+TheFoxQR Posted July 26, 2019 Author Posted July 26, 2019 54 minutes ago, cometaryorbit said: I really can't see that WoB as being compatible with Honor choosing Surge pairs for specific purposes, since Honor didn't design the planet. Adonalsium making the planet in a way that the Surge pairs were ones that made sense, yeah, but not Honor deciding on them "after the fact". Ah, but here the known facts of Rosharran history come to the rescue. If the Surge-pairs are inherent to Roshar by Adonalsium's design, as you say, and not by Honor's design as I say, shouldn't everything but the Humans show them? Humans weren't around when Adonalsium made Roshar, and they wouldn't be around for millenia after. Wouldn't something else more native to Roshar display the same surge pairs better? Thinking about this in Scadrial terms, then for example take steel. There is nothing inherent to all steel in the Cosmere that makes it give the power to push on metal or to store and retrieve weight. It only does these when combined with an Allomancer or Feruchemist spiritweb respectively. It is only in the context of a compatible Allomancer or Feruchemist spiritweb that steel can be exchanged and translated to give those powers. And Allomancer and Feruchemist spiritwebs were designed by Preservation, and there was a whole snapping process which was later modified by Harmony which... for lack of a better word "prepares" your spiritweb to be capable of doing those things. Now the whole trick to the Allomancy and Feruchemy spiritwebs was that there were 16 metals, and that was Preservation giving hints to certain people. So when Brandon answers "The pairs are natural to Roshar in the same way as metals on Scadrial" then I have questions. What specific parallel is he drawing? Also to be clear, I do believe that there is something inherent to Roshar that makes certain Surge-pairs more viable than others. I think it is the spren spiritwebs that give them context. Whether this is Adonalsium or Honor, I don't know. What I also think is that there is some deeper meaning or intent behind why those specific surge pairs are more important over others.
Scion of the Mists Posted July 26, 2019 Posted July 26, 2019 6 hours ago, TheFoxQR said: He says the pairs are as natural as the metals on Scadrial. But nothing on Scadrial is "natural". Everything is constructed. If Brandon's talking about how there is a decided metal-power combination, well then that entire framework was created by Preservation. It was Leras who decided what metals to use, and what powers they will give. Another way of interpreting it could be simply to say that the Surge Pairs co-relate to metal-alloy push-pull pairs. But even then, it was Preservation that decided on those things. That constructed structure was sort of the point of the whole system there. I believe you are overestimating the amount of control that Shards have over their magic systems - it's not absolute. For example, a Shard can't refuse to power a magic user. Also, the magic systems "weren't 100% created by the Shards, bu they do also have the Shard's influence on them."
ScavellTane Posted July 26, 2019 Posted July 26, 2019 I think Preservation didnt align the metals to the powers but made it so that only sixteen were discovered at the time it was needed. Just as the 10 Surges are known, but their greater powers are still concealed.
