Detritus, A Corpse !!

[Aon Tia she/her]

The journey through the delvers maze made, at many times, Spensa think of caverns back at detritus. Many times, she felt that what she is seeing was a projection of a real cave back home. 
She also sees the same alien language in the delvers maze which is found in caves back at detritus. 
Also many of the caves are like a maze back at detritus, people have been known to loose their way in them. Many caves have not even been discovered or fully explored.  
so, what if the homeworld of Spensa, detritus is actually built upon a Delver corpse. 
 

Humans were trying to control delvers, already the delver maze is possibly a delver corpse that belonged to humans,  so is it possible that humans killed delvers? Or they simply happened upon their corpses. 
A world had naturally formed on top of such a corpse? Detritus?

The word Detritus also means “organic matter formed from decomposition of organisms” 

in this case, the planet has been created from the decomposition of a delvers corpse. 

We have no proof that humans ever actually lived on the surface of the planet or many humans lived inside the caverns. It is possible that they created the platforms around the planet and lived on the platforms exclusively as much as was possible. 
But the planet was very important to them because it gave them access to Taynix ie slugs and nowhere portals to create acclivity rings. 
The planet was a big manufactory for humanity’s war effort. 

Edited December 7, 2019 by The traveller

[TequilaJack]

When Spensa reveals herself, Cuna calls it "shell planet"which lends credence to this theory. 

[kaellok he/him]

Acclivity stone is mined in the nowhere, and accessed through strange portals (probably those referred to as 'nowalks' in a few places).  When Spensa is inside the delver maze with Hesho, and says that there are similar carvings on caves back home, he makes the connection between them and acclivity stone; on the second last page of the novel, Spensa draws the connection between the weird portal thing, the caverns back home, and the delver maze.

It's practically guaranteed that those writings/carvings indicate a connection with the nowhere.  The type of connection seems more likely to be a nowalk portal thing, rather than indication of a delver corpse--in no small part because it's widely believed for delvers to be impossible to kill, so having stumbled across a corpse or two would be a giant freaking deal for literally the entire galaxy.  And unlike the hyperspace slugs, there is no intrinsically beneficial reason for a species to keep that fact a secret (ie, the diones and varzax have significant reason to hide and control their secret of hyperspace, but there is no obvious benefit to hiding that delvers have died in the past, which means that it is very likely that someone, at some point, would have blabbed).

The word detritus also means 'waste or debris of any kind', and is not specific to organic material at all (although it does include that).  The planet Detritus is the mechanical remains of an incredibly advanced civilization, which is actively falling out of orbit and crashing into the planet.  I always got the impression that the Defiant named the planet, largely because of what they had found.

Also, in the found-video played before Spensa becomes a spy, there is mention that people on the planet are firing at the platforms, only for the scientist person to say that the people on the planet are firing at the delver, the platforms just happen to be in the way.  So we know people were living there when the delver returned.  And I think that the several, multiple layers of platforms surrounding Detritus are what makes others refer to it as a 'shell planet', rather than a secret allusion to it being built atop the corpse of a delver.

I do agree that Detritus was once a major part of the human's war effort, for a number of reasons--but not because it's built atop the corpse of a delver.  Although, I have been wondering if the delvers leave anything behind when they vacate back to nowhere.  If they do, that would explain many of the various oddities and seeming half-secrets about the strange carvings and how nowalk portals work.  All we really know for fact is that when they go back, the atmosphere in the Heart of the Maze goes with them.  Next time Spensa scares one off, she should really stay conscious afterward rather than experience explosive decompression, just to help satisfy the curiosity of us readers.

[cfphelps he/him]

On 12/7/2019 at 8:08 AM, The traveller said:

 

We have no proof that humans ever actually lived on the surface of the planet or many humans lived inside the caverns. It is possible that they created the platforms around the planet and lived on the platforms exclusively as much as was possible. 
 

When they see the video of the delver attacking Detris, the people in the command center mention that the surface is shooting at the delver but hitting them. So that suggests they had at the very least a base and surface to air guns capable of hitting orbital platforms on the surface of the planet.

Edit: oops should have read the whole thread as kaellok covered that. 

The other thing I just thought of as suggesting there was life on the surface is the fact that the platforms have the sky lights to stimulate day and night for the planet. If no one lived on the planet, they wouldn't bother to build the lights on the platform. 

I think I recall (I believe in a WoB) that there is a sun in that system, although I don't think it has really come up in the stories. If there wasn't it's possible that the platforms were built first with the skylights as part of a terraforming operation. It also may have been done for non human life, since Defending Elysium

Spoiler

shows humans happy to live in low light conditions in the outer platforms. Jason even commented that the people get used to it and purposely even keep interior lights dim. 

 

Edited December 8, 2019 by cfphelps

[SzethIsBadAsHell he/him]

So I was actually discussing this very thing with my friend today . My initial thoughts was he was crazy . But the more we discussed it the more I think he and you are right . I came and made a post really quick , I posted it in the Skyward section by mistake . I have not had any replies yet . So when. I came back looking for why I noticed this post . The fact that two people I talk to about it came up with the same idea has to mean something . My friend is not a member of the 17th Shard so he couldn’t have seen this post . I initially thought it was an alien that was reading Spensa mind and copying what it saw thier . But now I am agreeing with you @TheTraveler this definantly needs more discussion . What if the Humans killed the first Delver .built a base on Detritus . Thinking to call in a Delver and send it to attack the Superiority . This Delver was much stronger , came in to investigate the corpse and inadvertently killed all the humans on Detritus . This sounds a lot like something Brandon would do I’m liking your theory a lot ! 

