Zahel Memories

[WestTea he/him]

This question has small spoilers for both Warbreaker and Stormlight so I am putting it in a spoiler tag just in case someone hasn't read both

Spoiler

Hello everyone. I recently re-read Warbreaker and was surprised I had forgotten about Vashers ability to make someone forget an event (self imposed only). Has anyone asked Brandon if Zahel (Vasher on Roshar) has all of his memories from Nalthis? I am wondering if after the events of Warbreaker 2 Vasher will decide he has finally reached the point where he should give up his own memories. I could see a few reasons for why this might happen (1. seal away all knowledge related to the creation of nightblood after all of the 5 scholars are dealt with or 2. because he is tired of his past haunting him and he views Vivenna as a suitable successor and removes himself fro a position to create more pain/misery). Either way I would be curious if Zahel still has all of the memories of Vasher.

Not sure the best way to check if this has been asked and would appreciate some help.

Thank you!

Edited October 7, 2019 by WestTea
Added spoiler tag

[+robardin he/him]

12 hours ago, Karger said:

General Reddit 2017 (Dec. 10, 2017)
#1 Dec. 10, 2017 Share Copy

 

Snote85

Did Vasher do to himself something similar to what Cultivation did to Dalinar, with his memory? I know in Warbreaker he says he knew the commands to take Denth's memories of things they'd done in the past away. Is there a chance he is not "whole" in his ability to recall his past?

Brandon Sanderson

It's safe to say that Vasher's memory has a few holes.

Yeah, for him to make that promise to Denth that he could take away his evil memories - "I know the Commands" - and for a surprised Denth to believe he was sincere, that suggests that he must have discovered them after the Nightblood Collaboration. And for him to be sure of the promise, he must have tested or effected the Commands before.

The deeper question would be if such a Command would require a control phrase that would reset/restore the memories, similar to the Lifeless Command. I would assume so.

[Karger he/him]

General Reddit 2017 (Dec. 10, 2017)
#1 Dec. 10, 2017 Share Copy

 

Snote85

Did Vasher do to himself something similar to what Cultivation did to Dalinar, with his memory? I know in Warbreaker he says he knew the commands to take Denth's memories of things they'd done in the past away. Is there a chance he is not "whole" in his ability to recall his past?

Brandon Sanderson

It's safe to say that Vasher's memory has a few holes.

[Karger he/him]

5 hours ago, robardin said:

The deeper question would be if such a Command would require a control phrase that would reset/restore the memories, similar to the Lifeless Command. I would assume so.

It has been compared to soft hemalurgy.  You are removing part of that person's soul.  I don't think an undo button exists.

[+robardin he/him]

13 minutes ago, Karger said:

It has been compared to soft hemalurgy.  You are removing part of that person's soul.  I don't think an undo button exists.

Really? While a kandra's memory will have holes from losing their spikes for a period of time, I would think Awakening Command based memory modification would be a suppression or transformation of memory rather than a destruction or loss of it. More like Shai's "retirement soulstamp" that would rewrite her Identity to one that did not remember ever being a Forger, plus a powerful fear of venturing too far from home (MaiPon) and a need to renew the stamp to keep that Identity in effect every day, except that with Awakening the Command would not need to be renewed.

We really don't know what Awakening Commands can do to a living person or what it would require, much less a self-modification by a living Awakener, much less one who's a Returned in the bargain. Apparently Vasher knows, though. And he implies it's something he would do to Denth, not something he'd teach Denth to do to himself, yet might require his cooperation ("I can make you [forget]. I know the Commands... I will take it all from you, if you wish."). And that he could do it with the Breath available to him.

Of course, "if you wish" might just be Vasher saying he wouldn't do it against Denth's will - even if he could - though if he could, might he not have chosen that option over killing him? Maybe he just didn't have enough Breath to do it, and had Denth agreed, would have had to beg leave to get some from a stash somewhere first? (Yeah, that wouldn't sound too suspicious.)