+TheFoxQR Posted July 27, 2019 Author Posted July 27, 2019 (edited) On 7/26/2019 at 9:55 AM, Scion of the Mists said: I believe you are overestimating the amount of control that Shards have over their magic systems - it's not absolute. For example, a Shard can't refuse to power a magic user. Also, the magic systems "weren't 100% created by the Shards, bu they do also have the Shard's influence on them." On 7/26/2019 at 11:17 AM, ScavellTane said: I think Preservation didnt align the metals to the powers but made it so that only sixteen were discovered at the time it was needed. Just as the 10 Surges are known, but their greater powers are still concealed. I think you're overestimating Adonalsium's involvement in the magic Systems. For e.g., Lightweaving existed on Yolen. Modern Lightweaving follows those pathways. Similarly, it's just easy to build life around water, than say liquid methane. That's a natural pathway + Shards have seen it so they're more aware of how that works. The Vessels are that form of life, so that form of life is just more natural to them. Similarly, there were certain things that were modeled after other things the Shards had seen before. For e.g. Humans on Scadrial. It seems safe to presume that their spiritwebs were also modeled after Yolish human spiritwebs. And the nature and structure of those spiritwebs may mean it is just easier to make a power work a certain way. For e.g. I could go to the best University in the world to learn physics. I could understand and learn about all the known properties of metals, and electricity. I could learn and see how electricians have used those properties of materials to wire houses. I could learn what physics makes a motor work, and how that drives a fan, and I could learn how a fan provides wind. Ditto for different kinds of lights and lighting rigs and systems. Those things were built the way they were because of the natural laws of the world and the universe. Then, when I build my own house and I'm designing wiring for it, I would naturally utilise that same knowledge. It is upto me to decide what kind of fan I will use, what heating or cooling solutions are better fits for me, what lights I would like in what room (depending on the size of the room and colors of all the things in it). It is me who will decide what switch turns the fan on vs what switch controls power to the lights. It is upto me to decide what that switch will even look like. It is upto me to decide what kind of backup power solution I use. Sure, I didn't do 100% of the work. I didn't discover every single property of each material I'm using, nor did I invent the concept of a wire, or rubber shielding for safety. But the wiring solution I make for my house is mine. Adonalsium built certain magic systems on Yolen. The vessels knew how they work because they lived in a world with them and they flipping ascended there. They can use that knowledge to do things on their own. Examples of this would be everything on Scadrial. Similarly, Roshar was desgined by Adonalsium. Sure, let's say he designed surges, and used patchwork investiture to make Roshar's ecology work a certain way. Because of this, certain Surges can work better together than others. All I'm saying is that the specific Surge pairs in the Herald-KR system are of Honor's (and potentially also Cultivation's) choosing. The strength of their resonances is on those two shards. Edited July 27, 2019 by TheFoxQR
cometaryorbit Posted July 28, 2019 Posted July 28, 2019 On 7/26/2019 at 3:29 AM, TheFoxQR said: Ah, but here the known facts of Rosharran history come to the rescue.If the Surge-pairs are inherent to Roshar by Adonalsium's design, as you say, and not by Honor's design as I say, shouldn't everything but the Humans show them? Humans weren't around when Adonalsium made Roshar, and they wouldn't be around for millenia after. Wouldn't something else more native to Roshar display the same surge pairs better? I don't think so... What I'm arguing for is that the "natural" paths for magic to follow are largely 'set' when a planet is created (or forms naturally, if any of the Cosmere planets did). The magic systems don't actually exist until a Shard Invests in the planet... but when a Shard does, its power "fits into" the paths that are already there. The magic system(s) that actually form are dependent on both the individual Shard and the individual planet... If Honor had Invested in Nalthis instead of Roshar, or if Endowment rather than Honor had come to Roshar with Cultivation, a different magic system would have resulted - different from both Awakening and (KR-style) Surgebinding. (Since both the Fused and ancient Ashyn use or used the Surges in some form, the hypothetical Endowment-linked Rosharan system probably would still have manipulated the Surges, but not through a bond with spren or an Honorblade.) On 7/26/2019 at 3:29 AM, TheFoxQR said: There is nothing inherent to all steel in the Cosmere that