[Aon Tia she/her]

Thank you @SzethIsBadAsHell 

I really think that it is really possible that Humans killed a delver, Or they came across one such corpse, then made a base on it to study it. I really think that it is possible originally a minimal population lived on the actual planet and most of the humans, scientists etc lived on the platforms surrounding the planet. 
I am quite sure that we will discover some way in which delvers can be killed. 
Mainly it is the tunnels and similar writing and I think the presence of nowhere portals, it is possible that a delver corpse and his delver maze might have made making nowhere portals easier or had naturally occurring portals in it. 

[SzethIsBadAsHell he/him]

20 minutes ago, The traveller said:

Thank you @SzethIsBadAsHell 

I really think that it is really possible that Humans killed a delver, Or they came across one such corpse, then made a base on it to study it. I really think that it is possible originally a minimal population lived on the actual planet and most of the humans, scientists etc lived on the platforms surrounding the planet. 
I am quite sure that we will discover some way in which delvers can be killed. 
Mainly it is the tunnels and similar writing and I think the presence of nowhere portals, it is possible that a delver corpse and his delver maze might have made making nowhere portals easier or had naturally occurring portals in it. 

My main reason for thinking they somehow managed to kill a Delver was the fact they attempted to summon one . As Dangerous as Delvers are you don’t do that unless you have a back up plan In case they couldn’t control it . I think they summoned it , tried to manipulate it and it noticed the Delver corpse and whatever Cytonic beacon or control they employed didn’t work because the Delver was so focused on the corpse. Perhaps I’m being too human in my thinking . But , something drew the Delver attention and I don’t think it was the communications . 

[Aon Tia she/her]

1 minute ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

My main reason for thinking they somehow managed to kill a Delver was the fact they attempted to summon one . As Dangerous as Delvers are you don’t do that unless you have a back up plan In case they couldn’t control it . I think they summoned it , tried to manipulate it and it noticed the Delver corpse and whatever Cytonic beacon or control they employed didn’t work because the Delver was so focused on the corpse. Perhaps I’m being too human in my thinking . But , something drew the Delver attention and I don’t think it was the communications . 

That is actually a very good point! 
I agree the fact that humans thought they can control delvers is because they either managed to kill one or they thought they knew how delvers can be killed. 

[Ajaxe]

Just a quick thought, if you look at the Delver page on the Coppermind. There’s some history that implies the Delvers didn’t care about the physical world, and Cytonics didn’t draw their attention back in the D.E. Era. I know humans and the PC we’re pretty new to cytonics, but other species had been using them for some time already. So what changed? Maybe someone managed to summon or even kill one? I actually think this is pretty unlikely, but I notice the connections between Detritus and Delvers and it got me wondering. Why weren’t the Varvax and the Tenasi, already powerful cytonic users, worried about the Delvers or Eyes before? 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Ajaxe

[Plaeggs he/him]

My understanding of the link between the Delver Maze and the Detritus Tunnels was that it was just the illusion that made them look like that to Spensa. Do we have any source for other people in the maze seeing the same writing as was on Detritus? 

[SzethIsBadAsHell he/him]

4 hours ago, Plaeggs said:

My understanding of the link between the Delver Maze and the Detritus Tunnels was that it was just the illusion that made them look like that to Spensa. Do we have any source for other people in the maze seeing the same writing as was on Detritus? 

It wasn’t the writing , it was the shape of the tunnels . I too thought it was illusion at first . I think that was what Brandon wanted us to assume . But it wasn’t . Think of the tunnels as viens inside a corpse . Spensa noticed they were uncannily similar . The illusions were added to the tunnels . And perhaps some illusions made sense see things she saw on Detritus. But the tunnels themselves were the same .

[Jamahu]

17 hours ago, SzethIsBadAsHell said:

It wasn’t the writing , it was the shape of the tunnels . I too thought it was illusion at first . I think that was what Brandon wanted us to assume . But it wasn’t . Think of the tunnels as viens inside a corpse . Spensa noticed they were uncannily similar . The illusions were added to the tunnels . And perhaps some illusions made sense see things she saw on Detritus. But the tunnels themselves were the same .

I need to go back and look in the book to verify, but my recollection is that every time Spensa mentions the delver maze reminding her of something, she then experiences something that seems to be a mental connection to a delver.  So the similarities she notices are actually the delver mirroring her own memories back to her (possibly in an attempt to understand her.)

the one instance that was separate was when she first entered the training maze, and noticed that it was very similar to the falling structure she flew through on Detritus - but that seems to be an indication that the humans had a separate training maze located there in the past, not any comment about Detritus itself.

[Karger he/him]

On 12/7/2019 at 8:08 AM, The traveller said:

The word Detritus also means “organic matter formed from decomposition of organisms” 

I think this is a reference to the fact that the outer defense platforms the "skin" of the planet is steadily "decomposing" to form the new planet.

[Aon Tia she/her]

8 hours ago, Ookla the Prolific said:

I think this is a reference to the fact that the outer defense platforms the "skin" of the planet is steadily "decomposing" to form the new planet.

May be or may be it is something more