Friendshipspren he/him Posted August 12, 2019 Report Share Posted August 12, 2019 (edited) I was browsing and i found this post . And I began to think the most humane part of hemalurgy is getting a spike driven right through your heart. The really brutal part is that it rips ur soul or atleast takes a chunk of it. This knowledge would also become widespread and in my opinion atleast , this makes it completely different from organ donation. Do we know what happens to the souls of ppl used to make spikes, do they suffer ? Do the souls even exist after being ripped apart ? How do they look in the cognitive realm post death ? Do we have any WoBs on this ? In secret history , we see the cognitive shadow of a koloss and only the spike reciever has one. The chunks of the other souls don't show up in any way ( i thought they would manifest in a Spren like manner ) , so is it possible that the part of the soul not bound by the spike simply dissolves into nothing ? If so, is it a fate worse than death and The Beyond ? Also is it the part of the soul responsible for sapience that's attached to the spike ? Is the chunk of the soul still aware ? If so , are the detrimental side effects of hemalurgy due to the spiked soul somehow knowing what happened to it and fighting against the recipient soul , rather than the recepiant soul rejecting the spike or is it a combination of both cases ? ? Edited August 12, 2019 by PrinceGenocide Some more questions 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Posted August 12, 2019 Report Share Posted August 12, 2019 The pieces of soul (investiture) stay in the spike even if the host dies. The host will stay in the cognitive realm longer after death due to being more invested then a normal human being. All the people that had chunks of their soul ripped out stay in the cognitive realm a shorter time then normal due to being less invested. Besides these to things nothing else is different between the victim and the recipient of hemulergy after death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendshipspren he/him Posted August 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2019 17 minutes ago, Dancer said: The pieces of soul (investiture) stay in the spike even if the host dies. The host will stay in the cognitive realm longer after death due to being more invested then a normal human being. All the people that had chunks of their soul ripped out stay in the cognitive realm a shorter time then normal due to being less invested. Besides these to things nothing else is different between the victim and the recipient of hemulergy after death. Oh that's disappointing. So it isn't all that horrible to have ur soul ripped ? U sure ? I mean , getting ur soul ripped seems like a big deal. Do we any wob on it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dancer Posted August 12, 2019 Report Share Posted August 12, 2019 Questioner (on behalf of Yata) When someone is spiked, and dies, does that affect the time they spend in the Cognitive? Brandon Sanderson If they are spiked, yes because if you are extra Invested, which spiking technically does, if you have a spike stapling a bit of someone else's soul to yours-- Questioner The other way. Someone spikes through you and you die-- Brandon Sanderson Ohhhhh, oh okay, no, that might make you go faster. Questioner Is that why Harmony doesn’t know who's spiking people? Or-- Brandon Sanderson Hmm. Yeah. Okay. I had not considered that. But yeah, sure. *laughter* Suuureee. You added to the canon. I mean, the actual answer was, when you're spiking somebody, you're ripping of the soul, so kind of, there's not enough left to talk. I mean, you're ripping off enough of the soul, so it's a bad thing. It's a very bad thing. So you go "Who killed you?" and it's just somebody who is essentially-- But yes, they would go faster too. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendshipspren he/him Posted August 12, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 12, 2019 Oh , u have my thanks , Lord bridgeman . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 On 8/12/2019 at 8:30 AM, PrinceGenocide said: Oh , u have my thanks , Lord bridgeman . In that WoB as well as I believe two or three others, Brandon states pretty explicitly that ripping off a chunk of a person's "soul" is very bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 There's also the perpetual philosophic debate on whether the SpiritWeb and the Soul are the same thing or not, which has implications on the whole Beyond discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendshipspren he/him Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 50 minutes ago, Pathfinder said: In that WoB as well as I believe two or three others, Brandon states pretty explicitly that ripping off a chunk of a person's "soul" is very bad. Idk , if the only thing changed is a few less seconds as a shadow on the cognitive realm. How bad could it be ? I mean u r already dead and even if u r in spiritual pain , it will go away in a few ( actually even fewer ) seconds anyway 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendshipspren he/him Posted August 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 14 minutes ago, Quantus said: There's also the perpetual philosophic debate on whether the SpiritWeb and the Soul are the same thing or not, which has implications on the whole Beyond discussion. There's a debate ? I thought they were the same thing. Like u know how a MRI scan is a map of the human body , the spirit web is a technical scan of a soul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pathfinder Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, PrinceGenocide said: There's a debate ? I thought they were the same thing. Like u know how a MRI scan is a map of the human body , the spirit web is a technical scan of a soul. So yes there are three "selfs" to a person. The physical self, the cognitive self, and the spiritual self. Thing is Brandon in WoB has called the spiritual self/spirit web the soul on multiple occasions. However he has also clarified that the spiritual self goes to the spiritual realm and hangs out there for a long time, while something "else" moves on to the beyond. What the Beyond is and whether it actually exists or not is meant to be left ambiguous. That way theists and atheists can exist side by side within the novels with neither being right nor wrong. Edited August 13, 2019 by Pathfinder 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quantus he/him Posted August 13, 2019 Report Share Posted August 13, 2019 To add to what @Pathfinder a big part of the debate stems from the whole Beyond thing (which Brandon has said he's intentionally leaving unresolved). So for example, a Spiriweb is made of Investiture which can be placed into a Spike via Hemalurgy, and per WOB the Investiture that is lost via the End-Negative nature of Hemalurgy returns to the Spiritual Realm reservoir that is/are the Shards (just like any other "destroyed" Investiture). But that is entirely distinct and separate from whatever it is that Goes Beyond when you die, which is entirely beyond the reach of the Shardic Vessels. Even in-world there is a debate about whether and to what extent a Cognitive Shadow is still the original person, and that's another thing that has been periodically referred to as a Soul. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendshipspren he/him Posted August 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 On 8/13/2019 at 9:19 PM, Pathfinder said: So yes there are three "selfs" to a person. The physical self, the cognitive self, and the spiritual self. Thing is Brandon in WoB has called the spiritual self/spirit web the soul on multiple occasions. However he has also clarified that the spiritual self goes to the spiritual realm and hangs out there for a long time, while something "else" moves on to the beyond. What the Beyond is and whether it actually exists or not is meant to be left ambiguous. That way theists and atheists can exist side by side within the novels with neither being right nor wrong. Ok wait so was Sazed able to meet tindwyls spiritual self after he ascended. I was so crushed on finding out that she , like ,all cognitive shadows passed on after a few moments. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Friendshipspren he/him Posted August 14, 2019 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2019 21 hours ago, Quantus said: To add to what @Pathfinder a big part of the debate stems from the whole Beyond thing (which Brandon has said he's intentionally leaving unresolved). So for example, a Spiriweb is made of Investiture which can be placed into a Spike via Hemalurgy, and per WOB the Investiture that is lost via the End-Negative nature of Hemalurgy returns to the Spiritual Realm reservoir that is/are the Shards (just like any other "destroyed" Investiture). But that is entirely distinct and separate from whatever it is that Goes Beyond when you die, which is entirely beyond the reach of the Shardic Vessels. Even in-world there is a debate about whether and to what extent a Cognitive Shadow is still the original person, and that's another thing that has been periodically referred to as a Soul. Ok ok , I got it now. U and @Pathfinder , thanks guys . So the spirit web and the spirit itself are different things. Much like a body and soul all over again. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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