makes it give the power to push on metal or to store and retrieve weight. It only does these when combined with an Allomancer or Feruchemist spiritweb respectively. It is only in the context of a compatible Allomancer or Feruchemist spiritweb that steel can be exchanged and translated to give those powers. I don't think that's quite correct. The specific metals having their specific effects would have been set at the time Ruin and Preservation created the planet, not at the time Allomancy and Feruchemy were granted to people. Steel sitting around by itself doesn't have an Allomantic or Feruchemical effect, true, but (Bands of Mourning spoilers) Spoiler the Ettmetal-based Southern Scadrian technology (Primer cube/Allomantic grenade, Airships) shows that a human spiritweb isn't strictly necessary for those powers to manifest. 2
+TheFoxQR Posted July 28, 2019 Author Posted July 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: What I'm arguing for is that the "natural" paths for magic to follow are largely 'set' when a planet is created (or forms naturally, if any of the Cosmere planets did). The magic systems don't actually exist until a Shard Invests in the planet... but when a Shard does, its power "fits into" the paths that are already there. The magic system(s) that actually form are dependent on both the individual Shard and the individual planet... If Honor had Invested in Nalthis instead of Roshar, or if Endowment rather than Honor had come to Roshar with Cultivation, a different magic system would have resulted - different from both Awakening and (KR-style) Surgebinding. (Since both the Fused and ancient Ashyn use or used the Surges in some form, the hypothetical Endowment-linked Rosharan system probably would still have manipulated the Surges, but not through a bond with spren or an Honorblade.) What. With all due respect, I disagree. What gives you the idea that the powers have anything to do with the planet? ... why would it even work like that? How? Its not like investing in a planet makes cosmic blocks fall into place which will define all magic happening on the planet. Just... no. Investing in a planet isn't some special thing. It's just letting your investiture permeate the planet. When Brandon is mentioning natural pathways, he's just talking about how the laws of realmatic theory allow certain things to happen more easily than others. Hydrogen is extremely common in the universe, and so using it as fuel would be more natural for a star than... say uranium. It's just physics. We can't even begin to think what a star would look like if it wasn't using hydrogen as fuel at some point in it's lifetime. Just like physical human bodies are extremely complex structures, so would spiritual human spiritwebs. Just like physical human bodies have many different pathways for energy and food and a million different things to regulate inside them, so would there be spiritual analogues. There would be sub structures in those spiritwebs that allow people to manifest powers. This has nothing to with what planet a Shard is invested in, except maybe on a planet like Roshar where magic and ecosystem are heavily linked, by the nature of the ecosystem and the role investiture plays in it. Tell me, in your version what would happen if an allomancer went off world, and than Harmony pulled away from Scadrial and it just disappeared in a poof of cosmic realmatic smoke? Would Allomancy just stop existing? Would that Allomancer be suddenly powerless? What an allomancer can do by burning steel is a property of an allomancer, and not Scadrial or steel. It's his spiritweb that translates the structure of steel, exchanges it with some amount of preservation's investiture, and uses it to establish a connection with a metal object and than converts it into the energy needed to generate mutual repelling force. This has nothing to do with Scadrial or Preservation or Harmony. He can't stop this from happening, unless he surgically modifies said allomancer's spiritweb to remove this capability. Vin was special in the sense that she could short-circuit this entire stream and directly use raw power from preservation to power her allomancy. This is why Ruin sought her out. And even if I accept your argument it doesn't answer my original question. Honor invested in the planet long before Humans came to it. So did Cultivation. If the surge-pairs exist naturally because of the nature of the planet, and Honor's investment in it, why do they still show up only after he gives Honorblades to Heralds, and not before? 