the potential to lower the average quality of Marvel films. 

I think maybe it makes more sense to just drop a movie or two per year and occasionally a TV series from this point onward, with an eye toward solos, instead of frenetic releases and crossovers. Perhaps ten, fifteen years from now there can be another epic crossover event.

[Condensation she/her]

Just now, BreezeCauthon said:

I mean, it's not that I don't want to see Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Black Widow, Black Panther 2, Spiderman 3, Blade and Loki (to name a few)... but I feel like such things as WandaVision,  Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania, Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness, and Thor: Love and Thunder (to name a few) have the potential to lower the average quality of Marvel films. 

I think maybe it makes more sense to just drop a movie or two per year and occasionally a TV series from this point onward, with an eye toward solos, instead of frenetic releases and crossovers. Perhaps ten, fifteen years from now there can be another epic crossover event.

I completely agree. With all of that.

Although it was exciting to hear all of those announced.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

It'll be fine. 

The biggest issue we'll face is that the TV shows won't matter too much. 

Like Agents of S.h.i.e.l.d. We get something that is hopefully better but that isn't going to tie into whatever crossover event will happen in the future. 

[Condensation she/her]

Oh, yes. My mom enjoys Agents of S.h.i.e.l.d.

[Use the Falchion]

Wakanda Disney+ show confirmed!

 

Black Panther Ryan Coogler 5-year exclusive Disney TV Deal Proximity Media – Deadline

[Use the Falchion]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giWIr7U1deA

 

Shang-Chi teaser trailer is here!

[Spren of Kindness she/her]

2 hours ago, Use the Falchion said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giWIr7U1deA

 

Shang-Chi teaser trailer is here!

I saw that!  It looks super cool, I have a feeling I might be nudging some friends to go see it, because I may know absolutely nothing about this guy, but it looks like a very entertaining story.

[jamesbondsmith He/him]

I'm debating whether to watch Shang Chi at all. I probably will because it's Marvel, but I'm kind of sick of people going on about how 'Marvel has an Asian lead in their movies now, so progressive!'

Meanwhile, said Asian lead is... the guy whose powers are 'kung fu'.

I know there's Colleen Wing, and May/Skye/Daisy from the TV side of things, but they've been doing their best to pretend the TV and movie side of things are completely unconnected up until Disney+. And Colleen isn't the title role of her show and the others are part of an ensemble cast and aren't defined by their martial arts abilities.

[Use the Falchion]

8 hours ago, jamesbondsmith said:

I'm debating whether to watch Shang Chi at all. I probably will because it's Marvel, but I'm kind of sick of people going on about how 'Marvel has an Asian lead in their movies now, so progressive!'

Meanwhile, said Asian lead is... the guy whose powers are 'kung fu'.

I know there's Colleen Wing, and May/Skye/Daisy from the TV side of things, but they've been doing their best to pretend the TV and movie side of things are completely unconnected up until Disney+. And Colleen isn't the title role of her show and the others are part of an ensemble cast and aren't defined by their martial arts abilities.

I definitely get what you're saying. I felt similarly about Black Panther. We've had Static Shock, Black Lightning, and Luke Cage all on television before T'Challa had his debut. We also had the Blade movies. But if Shang-Chi is anything like Black Panther, then many young Asian and/or Asian American children haven't watched Agents of Shield or Iron Fist. (Which to be fair for the latter, they probably shouldn't. Colleen Wing is great, but Iron Fist has some MAJOR issues and "Mighty Whitey" implications.* Also, Shang-Chi's target audience is probably a little different than the fans who watched Iron Fist since the Netflix shows were for a slightly "more mature" audience and all; and possibly even the hardcore fans like us who watched AoS. Oh! And don't forget Nico in Runaways!) This will be their first time seeing a superhero that looks like them starring a movie filled with people that look like them. This may be the first time they can watch a movie featuring an Asian and/or Asian American lead filled with characters that look like them that is made for a market that primarily doesn't. They can go to their friends and say "I have a character I can dress up as during Halloween now and people will recognize them!" It gives those children the power of choice. And those things are BIG.