2 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: I don't think that's quite correct. The specific metals having their specific effects would have been set at the time Ruin and Preservation created the planet, not at the time Allomancy and Feruchemy were granted to people. Steel sitting around by itself doesn't have an Allomantic or Feruchemical effect, true, but (Bands of Mourning spoilers) This is literally what Brandon is getting into via Fabriels. The idea that when people do magic, the power is manifest through their spiritweb. However, this process can be artificially duplicated via physical constructs, and their potentially spiritual shadows. This is why Fabriels can also channel Surges, albeit in a limited way. A Fabriel channeling Gravitation will do so in extremely specific ways, whereas a Surgebinder binding Gravitation is a lot more flexible in channeling said Surge. But Fabriels can do a lot more than just channel Surges. This is similar to how both an eye and a mechanical camera both use the same properties of light and lenses, but an eye is significantly better at seeing under normal circumstances, because it's just better integrated with our brains. We could see was through eyes for the longest period of time. But technology got us through several generation of cameras, and now our understanding of the basic physics involved is sufficiently advanced for us to to build light based devices which extend our capabilities (nightvision, infra-red based heat maps, etc.) and do things beyond what our biological bodies can do. Fabriels in SA are like the first mechanical cameras. So is ettmetal tech on Scadrial. This will eventually happen everywhere in the Cosmere. This is the shift that will happen when it moves from Fantasy to Sci Fi. Relevant WoBs: Quote FirstSelector So, do you have a name, like an in-world name for a large magical construction, like the things that picks Elantrians? Brandon Sanderson That was why I invented the term "fabrial." It will become widespread eventually, as the term for meaning, kind of, magic-type devices in the cosmere. That's not what you call it right now, but you can start calling them all fabrials. FirstSelector But what about something that isn't, like-- I always imagined that Aona left, like, a device, a magical device running-- Brandon Sanderson I will have to RAFO that. Oathbringer San Francisco signing (Nov. 15, 2017) Quote Questioner How did you come up with The Stormlight Archive's gem magic/technology? Brandon Sanderson One of the things to keep in mind is I that developed this book before Mistborn was published. I do wonder if sometimes people are going to say, "Oh, he did metals before, and now he's doing crystals." But the thoughts arose quite independently in my head. You may know that there is a unifying theory of magic for all of my worlds--a behind-the-scenes rationale. Like a lot of people believe there's unifying theory of physics, I have a unifying theory of magic that I try to work within in order to build my worlds. As an armchair scientist, believing in a unifying theory helps me. I'm always looking for interesting ways that magic can be transferred, and interesting ways that people can become users of magic. I don't want just to fall into expected methodologies. If you look at a lot of fantasy--and this is what I did in Mistborn so it's certainly not bad; or if it is, I'm part of the problem--a lot of magic is just something you're born with. You're born with this special power that is either genetic or placed upon you by fate, or something like that. In my books I want interesting and different ways of doing that. That's why in Warbreaker the magic is simply the ability to accumulate life force from other people, and anyone who does that becomes a practitioner of magic. In The Way of Kings, I was looking for some sort of reservoir. Essentially, I wanted magical batteries, because I wanted to take this series toward developing a magical technology. The first book only hints at this, in some of the art and some of the things that are happening. There's a point where one character's fireplace gets replaced with a magical device that creates heat. And he's kind of sad, thinking something like, "I liked my hearth, but now I can touch this and it creates heat, which is still a good thing." But we're seeing the advent of this age, and therefore I wanted something that would work with a more mystical magic inside of a person and that could also form the basis for a mechanical magic. That was one aspect of it. Another big aspect is that I always like to have a visual representation, something in my magic to show that it's not all just happening abstractly but that you can see happen. I loved the imagery of glowing gemstones. When I wrote Mistborn I used Burning metals--metabolizing metals--because it's a natural process and it's an easy connection to make. Even though it's odd in some ways, it's natural in other ways; metabolizing food is how we all get our energy. The idea of a glowing object, illuminated and full of light, is a natural connection for the mind to make: This is a power source; this is a source of natural energy. And since I was working with the highstorms, I wanted some way that you could trap the energy of the storm and use it. The gemstones were an outgrowth of that. FAQFriday 2017 (Aug. 25, 2017) Edited July 28, 2019 by TheFoxQR