Does this mean that Marvel is suddenly woke or progressive? Not at all. But they're making steps to get there, and it's those steps we can celebrate. The Superhero Genre as a whole is one of the more progressive genres/franchises out there right now. (I look at Star Wars in comparison, because it's one of the few franchises that can compete (and another one that I love) and boy howdy is the superhero genre doing better in its representation.) The Big Screen following in-step is something we should celebrate...and then make sure they don't champion Shang-Chi exclusively. Because then it's not progressive, it's just tokenism.**

In terms of the "kung fu" aspect, I definitely hear you. But it's also hard, and frankly a Catch-22. Do a kung fu movie or show without an Asian and/or Asian American cast and lead, and you're criticized for appropriation in many cases or for not hiring Asian and/or Asian American actors when it would be "appropriate" to do so. Look at Iron Fist. Look at the original iteration of Kung Fu (which, admittedly, is only criticized in retrospect). If you do hire Asian and/or Asian American actors, then you're typecasting at best and stereotyping at worst. And that's true too. Lord knows I'm sick of seeing so many shows and movies showing slaves and slavery as a terrible thing being the focus...but at the same time, if shows in that time period didn't show slaves or slavery as a terrible thing, I'd be even more upset! (Such as Benioff & Weiss's cancelled Alternate History show "Confederate." Such a terrible idea in these times...) It's like Black people can't enjoy the aesthetics of a time period without the binary of "this was horrible for you" or "we will erase you completely." This is why Bridgerton is pretty interesting, at least in concept. My sister likes the show. Maybe I'll check it out. 

So how do you find the middle ground? How do you tell an engaging story while respecting the heritage and changes with culture that can still speak to people who aren't from that heritage or culture? Do you ignore race completely and do blind casting and whatnot? Or is there something else that can be done?

Many stories involving Black characters or superheroes relate to the "Black experience," even if at times not every Black person can personally relate.  (Although culturally, the relation is there, if that makes sense. I don't need to have been beaten by a cop to know how intensely scary being stopped by one can be.) Even Falcon & the Winter Soldier does that. But is this the right path? Should shows that are steeped in fantasy address sociopolitical issues, racial issues, and stereotypes head-on? Or should they add a degree of separation, like I wish Star Wars had done with Finn in TLJ. 

And as easy as it is to say "hire Asian and/or Asian American people behind the screen to make sure that these stereotypes and stuff aren't included," remember that Shang-Chi and Black Panther (and Black Lightning, and FATWS) did exactly that. 

Ultimately, if you want Marvel to keep making more Asian and/or Asian American leads and stars in their movies, I think it's in you best interest to go. Money speaks. Let them hear. If you want to bring up how they've had great Asian/Asian-American stars and roles and icons in other stuff before this, that's awesome! Keep bringing it up! But please remember being that ensemble roles are slightly different than main character roles, and the power of being the face(s) of a franchise goes a long way. And remember that not going will most likely send the wrong message. Marvel is known for overreacting, and trust me, if this movie fails, they will almost certainly blame it on the race/ethnicity issue than any actual problems with the movie. 

 

*All of the main Asian and/or Asian American actors in Iron Fist have been linked to the Hand in some way, shape, or form. Even Colleen isn't exempted from this. That's...not a good look, especially if the love interest of the White Lead is the "exception." It'd be like if every Black person in Star Wars was Pro-Empire/First Order...which, uncomfortably enough, it feels like a majority of them are. 

**This is why Sam Wilson needs to return to the big screen as Captain America. FATWS is a great story for the medium and has done great and necessary things for the characters, but the impact of having more than one Black superhero on the screen in a leading role at a time is BIG. It goes back to that choice feature. This is also why I completely disagree with Disney's decision to bury the role of T'Challa with Chadwick. They're treating it like how Sam treated the shield in Episode 1. And I get the optics, but it's better to carry on that legacy with bad optics than to react out of fear of bad optics. This isn't Brian from Fast & Furious. This isn't a character that should die with its actor. This is an icon, a legacy, a mantle. Chadwick may have done it first, he may have done it best, but he shouldn't be the last. 

[NottTheBrave he/him]

Shang-Chi has me hyped as heck.  Probably the most excited I’ve been going into an MCU thing since... sheesh, I guess infinity war?  Not that other projects didn’t excite me, I just wasn’t super hyped.  I didn’t even see endgame in theaters, which is kinda shocking looking back on that.  How the heck did that happen?  Guess I just got busy at the time.

it’s also the first thing I’m considering making a trip to the theater for.  Black widow will be on + so I don’t have to worry, but if it wasn’t, I’d be perfectly fine waiting to see it.  Shang-chi is something I’d like to see when it releases to avoid the deluge of spoilers.  I hope it comes to plus too.  The nearest theater is a few hours away.  My local ones all shut down and aren’t re-opening.  

[Use the Falchion]

Captain America 4 announced! 