cometaryorbit Posted July 28, 2019 Posted July 28, 2019 1 hour ago, TheFoxQR said: What. With all due respect, I disagree. What gives you the idea that the powers have anything to do with the planet? ... why would it even work like that? How? There are a number of WOBs that say that it is based on the planet... Quote Kaimipono Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies? Brandon Sanderson The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms. Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008) Quote Questioner From what I understand, Ruin and Preservation create the world together, and they created humanity as copies of the original humankind. So how did they give Allomancy to Scadrial? Brandon Sanderson Yes. So the magic systems are kind of built into the setting and the world. And there are certain natural pathways that exist, in the same way there are certain natural pathways for them to create life. Which is my explanation for why life is so similar on all the different planets, is that they're following natural pathways, and these magics are kind of the same way. For instance, Lightweaving predates the Shattering of Adonalsium. A lot of these other things are suggestive of magics that existed before that were built around Adonalsium. They weren't 100% created by the Shards, but they also do have the Shards' influence on them. Skyward San Diego signing (Nov. 7, 2018) Quote Odium's_Shard Does the Spiritual power used in any given magic system come from the supporting Shard itself, or through it from the remains of Adonalsium and the Power of Creation? Brandon Sanderson From the Shard in most cases. But it's also often built into the world innately, and so the Shard (if someone is holding it) doesn't always have control over who can or cannot use the magic. 17th Shard Forum Q&A (Sept. 26, 2012) Quote Questioner I know I don't have a lot of di-Shardic worlds to deal with, but I notice a pattern on Scadrial of metals*inaudible*, kind of a focus *inaudible* of magic. And with Roshar, it's gemstones, it tends to be. Is that determined by the Shardworld or the Shards? Brandon Sanderson It's kind of one and the same. Idaho Falls signing (July 21, 2018) 1 hour ago, TheFoxQR said: And even if I accept your argument it doesn't answer my original question. Honor invested in the planet long before Humans came to it. So did Cultivation. If the surge-pairs exist naturally because of the nature of the planet, and Honor's investment in it, why do they still show up only after he gives Honorblades to Heralds, and not before? Because the system of KR-style Surgebinding, with its specific Surge pairs, was produced by the interaction of Honor and Roshar. Honor on a different planet, or a different Shard on Roshar, would produce a different system. It wasn't Honor's decision to make the system work that way - that was the only system that the combination of Honor + Roshar could produce. But while the potential for the magic system existed as soon as Honor Invested in Roshar, no one actually had the ability to access it until Honor handed out the Honorblades. (This isn't necessarily unusual. In Scadrial's early history there were no Allomancers either. And Awakening appears to be only a relatively few centuries old at the time of Warbreaker.) 5
+TheFoxQR Posted July 28, 2019 Author Posted July 28, 2019 5 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: There are a number of WOBs that say that it is based on the planet... We fundamentally interpret those in different ways, and I'm not sure I can convince you of my viewpoint, nor can you convince me of yours. To me this is actually re-enforcing my viewpoint rather than yours: Quote Kaimipono Allomancy is fueled by Preservation's body? How exactly does that work? And how does that interact with Atium—it's fueled by both gods' bodies? Brandon Sanderson The powers of Ruin and Preservation are Shards of Adonalsium, pieces of the power of creation itself. Allomancy, Hemalurgy, Feruchemy are manifestations of this power in mortal form, the ability to touch the powers of creation and use them. These metallic powers are how people's physical forms interpret the use of the Shard, though it's not the only possible way they could be interpreted or used. It's what the genetics and Realmatic interactions of Scadrial allow for, and has to do with the Spiritual, the Cognitive, and the Physical Realms. Condensed 'essence' of these godly powers can act as super-fuel for Allomancy, Feruchemy, or really any of the powers. The form of that super fuel is important. In liquid form it's most potent, in gas form it's able to fuel Allomancy as if working as a metal. In physical form it is rigid and does one specific thing. In the case of atium, it allows sight into the future. In the case of concentrated Preservation, it gives one a permanent connection to the mists and the powers of creation. (I.e., it makes them an Allomancer.) So when a person is burning metals, they aren't using Preservation's body as a fuel so to speak—though they are tapping into the powers of creation just slightly. When Vin burns the mists, however, she'd doing just that—using the essence of Preservation, the Shard of Adonalsium itself—to fuel Allomancy. Doing this, however, rips 'troughs' through her body. It's like forcing far too much pressure through a very small, fragile hose. That much power eventually vaporizes the corporeal host, which is acting as the block and forcing the power into a single type of conduit (Allomancy) and frees it to be more expansive. Hero of Ages Q&A - Time Waster's Guide (Oct. 15, 2008) You're literally ignoring all of that and just focusing on "of Scadrial" to mean the planet and not the person. You didn't even post most of the relevant bits. To me that phrase seems to imply Realmatic interactions like the Well of Ascension, the Pits of Hathsin, the mists, etc. Quote Questioner I know I don't have a lot of di-Shardic worlds to deal with, but I notice a pattern on Scadrial of metals*inaudible*, kind of a focus *inaudible* of magic. And with Roshar, it's gemstones, it tends to be. Is that determined by the Shardworld or the Shards? Brandon Sanderson It's kind of one and the same. Idaho Falls signing (July 21, 2018) Yes, a Shardworld technically is an extension of the Shard. For e.g., our eyes can only see a small slice of the entire electromagnetic spectrum. This is because that specific slice is the one that best propagates through the environment they evolved in - namely water and atmosphere. So, technically, our eyes are a function of the Earth. But that's because they developed to work in the conditions present there, in reaction to those conditions. On Scadrial, metals were investiture from Preservation and Ruin. So it just made more sense to use them for fuel. On Roshar, there are no plate tectonics, and so solid investiture structures which can channel and focus investiture along certain pathways have been generated by organic chemistry. This being a function of the planet is because of the nature of conditions on those planets, not something that automatically makes it so because the planet just exists. 5 hours ago, cometaryorbit said: Because the system of KR-style Surgebinding, with its specific Surge pairs, was produced by the interaction of Honor and Roshar. Honor on a different planet, or a different Shard on Roshar, would produce a different system. It wasn't Honor's decision to make the system work that way - that was the only system that the combination of Honor + Roshar could produce. But while the potential for the magic system existed as soon as Honor Invested in Roshar, no one actually had the ability to access it until Honor handed out the Honorblades. (This isn't necessarily unusual. In Scadrial's early history there were no Allomancers either. And Awakening appears to be only a relatively few centuries old at the time of Warbreaker.) To me, the idea that human spiritwebs on Scadrial were made keeping future Allomancy-Feruchemy in mind makes more sense than something inherent to the actual physical planet that facilitates it. While I agree with the words you put down about Honor-Roshar to an extent, I don't with the idea behind them.
cometaryorbit Posted July 28, 2019 Posted July 28, 2019 Yes, there's probably not much point in arguing this further. (I would point out, though, that I think it's less the physical planet and more its Cognitive and Spiritual aspects of the planet and the way the Shard's Investiture infuses and interacts with them, and Connects to human and/or mechanical users of the magic.) 1
Varenus Posted July 29, 2019 Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 18 hours ago, TheFoxQR said: To me, the idea that human spiritwebs on Scadrial were made keeping future Allomancy-Feruchemy in mind makes more sense than something inherent to the actual physical planet that facilitates it. While I agree with the words you put down about Honor-Roshar to an extent, I don't with the idea behind them. Quote Shards will begin to fuel magic when they settle on a world. Each Shard can do this differently, though much of the system is restricted by the world itself. Because of this, the Shard is able to directly interact with the users of the magic and provide the needed investiture. Ruin and Preservation's ability to fuel all the Metallic Arts is an example of this.[2] This is from the coppermind page on the Shards. Under the category titled Magic Generation. I hope this formats correctly as I am on mobile. The wiki interprets the WoB you guys discussed like this: Quote The types of magics that exist on a world depends on which Shards are present. If Endowment were to move to Scadrial, additional combinations of magics may form.[84][85] However, Shards did not create magic systems. Ruin and Preservation did not create the Metallic Arts.[86]Rather, magic is a natural function of the world, a Shard's intent, Realmatic interactions, and sometimes genetics.