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/captain-america-4-in-the-works-with-falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-showrunner-malcolm-spellman-exclusive

[Draginon he/him]

With Sharon Carter now being a villain (I’m not clear if Power Broker is a villain in the comics) I’m wondering if Marvel is setting us up for a ‘fallen heroes’ arc since there is the speculation of Wanda being the villain of Doctor Strange 2.

 

Anyone else hoping these shows come to Blu-ray because of not being a fan of streaming in general? It’s hard being a MCU fan and only able to read the synopsis on Wikipedia just to keep up.

[Use the Falchion]

41 minutes ago, Draginon said:

With Sharon Carter now being a villain (I’m not clear if Power Broker is a villain in the comics) I’m wondering if Marvel is setting us up for a ‘fallen heroes’ arc since there is the speculation of Wanda being the villain of Doctor Strange 2.

 

Anyone else hoping these shows come to Blu-ray because of not being a fan of streaming in general? It’s hard being a MCU fan and only able to read the synopsis on Wikipedia just to keep up.

Power Broker, from what I know, is something of a "Neutral Evil" villain.They sell Super Soldier Serum, Mutant Growth Hormone, and other drugs and whatnot in exchange for money (and percentages on their Superhero earnings) and power. Here I imagine they'll go full-on "evil puppet master in the background."

I heard a cool theory that the Power Broker would more or less be the person behind the Armor Wars series. Armor Wars is an old Iron Man storyline where Tony's old suits and tech are stolen and given to various organizations and criminals, and Tony has to hunt the pieces down one by one. I know the MCU is filming an adaptation of that starring Don Cheadle's Rhodey aka War Machine, and it's coming out sometime next year. It's easy to imagine that the Power Broker could find such tech in their new position and use sell it to the highest bidder. 

In terms of Blu-Ray vs streaming...yes? I don't mind streaming in general, but I like Blu-Rays and DVDs for collection's sake. Streaming services don't keep things forever, and not all of them are worth investing in, so having a hard copy is a great way to watch what you want at any time (there's a Blu-Ray player around). 

[Spren of Kindness she/her]

1 hour ago, Draginon said:

With Sharon Carter now being a villain (I’m not clear if Power Broker is a villain in the comics) I’m wondering if Marvel is setting us up for a ‘fallen heroes’ arc since there is the speculation of Wanda being the villain of Doctor Strange 2.

 

Anyone else hoping these shows come to Blu-ray because of not being a fan of streaming in general? It’s hard being a MCU fan and only able to read the synopsis on Wikipedia just to keep up.

I'm hoping that there's some form of hard copy as well.  I'm not only bad at operating streaming platforms, I don't really trust them.  

Where are you finding good Wikipedia synopses?  I've never come across one that actually gave me the information I need for a show or movie.

[Orlion Blight he/him]

Streaming is better because it doesn't take up space! 

[Draginon he/him]

19 hours ago, Spren of Kindness said:

I'm hoping that there's some form of hard copy as well.  I'm not only bad at operating streaming platforms, I don't really trust them.  

Where are you finding good Wikipedia synopses?  I've never come across one that actually gave me the information I need for a show or movie.

I’m just reading the ones on Wikipedia itself just to get the gist of what’s happening, same went with Wandavision and the same will go for the other shows if there’s no video release.

[Use the Falchion]

Marvel released a new movie theater trailer spot! 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdpxoFcdORI

 

The second half has new clips from Black Widow and Shang-Chi along with our first sneak peak footage at the Eternals (it looks great!) 

Black Panther 2 is now Black Panther: Wakanda Forever 

Captain Marvel 2 is now The Marvels

Ant-Man & the Wasp: Quantamania gets its 2023 release date confirmed. 

[Orlion Blight he/him]

1 hour ago, Use the Falchion said:

Marvel released a new movie theater trailer spot! 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdpxoFcdORI

 

The second half has new clips from Black Widow and Shang-Chi along with our first sneak peak footage at the Eternals (it looks great!) 

Black Panther 2 is now Black Panther: Wakanda Forever 

Captain Marvel 2 is now The Marvels

Ant-Man & the Wasp: Quantamania gets its 2023 release date confirmed. 

I like the change from Captain Marvel 2 to The Marvels. It implies that Ms Marvel will get more than a bit part! 

Maybe Monica Rambeau as well (I hope so, anyway, I've always been a fan of her comicbook character) 

[Use the Falchion]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNyLzc3MU_E

 

Loki is releasing on WEDNESDAY, staring Wednesday June 9th!