[2] Though magics are related to a Shard, that does not mean that the effect of a magic is in line with a Shard's intent. For example, Allomancy does things like Pushing and Pulling that don't bring to mind "Preserving" things. Rather, a Shard's intent determines how the magic is obtained, not its effect.[87] In Hemalurgy, the method of gaining magic is spiking and it is inherently destruction, but the effect of the magic actually enhances something else. (This is the more exact, confirmed statement of the Principle of Intent theory). The other WoB mentioned here is: Quote Agate I can guess two possible options for the kandra. 1. God Sazed endowed the gift of presence on the now mistwraiths. 2. Some of the kandra survived in the cave with the Terrisman and people of the city, along with the small mistwraiths, these are re-born with the spikes they pulled out during the resolution. I can imagine too that some kandra on assignment may have hidden in the shelters with the rest of humanity. Brandon Sanderson The kandra. Yes, they live. The people were smart enough, eventually, to replace their spikes. (And there were a couple who were on assignment who made it to storage caches.) However, there will likely never be any more of them, since Hemalurgy is required to make them. They are now some of the few people who can communicate directly with Sazed, who—like Ruin—can whisper to people most easily when they are connected to him via spikes. With some speculation, you can probably guess what kind of roles the kandra will end up playing in future books. Kaimipono On a broader level, is Hemalurgy officially dead, then? Or is it still extant in some Ruin-free (but still messy) form? (If it's gone, is there any imbalance since Preservation's magic power is kept and Ruin's isn't?) Brandon Sanderson Is Hemalurgy dead? No, not at all. It, like the other two powers, was not created by Ruin or Preservation, but by the natural state of the world and its interaction with the gods who created it. It still requires the same method of creation, but very few people are aware of how it works So, I would think that there is something inherent to the planet/world that shapes how the Shards’ interact with it and how magic systems form. Shards choose to invest in a planet. The Shard’s Intent decides how people access that power. The planet itself determines how that power is made manifest. Note that quote mentions genetics, so I imagine that people might be counted as part of the planet, so you are certainly correct in thinking that people’s thoughts and spiritwebs contribute to how a magic system is formed. Consider the planet to be the second filter by which the Shard’s Investiture is molded into a full magic system. The first filter is, of course, the intent of the Shard. Ruin and Preservation had an advantage in that they could alter the second filter. Honor and Cultivation must have had a harder time because it was not their planet. To think of a reason to justify this, consider that: 1) Remember, in the Cosmere, investiture, matter, and energy are interchangeable. Odium is unable to change text in the same way Ruin did on his planet. This is because Odium did not make Roshar and is unable to manipulate its matter. Odium’s inability to change text implies that when investiture is converted into matter, it remembers which shard it belongs to. 2) Roshar was made of Adonalsium’s investiture and upon his shattering all investiture already in the Cosmere was assigned to a Shard(there is a WoB that says this). Combining these facts, Roshar and all other Shard Worlds made by Ado must now be made of a jumble of all 16 shard’s essences. Which means that Shards that choose to settle on those planets must, by necessity, be limited in their ability to manipulate the planet as they are unable to change other Shards’ Investiture. By extension, the Shard loses some control over their magic system because they cannot change the second filter by which their investiture it turned into a magic system. To borrow the analogy of building a house, My interpretation is this: You are a billionaire who wants to renovate a grand and ancient library. You supply the money(the Shard’s Investiture). You hire an architect to turn your vision of the new library into something beautiful(the Shard’s intent). Then you hire an engineer to make sure the work is done correctly(the Shard World). Lastly, you need permission from the library’s owner to make the changes(not the shard’s own shard world). The only problem is that the architect had a separate idea of how the building should look, the engineer was physically incapable of making all the changes to the building that you wanted, and the owner forbade them form making changes to certain parts of the building. When they finally get finished the building bares little resemblance to your vision. Edited July 29, 2019 by Varenus
Recommended Posts